SoVote

Jun/3/24 4:30:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the reality is that a huge number of Canadians, the majority, are already covered by plans, either through the government or through their work. The government should be looking for and helping those who are slipping through the cracks or those who have no coverage or nearly no coverage. It should not be looking at subsidizing big corporations, so they do not have to provide it to their employees, or subsidizing big pharma for these things. It should look after those slipping through the cracks or those who have no coverage at all.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

Jun/3/24 4:30:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to follow up with my colleague about the question that I asked earlier and he repeated. It was about health transfers to the provinces and Quebec, which has the expertise in this area. I would like him to tell me how he interpreted the answer the member gave earlier, when he told me that Quebec has the expertise and that Canada wants to learn from that expertise. Meanwhile, the federal government wants to crush that system with a new pan-Canadian system they claim will have all the facts.

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Mr. Kelly McCauley

Jun/3/24 4:31:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with my colleague from the Bloc. The provinces are responsible for health care. They are mostly providing that already. I look at Alberta: $2,400 for patients with diabetes currently regularly using insulin; $320 for diabetic medications for patients at high risk of hypoglycemia; $160 for medications for patients at low risk of hypoglycemia; and monies for pumps. The provinces are, by and large, already filling a lot of those gaps. The government, if it wishes to spend the money, should deliver the money to the provinces that are delivering the services so they can fill those last few gaps, rather than creating a whole new level of bureaucracy and potential problems. The government cannot pay its employees. It has messed up the Canada Life switch for public service pharmaceuticals. Somehow, I do not think the government is going to be able to cover 40 million Canadians with a new plan out of the blue.

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Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

Jun/3/24 4:32:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Conservative member has been parroting talking points from the big pharmaceutical companies, and while he talks about the majority of Canadians already having coverage, people with diabetes who are covered are still spending thousands of dollars out-of-pocket for essential medication. Why does he not think those people deserve support?

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Mr. Kelly McCauley

Jun/3/24 4:33:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that is funny; I have not once parroted big pharma talking points. I did parrot the NDP, though, with a comment that it would force an election unless a comprehensive plan was delivered. Why is the member still propping up a government that promised a comprehensive plan but is just delivering two items?

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Mr. Brad Redekopp (Saskatoon West, CPC)

