SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 292 - Mar/20/24

Mar/20/24 5:14:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have a great deal of respect for my colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands. However, I fundamentally disagree with her on this particular issue, because we have had 17 days of debate in the House, along with 27 days of debate in the Senate, and it is now back here. The last time this was up, on February 12, a concurrence motion derailed debate on this, so we could not actually even debate this bill. This is a bill on which we should have consensus. Everyone should come together. It should not offend anyone to be able to set up a national council for truth and reconciliation. If we are truly to move forward on reconciliation, we all need to come together on this. I find it troubling that we are unable to move forward. The comments by the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands really do not help. I have heard her on this issue over and over again, but Parliament also needs to govern at some point.

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Mr. Adam van Koeverden (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 5:15:20 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-29

Madam Speaker, a national council for truth and reconciliation is an essential step forward. It is right in line with the calls to action. I was very proud to have my first committee experience with the hon. minister, who was the parliamentary secretary at the time. We discussed the preambles to Bill C-29 in meetings. Actually, it is disappointing that we are still discussing it after four and a half years, when indigenous communities right across this country are relying on us for action. The Conservatives will use attacks to say we cannot get this done, while they simultaneously delay. I want to ensure that Canadians are aware of the fact that there are members of the House of Commons who claim that the government cannot get things like this done but simultaneously extend and prolong debate, complaining when closure is the necessary next step in order to get it done. Could my colleague, the hon. minister, speak to the importance of this for indigenous communities from coast to coast to coast?

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:16:25 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague is someone whom I have had the pleasure of working very closely with. I admire the work he does, especially on the fight against climate change. However, I want to take this opportunity just to talk about a couple of the other elements of the bill. This, essentially, would enable the establishment of a national council for truth and reconciliation. It would allow for an independent assessment of the work of the government on the 94 calls to action and the progress we make, along with annual reports, which are essentially a tool to keep governments accountable for what they have done and not done. I know the opposition sometimes asks us what we do, and there is no independent assessment of it. This would be an additional tool of accountability, one that all of us should actually be supporting for its quick passage. I look forward to having this passed today.

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Mr. Damien Kurek (Battle River—Crowfoot, CPC)

Mar/20/24 5:17:25 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-29

Madam Speaker, it is disappointing that the Liberals would impose time allocation on this. One of the real challenges that has been highlighted time and time again in Bill C-29 is that the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples, although acknowledged as a national indigenous organization, has been left out of the proposed council. The organization has been very vocal about the disappointment in that regard. While there have been continual calls to ensure that the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples is included in the council and the conversations surrounding Bill C-29, that organization has been specifically excluded. This means that many indigenous peoples across Canada, who are not necessarily represented by the other organizations that will have a seat at the table, are excluded. To the minister, very specifically: Why has the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples been excluded?

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:18:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this issue has come forward. The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples had a chance to make submissions at the Senate and the House of Commons parliamentary committees. An amendment to add it on as one of the members of the council, or to have a delegate from the organization, was considered by way of amendment. It was rejected. We are at a point right now where the final amendments put forward by the Senate are acceptable to the government, and we are recommending acceptance and passage. Therefore, I do not want to relitigate an issue that has already been considered in almost 60 hours of debate over 44 days.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge

Mar/20/24 5:19:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the minister implied that I had perhaps not read the truth and reconciliation report, which is not accurate, but I am just wondering whether he could tell us how many actions the Liberals completed last year, 2023, when it comes to truth and reconciliation.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:19:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have either completed or are in progress on 80% of the calls to action that relate to the federal government or are in the sole purview of the federal government. We have been working on the path toward reconciliation. We established, for example, the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. We are in the process of implementing the 231 calls for justice. We brought forward legislation recognizing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Last June, the minister of justice put forward the action plan that essentially lays out our government's response to implementing UNDA. We are working every step of the way with our partners to ensure that we are on the path of reconciliation, and I hope that the Conservative Party will join us in this journey.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Mar/20/24 5:20:53 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-15

