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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 292

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 20, 2024 02:00PM
Context: House Hansard - 292 - Mar/20/24
Mrs. Laila Goodridge (Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, CPC)
  • Mar/20/24 10:36:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what is absolutely disgraceful is the member sitting here and spewing mistruths in this chamber and sowing disinformation. Frankly, I do not expect anything different from the member. What Ukraine needs right now is light armoured vehicles and rockets. What it needs right now—
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:36:33 p.m.
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The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader is rising on the same point of order.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)
  • Mar/20/24 10:36:36 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, all members in the chamber are honourable. I think many of the words the member used were borderline unparliamentary. I would just suggest— An hon. member: Oh, oh! Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: I heard what the member opposite said. I have also been listening to what he is calling—
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:36:56 p.m.
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We will just take a break here. The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan is rising on the same point of order.
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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)
  • Mar/20/24 10:37:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, members have been called to account before many times, on various sides, for suggesting that members of the House have sympathy with foreign authoritarian regimes. The member who just spoke made an outrageous, verifiably false and unparliamentary claim. He accused members of being part of a so-called pro-Putin wing. He was not called to order by you, Mr. Chair. Now the Liberal member is continuing to cast aspersions. Frankly, it is disgusting to see what the Liberals are doing here. They are trying to foment division when we should be trying to work together on this issue. I would ask you, Mr. Chair, to call these members to account for their unparliamentary language and their disgraceful conduct during this debate tonight.
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:38:00 p.m.
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The Speaker has ruled on this. He has mentioned that members should be judicious in how we are being recognized here in Canada. What we do here is seen across the world. Saying that one is part of a certain group is incorrect and, I would suggest, unparliamentary in this case. Therefore, I would ask the hon. member to hold back on the rhetoric a bit, rephrase and try to stay away from that. On the same point of order, the hon. parliamentary secretary.
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
  • Mar/20/24 10:38:43 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we have to be very careful that we do not start saying that members cannot say a political entity in the House is affiliated with another type of organization. That is often referenced in many different ways. I am just raising that. I do not believe the member has to apologize—
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:39:08 p.m.
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When someone in the House is saying that someone is standing with Putin, that is probably a little too far out on the edge, as the Speaker has ruled. The hon. member for Etobicoke Centre.
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Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)
  • Mar/20/24 10:39:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I think if you check Hansard, you will find that I did not speak about individual members. I said that there is a pro-Putin wing in the Conservative Party, and that is not—
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:39:40 p.m.
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I think that is exactly what has been brought up here.
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Mr. Garnett Genuis
  • Mar/20/24 10:40:16 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, he was saying exactly the same thing about the NDP, so he should have to apologize.
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:40:28 p.m.
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The member for Miramichi—Grand Lake was asked to apologize for saying something very similar to, I think, what the hon. member for Edmonton Strathcona said. The hon. member should retract that and apologize for it. Then we can go on and ask questions. The hon. member for Etobicoke Centre.
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Mr. Yvan Baker
  • Mar/20/24 10:40:39 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what I said was fact. What I said was not in breach of the Speaker's ruling— Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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Mr. Yvan Baker
  • Mar/20/24 10:40:42 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I will not apologize for speaking the truth.
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:40:42 p.m.
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I have asked you to retract it. Please retract it and apologize, or your evening is going to come to an end. The hon. member for Etobicoke Centre.
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:41:01 p.m.
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I will make this easy. The hon. member will not be recognized until he apologizes. We will go on to the next speaker, the hon. member for Jonquière.
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Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquière, BQ)
  • Mar/20/24 10:41:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would just like clarification, because this could set a regrettable precedent. If any member of this Parliament told NDP members that they are pro-Palestinian, would that member be silenced and accused of using unparliamentary language? If any one of us told other members that they are pro-Israeli, would that be cause for expulsion? We need to be careful about using ideologies. I certainly understand that, but sometimes we have to take controversial positions. Some members of the Conservative Party may have controversial views; indeed, one might say that some of them are pro-life and others are pro-choice. We would be playing a very dangerous game if we were to expel MPs for saying things that align with ideological leanings expressed in the House.
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:42:14 p.m.
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I believe the Speaker's ruling had to do with the hon. member for Miramichi—Grand Lake saying that the New Democrats support Hamas. That is very close to what the hon. member said this evening. I would therefore like the hon. member to withdraw his remarks. If he declines to do so, I will go to the next person on the list of those who want to speak. The hon. member for Edmonton Strathcona.
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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)
  • Mar/20/24 10:42:54 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I just want to illustrate that when the Conservatives accused members of the House of supporting Hamas, that was a very different thing, because Hamas is an illegal terrorist organization. We actually do not have that designation right now, and maybe we should, for the Russian Federation, and we certainly do not have it for the People's Party. I think we can say that many members of the Conservative Party have shown they are much closer in values to the PPC than they are to perhaps a progressive conservative movement. I think it is fair for the member to say that. However, when there is a member who calls somebody out for being associated with an illegal terrorist organization, that is a very different thing.
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The Chair
  • Mar/20/24 10:43:52 p.m.
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Ultimately, it is this: When something is causing disorder in the House, we have to find a mechanism in which to put that disorder aside so that we can continue the debate that is scheduled for this evening. The statement was causing tremendous disorder, just like when the hon. member for Miramichi—Grand Lake did something very similar. The hon. member for Drummond.
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