Jun/3/24 4:33:29 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-64

Madam Speaker, Liberals like to wrap themselves in the Canadian flag and proclaim themselves the great deliverers of health care in our country. It gets better. Allow me to read from former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin's 2004 election platform, which he infamously called a “fix for a generation”: “The priorities of a Liberal government begin with publicly funded, universally available health care. There is simply no other issue of such vital significance to Canadians. Liberals are proud of their founding role in making medicare a national priority.” That sounded pretty good. It continues on, stating, “The objective of a Liberal government will be to agree with provinces and territories on a national pharmaceuticals strategy by 2006.” I would say that was a fail. That was former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin's 2004 election platform: a “fix for a generation”. Needless to say, national pharmacare did not happen in 2006. In fact, it is a full 20 years, a full generation, later, and we have a health care system that has fallen apart under the current NDP-Liberal government in Ottawa. Having broken our publicly accessible universal primary care system, we now have a Liberal Prime Minister who is setting his eyes on taking a wrecking ball to yet another part of our health care system. Why? In this backward town we call Ottawa, where common sense goes to die, Liberal logic says that if it is not broken, they need to break it. What are the NDP-Liberals breaking today? It is the systematic dismantling of Canadians' access to their prescription drugs and treatments that are vital to their health. Just like 20 years ago, when that former Liberal prime minister brought disaster after disaster to primary health care, breaking it for a generation, if we follow our current NDP-Liberal Prime Minister down this path, our prescription drug system will forever be broken for generations to come. Rather than calling this a “fix for a generation”, I would say the fix is in. It is against this backdrop of our broken primary health care system that Canadians need to take a good, hard look at this legislation. Bill C-64, the so-called pharmacare bill in front of us today, is not what the NDP or the Liberals are advertising. It is neither the implementation of universal prescription drug coverage, nor will it improve the options for the two items it promises to cover: contraception and diabetes medications. Instead, it goes out of its way to destroy Canadians' already pre-existing insurance coverage, provincial drug plans and freedom of choice in medication when pursuing treatments. First, let us talk about federal-provincial relations. It is interventionist NDP-Liberal governments that use their control over the purse strings to force provinces into impossible decisions on patient care. Every time a premier tries to improve health care in their jurisdiction, the Liberal Prime Minister of the day will threaten to cut off health care funding to the province. Let us say a province wants to establish a few clinics offering MRIs outside of a hospital. To the Liberals, this is a mortal sin, and it cannot be allowed. Earlier this year, the federal Liberal Minister of Health fined my home province of Saskatchewan $1 million for allowing MRI clinics to operate in 2021. This was an innovative idea that increased the number of MRIs performed at a lower cost. It was brilliant, but not so fast. The NDP-Liberal government saw that as a mortal threat and fined the province. As these clinics are still functioning because they are common sense, we can expect the fines to continue. How ridiculous is that? The answer is as simple as it is sad. They actually do not want the system to get better. They do not want better outcomes for people. The NDP and the Liberals learned long ago that as long as the health care system is broken, they can campaign in elections as the great protectors and saviours of the system. Canadians are not going to fall for that again. Remember, this whole thing depends on the federal government convincing the provinces to go along with this scheme, something we already know the Liberals are not good at doing. Is this bill not doing something good? There is a second important thing to understand. This so-called pharmacare legislation will not bring universal prescription drug coverage to Canadians. Subsection 8(2) of the legislation, Bill C-64, under the heading “Discussions” says: The Minister must...initiate discussions...with the aim of continuing to work toward the implementation of national universal pharmacare. Let us break that down. What does the legislation require the minister to do? He must initiate discussions. That is fair enough. What do those discussions do? They have the aim of continuing to work towards a goal. Is that the big reveal? The minister is required to talk to some people to work towards an ideal. That sounds like every scam artist running a Ponzi scheme. Schmooze as many people as possible, and sell them on an idea that is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. This legislation is literally that: smoke and mirrors, conning Canadians into thinking there is a pot of prescription drug gold at the end of the rainbow. It is not prescription drug gold at the end of this legislation. In fact, every single Canadian would be just that much poorer if and when this gets implemented because it is a direct attack on Canadians' private health insurance and drug coverage. Did members know that, according to The Globe and Mail, there are 102 government drug programs operating today, along with 113,000 private insurance programs? Statistics Canada reports that 79% of Canadians currently have health insurance that includes drug coverage. The completely independent Parliamentary Budget Officer analyzed how much it would cost Canadian taxpayers if universal pharmacare were implemented. Their analysis is that pharmacare would cost about $40 billion every year. More importantly, that would be about $13 billion more than is being spent today. Let us keep in mind that pharmacare would replace existing public and private drug plans. Generally, private health care plans have better coverage than public ones. That would leave most people worse off. Therefore, overnight, four out of five Canadians would lose the prescription drug coverage they have through their employer, union, school, spouse, parent or provincial government plan. The federal government is paying for it, which means we are paying for it through increased taxes. Either way we look at this, it would result in a multi-billion dollar spending increase paid for by us. Those who would really benefit from this are private companies who provide insurance to their employees because today the companies are paying for private drug insurance. Once this program kicks in, they could cancel those programs because the government would be paying for it. That would save those companies significant dollars. Essentially, it would be a transfer of dollars from the federal government directly to those companies, which is paid for by us. Of course, the NDP-Liberals always love increasing taxes on unsuspecting Canadians. The other thing they love doing is limiting our choices to fit their narrow world view. There are two classes of drugs that the NDP-Liberals choose to cover in this so-called pharmacare bill: contraception and diabetes medications. Let us talk about diabetes. Most people know that insulin is a shot given to diabetics to control their blood sugar levels, as needed. However, do people know that metformin is a prescription diabetes pill that is taken once or twice daily to help the body control its blood sugar properly, reducing the need for insulin? Do people know that metformin is prescribed commonly as a treatment for people before they have diabetes? With a daily treatment of metformin, that person may never develop diabetes, and that daily metformin is a dirt-cheap alternative to very expensive insulin. It keeps pre-diabetics from developing the disease, and it costs pennies, compared to insulin. Metformin is not covered. What about Ozempic? We have all heard of Ozempic as the wonder weight-loss drug, but that is simply a side effect of being a diabetes drug that acts on the pancreas to control blood sugar. We also know that the best way to avoid type 2 diabetes is to be a healthy weight and to not be obese. Ozempic does that, but Ozempic is among the most expensive drugs on the market at about $75 a dose. Ozempic and metformin are used to prevent the disease of diabetes. Does that mean the NDP-Liberals are purposely going to deny treatment to those folks to prevent them from developing diabetes and are going to wait until they get the full-blown disease? How is that fair? Should that not be a decision for the patient and the doctor, and not for some bureaucrat in Ottawa? Innovative Medicines did a comparison of the access of drugs covered by private insurance versus those in public plans. The results are as shocking as they are sad. In Canada, private insurance covers twice as many drugs as provincial plans do. The bottom line is that this bill, Bill C-64, proposes to take away people's private drug plan. That is what single-payer means. The result is that private companies and anyone else currently providing drug coverage in a benefit plan would cancel those plans and would force Canadians onto the government plan. Canadians would be stuck with a slimmed-down plan and would be forced to pay out-of-pocket for the rest. After nine years, it is clear that this NDP-Liberal government simply is not worth the cost to Canadians' health. It has broken our primary health care system, and now with this so-called pharmacare legislation, it is setting out to break prescription drug coverage for 80% of Canadians who already have private insurance. Conservatives will not stand idly by while the NDP-Liberals systematically break our country. If we form government, we would undertake the task to fix the immense damage this costly coalition has done. We would axe the tax. We would build the homes. We would fix the budget, and we would stop the crime. Let us bring it home.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/3/24 4:43:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is concerning now. The Conservatives are trying to maybe do a bit of a backtrack, and they are saying that it is just not good enough. Depending on the depth of the speech, we will find that the Conservatives do not support public involvement at the national level, period. End of story. Let us realize that there are over 3.5 million people with diabetes. About 25% of them have reported that they are not taking all the medications they could or should be taking and that cost is a barrier. There are people with diabetes who will go blind and those who will have amputations. There are all sorts of issues. Why does the Conservative Party not support Canadians' receiving this particular benefit?