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague just mentioned Bill C-15. I know that one of the first steps in Bill C-15 was actually to put in place an action plan. We are now very far out from the deadline of that, and I am wondering where the action plan is. I ask because every time I try to apply Bill C-15 to current legislation, the government keeps talking about an action plan, yet that should have been out already to make sure that all legislation going forward is consistent with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. I am wondering whether the hon. minister can update the House about where the action plan is at.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:21:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that is a very important question. Last June, the minister of justice did release an action plan. The challenge is that there are a number of different calls to action that need to be implemented, so there is a review of loss process that is being undertaken, which can take some time. I do want to note that the UN declaration has been transformational. If we look at the decision on Bill C-92 and the Supreme Court of Canada, it really establishes how much of an impact UNDRIP has had on Canadian law. I am absolutely certain, and I know my friend opposite believes in this fundamentally as well, that this is going to transform this country in a way that other things have not. Therefore, I do look forward to working with her in furthering UNDRIP and also on other issues that are of mutual importance.

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Ms. Elizabeth May

Mar/20/24 5:22:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, because we are able to have this conversation continue back and forth, the hon. minister seems to suggest that my opposition, in principle, to the use of time allocation would mean that this place would come to a standstill and no business could get done. I plead with all sides of the House to return to the use of the rules we have, so House leaders, when they meet, can have a legitimate and honest sharing of views as to how many members in the place are legitimately prepared to speak. Under our rules as they exist, although they are continually ignored, this would require that members speak without notes and that they not read a speech that is handed to them. If we were to do that, we would no longer have the situation where a government House leader looking at an opposition House leader would get a shrug of the shoulders and not be sure how many members they are going to put up, because everybody knows we can put up every last member if we hand them a speech to read. We have to make this place work to the purpose for which it was created: legitimate, honest, informed debate.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:23:48 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-29

Madam Speaker, I agree with my colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands. I do think we need to make Parliament work better. I do think that certain things we do sometimes, like all-night voting for example, are not good for our health. Unfortunately the process we have right now, the one that is not working sometimes, is prolonging bills that are very important to Canadians. Bill C-29 is such an example. We have had 58 hours of debate. This is almost unprecedented for legislation of this nature. I believe that everyone will be voting in favour. We have had multiple meetings at committee. At what point do we say that we have no other choice? I believe that point for me was on February 12, when it could have been disposed of with a vote. We had a concurrence motion, and it derailed the debate. There is definitely frustration on my end, but there is greater frustration for communities that have been waiting and have been demanding that we put forward and implement the TRC calls to action.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Mar/20/24 5:25:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to circle back, if I could, to the exclusion of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples. What is very disappointing from the minister's answer is he does not want to relitigate, which was his word, this concern, when according to Statistics Canada there are about 800,000, almost a million, indigenous people across Canada who would not be represented by the organizations on the council. With due respect to the minister, with regard to the 800,000 Canadians not represented by those on the council, does he suggest that it is not worth continuing the Conservative fight, at the very least, to ensure that those voices are included on the council for reconciliation?

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:26:07 p.m.
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The bill, Madam Speaker, calls for establishment of a council of between 9 and 12 members. Four seats would be reserved, and there would still be eight more seats fully open. Nothing would preclude members of CAP, for example, from seeking a seat there and being represented. Second, just to confirm, once a person were to become a member of the board, the allegiance would be to the council itself and not to individual organizations. That is typically how these things work. My suggestion to the member would be to advise members of CAP that they would be able to apply in an open and transparent process for an appointment to the council.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Mar/20/24 5:27:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I get a kick out of listening to Conservatives talk about and question the number of recommendations from the truth and reconciliation report that we have accomplished, given the fact that when the report was tabled, Stephen Harper would not even accept the recommendations in it. Now, suddenly, they are trying to purport themselves as being the champions for the calls to action and the implementation of them. It is wild beyond belief. My question comes on the heels of what our colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands was talking about. The reality is that now we have another situation where Conservatives are doing whatever they can to delay every piece of legislation, because unfortunately they do not come to this place with the objective of making lives better for Canadians. They come here with the objective of doing everything they possibly can to get in the way of the government and the parties that are trying to act responsibly. It is pretty clear that the bill will most likely pass unanimously, probably even with the support of the Conservatives, yet they still will not let the bill get to a vote. I empathize with the comments from the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, but the reality is that we just do not have support from the Conservatives to move forward on anything.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:28:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, what is really curious about this particular piece of legislation is that it would be an additional tool for accountability, through which the government of the day would be held to account. I am quite disappointed that the bill is being delayed, because, essentially, it would enable greater scrutiny of the work on reconciliation. I think that all of us should be held to a standard where we are accountable for the work that we do.