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Mr. Brad Redekopp

Jun/3/24 4:44:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we need to be very clear on what we are talking about here, which is a system that is proposing to blow up the existing network of private and public health care, pharmacare programs, of which 80% of Canadians already have coverage, at the expense of putting in a generic plan that everybody would have. As I said in my speech, many people would actually lose coverage. It would reduce what they could get. Certainly, there are people who are not covered, and I would agree that maybe there should be something to deal with those people. However, we should not have a single system that comes in and blows up everything to put in a universal, single-payer program. That makes no sense, and that is something I will not support.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Jun/3/24 4:45:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have already talked about the fact that Quebec has its own pharmacare plan and that the government refuses to include— Madam Speaker, am I disturbing my colleagues who are talking amongst themselves? May I ask my question?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/3/24 4:45:33 p.m.
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Order. I would ask members to take their conversations outside. I am sure that hon. members want to listen to the question. The hon. member for Beauport-Limoilou.

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Conversations

Mrs. Julie Vignola

Jun/3/24 4:45:48 p.m.
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Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I was saying, Quebec has a pharmacare program that may not be perfect, but it is already in place and public servants are managing it. My question is this. Is it not completely illogical to force a province that already has everything it needs to take care of such a system to pay taxes so that the Canadian government can create other positions and duplicate services already offered to Quebeckers, without bringing them any more benefits?

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Mr. Brad Redekopp

Jun/3/24 4:46:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for that great question, and it gets to the core issue, too, of the incompetence of the Liberal government in dealing with provincial-federal relations. We already know that provinces, like the Province of Quebec and others, have said that they are not going to sign onto this program because they have their own programs or they have different ideas. That is also part of the problem. We are going to end up with a patchwork system across the country, as has been mentioned before. I have no confidence that the current government can actually pull off the negotiations with different provinces to put in a program like this, let alone the fact that it is not a program worth putting in.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Jun/3/24 4:47:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Conservatives seem to fight against anything for women, whether it is menstrual hygiene products or, now, free contraception. This includes some of their backbenchers who are fighting against the right to access safe trauma-informed abortion care. Why are the Conservatives so anti-feminist and anti-women?