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Mr. Peter Julian

Mar/20/24 5:29:03 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think the Conservatives are being disingenuous on the issue. There is no doubt that this is important legislation. Their previous leader, Erin O'Toole, allowed legislation to pass unanimously, and since the member for Carleton has become leader of the Conservative Party, his intent seems to be to burn the House down. It is very unfortunate, because we have had 58 hours of debate and because the bill passed unanimously at third reading. I have the vote in my hands; 315 members voted for the bill at third reading. Not a single member voted against it, yet Conservatives are saying we should not proceed to a vote. It was passed, but they really want to stall more and block other pieces of legislation. That is tragically unfortunate, given the importance of truth and reconciliation. I want to ask my colleague why the Conservatives are trying to say to the Canadian public that there is a reason for blocking the bill, when they voted, as all other members did, in favour of it.

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Unanimously

Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:30:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is very curious to me. I do think that on issues of reconciliation, on issues involving the rights of indigenous people, there is a moral imperative for all of us to come together. This is a plea I want to make because I know sometimes we get sidetracked by politics, but this is as simple as it gets. This should not offend anyone. This is something that, ultimately, I do believe the Conservative Party will vote in favour of, but I think that obstructing this particular piece of legislation is a really bad sign of reconciliation. I do not think that something like establishing a national council for truth and reconciliation should be held up any longer. The first day of debate on it was September 21, 2022; that is almost two years ago.

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Mrs. Laila Goodridge

Mar/20/24 5:31:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate that the minister keeps talking about the number of hours of debate. I think it is really important to highlight the fact that we completed third reading in the House of Commons, the first time around, on December 1, 2022. The bill then went to the Senate for first reading that same day, then sat there, got debated in the Senate, and came back amended only on November 30, 2023. For the members opposite to say that Conservatives and our 15 Conservative senators, as amazing as they are, are somehow capable of holding up a bill of this magnitude is absolutely disingenuous and absolutely untrue. Frankly, it was not Conservative senators who were bringing forward all of the amendments; it was senators from the so-called independent Senate caucus, as well as many others. I would hate to let facts get in the way of a good story, but perhaps the minister needs to be more truthful when he is sharing things with Canadians.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/20/24 5:32:22 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-29

Madam Speaker, let me just illustrate a point. On February 12, there was scheduled debate on Bill C-29. That day, the Conservative Party moved a concurrence motion meant to derail the debate and derail a vote on Bill C-29. That is what I am talking about. This has been going on since September 2021, when we had the first debate on the bill. It is now closer to two years. It is time to move on. I do not think there is anything more to be added to the debate. Many aspects of it have been considered by committee. Very thoughtful conversations have been had in the Senate. It is back here for final approval. I encourage my colleagues to reflect on what they have done to obstruct the bill.

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Ms. Leah Gazan

Mar/20/24 5:33:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I actually find this really disingenuous from both sides. The Auditor General just spoke out about the Liberals' not investing enough in indigenous housing, calling the situation deplorable. On Monday I was in committee, and we were talking about child welfare. The Conservatives were in the committee trying to obstruct the study of Bill C-92 on reconciliation, on providing and upholding the right of indigenous people to regain our self-determination over matters impacting our children. They were trying to hold up a committee with a carbon tax motion and were calling it urgent, when we have kids being murdered, pipelines and MMIWG, and kids going missing through the child welfare system. I find it very difficult. We are talking about residential schools. There are lots of things the Conservatives can obstruct. I certainly hope that they are not using residential school survivors to obstruct a bill that needs to pass. If there is anything more scummy than that, it is obstructing the progression of lifting up the voices of residential school survivors.

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