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Mr. Brad Redekopp

Jun/3/24 4:47:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would ask the member questions of my own. The NDP members wanted a complete pharmacare program. This is nowhere near that. How can the NDP members support this? How can they support the government? How can they keep propping up the incompetent Liberal government?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/3/24 4:48:00 p.m.
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It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, Carbon Pricing; the hon. member for Langley—Aldergrove, Mental Health and Addictions; and the hon. member for Victoria, Climate Change.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara (Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.)

Jun/3/24 4:48:28 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-64

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise in the House. Happy Monday. I hope that we and our respective families are doing well. Before I begin, I wish to say that I will be sharing my time with the member for Winnipeg Centre this evening. I am happy to speak today regarding Bill C-64, an act respecting pharmacare. It is another step for our government to make life more affordable for Canadians and provide the services that they need at this point in our term, and something that I am very proud of as a member of Parliament. Before I get into my formal remarks, this weekend I was reminded of the work we are doing in helping Canadians, including the wonderful residents that I have the privilege of representing in Vaughan—Woodbridge. Close to my constituency office is one of the regional roads in the city of Vaughan in York Region, Weston Road. Along Weston Road, there are three signs that are placed up by our local dentists, all accepting the Canadian dental care program. Much like what is contained in the contents of Bill C-64, an act respecting pharmacare, here we have another foundational piece that is assisting Canadians in my riding and across the country. We know that over two million seniors have been approved for the dental care plan, and that over 120,000 have actually visited dentists. I have had many conversations with the seniors in my riding over the weekend who have used the plan and are very happy about it. Along that vein, we are introducing a bill on pharmacare that will again help Canadians, 3.7 million of them, who have diabetes. We know that diabetes costs our health care system north of $30 billion a year. There are real savings in doing what we are doing and also taking preventative steps and providing contraceptives for Canadians. This bill sets out the principles that will guide our government's efforts to improve the accessibility and affordability of prescription medicines and support their appropriate use. It also underscores the importance of working together with provinces and territories to make national pharmacare a reality for Canadians. We can all agree that Canadians should have access to the right medicines at an affordable price regardless of where they live. That is what Bill C-64 does. It represents the first phase toward a national pharmacare, starting with the provision of universal single-payer coverage for a number of contraception and diabetes medications. This legislation is an important step forward to improve health equity, affordability and outcomes and has the potential of long-term savings to the health care system. In budget 2024, we announced $1.5 billion over five years to support the launch of national pharmacare and coverage for contraception and diabetes medications. I will highlight how important this is to Canadians and, specifically, how important access to contraceptives is to almost nine million women—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/3/24 4:51:48 p.m.
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Some individuals are having conversations, and I think they seem to forget that they are in the House of Commons right now. Their voices are starting to rise a little bit. I would ask them to take their conversations out for now, because I am sure that others want to hear the speech so that they can ask questions. The hon. member for Vaughan—Woodbridge.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/3/24 4:52:08 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-64

Madam Speaker, I was just saying how important contraceptives are to nearly nine million women in this beautiful country we live in, nearly one-quarter of the Canadian population. Contraception, also known as birth control, is used to prevent pregnancy, whether it is required for family planning, medical treatment or overall reproductive health. Improved access to contraception improves equality, reduces the risk of unintended pregnancies and improves reproductive rights. The single most important barrier to accessing contraception in Canada is cost. For example, the typical cost for select contraceptives for an uninsured Canadian woman is up to $25 per unit, or $300 per year, for oral birth control pills, and up to $500 per unit for a hormonal IUD, which is effective for five years. Some populations are disproportionately affected by the lack of coverage. Women, people with low incomes and young people, all of whom are more likely to work in part-time or contract positions, often lack access to private coverage. One study found that women from lower-income households are more likely to use less effective contraceptive methods or no contraceptive method at all. Although most drug plans list a range of contraceptive products, unfortunately only a fraction of Canadians are eligible for prescription birth control at low or no cost through a public drug plan. Bill C-64 would ensure that Canadians have access to a comprehensive suite of contraceptive drugs and devices, because improved access to contraception improves health equality. This means that every woman would have the ability to choose a contraceptive that is best for her, regardless of her ability to pay. This would contribute to her right to have bodily autonomy, which is what this government fully and fundamentally supports. In addition, ensuring access to a comprehensive suite of contraceptive drugs and devices at no cost to the patient can lead to savings for the health care system. British Columbia implemented this policy at the provincial level last April, and studies from the University of British Columbia suggest that no-cost contraception has the potential to save the B.C. health care system approximately $27 million per year. In the first eight months of that policy being in place, more than 188,000 women have received free contraceptives. Sexual and reproductive health is a priority for this government. This is reflected in Bill C-64 but, as I have mentioned, it also goes beyond that to other significant federal initiatives. As part of budget 2021 and budget 2023, the Government of Canada has continued to demonstrate its commitment to improving access to sexual and reproductive health care support, information and services for Canadians who face the greatest barriers to access; and to generating knowledge about sexual and reproductive health for health care providers. Since 2021, the sexual and reproductive health fund has committed $36.1 million to community organizations to help make access to abortion, gender-affirming care and other sexual and reproductive health care information and services more accessible for underserved populations. An additional $16.7 million has been provided to the Province of Quebec. Budget 2023 renewed the sexual and reproductive health fund until 2026-27. This initiative has funded 21 projects and is currently funding 11. The sexual and reproductive health fund is providing $5.1 million to the University of British Columbia contraception and abortion research team for a 25-month project from March 17, 2023, to March 31, 2025, entitled the “Contraception and abortion research team access project, advancing access to abortion for under-served populations through tools for health professionals and people seeking care”. As a segment of the project centres on contraception, the project has partnered with the Canadian Pharmacists Association to develop educational resources that support pharmacists prescribing contraception and assist pharmacists in understanding and tailoring their approach for indigenous and racialized populations, including youth and other underserved populations. With the support of the University of Toronto youth wellness lab, the project will also engage with family planning professionals, for example pharmacists, family physicians, obstetricians, gynecologists, nurses, midwives and social workers, to optimally design affirming and judgment-free services and contraception information care by, with, and for youth. Additionally, the medical expense tax credit has been included to include more costs related to the use of reproductive technologies, making conception more affordable. In conclusion, our government is committed to improving the sexual and reproductive health of all Canadians. This includes helping to ensure access to a comprehensive suite of contraceptive drugs and devices for all Canadians. By working with provinces and territories, and guided by the principles within Bill C-64, we can make this a reality. As we move forward, Liberals will continue to work with the provinces and territories, indigenous peoples and other stakeholders to ensure we get this right. The proposed Bill C-64 lays the groundwork for that process and would guide our collaboration. By passing this legislation, we could continue to build on the momentum we have already achieved. We are well on our way and I look forward to working with all parliamentarians to realize the next phase of Canadian health care. Whether it is dental care; the Canada child benefit; $10 day care and the national learning strategy; helping the almost 3.7 million individuals who have diabetes; or providing dental care for seniors, and now moving into another segment of the population, which I believe is individuals with disabilities, we are going to be there and have the backs of Canadians today and into the future.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Jun/3/24 4:58:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have said it before and we will say it again: Quebec is ahead of the game when it comes to pharmacare and many other areas. I would like to know whether my colleague is aware that in Quebec, a woman who has limited means and no insurance can go to a family planning clinic and get her birth control pills free of charge. Quebec is ahead in this area. It already has public servants working on pharmacare. Why not simply agree to a transfer and avoid duplicating the work of public servants for Quebeckers?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/3/24 4:59:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is very important to work with all of the provinces, including Quebec. Quebec was the first province in Canada to implement the early learning and child care program. That was a model used nationally in Canada. We have much to learn when working with the provinces and that is what we continue to do. In this case, as identified by the member, if the Province of Quebec has gone down this path, I wish to applaud it and we will continue to work with all the provinces in our country.

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