SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 331 - Jun/13/24

Jun/13/24 10:53:26 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, the Prime Minister was booed off the stage. Canadians know it is not true. All they have to do is look at their energy bills. They know that when we tax the farmers who grow the food, the truckers who ship the food and the grocers who sell the food, the food costs more. I like to call it trickle-down taxation. This debate has been raging for two years. The Prime Minister gets up and says that Canadians get more rebates. The PBO says not so fast. When we consider the trickle-down economic effects, Canadians pay more. That is the truth, but do not take it from me. I know the members opposite will not take it from me. We do not even have to take it from the Parliamentary Budget Officer. Members should take it from the Prime Minister. His own deputy minister of Environment did the analysis. He crunched the numbers. He sent the numbers to the PBO, and even under the threat of a gag order, the PBO spoke truth to power. He said in committee, “It confirms the report that we have published...That's why I'm comfortable with what we've already published.” The Prime Minister, who says he is open by default, knows the truth, that Canadians pay more. He has hidden the facts, stonewalled the opposition and gaslit Canadians for too long. It is time to end the carbon tax cover-up, and that brings me to the point of this motion. We are asking: That an order of the House do issue to the government for a copy of the government's economic analysis on the impact of the federal fuel charge and the output-based pricing system referenced in the response to the Parliamentary Budget Officer's information request...provided that it shall be laid upon the table, in both official languages and without redaction, no later than Monday, June 17, 2024. We are asking the Prime Minister to live up to his own words and to be open by default. It is time to end the carbon tax cover-up and let the people know the truth.

364 words

Trickle
Fuel

Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Jun/13/24 10:55:31 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, this is the second day in a row that Conservatives are having a bad day. The reality is that yesterday we saw them fumble all over the place. We saw the Leader of the Opposition take all the questions away from his backbench so that he could pick a fight with the Deputy Prime Minister— Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

63 words

Deputy

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/13/24 10:55:51 a.m.
Watch

Order, please. Again, I want to remind everyone in the House to please be respectful when somebody else has the floor. The hon. deputy government House leader has the floor.

30 words

Floor
Deputy

Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Jun/13/24 10:56:04 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, what we have learned, what the member should have learned, although he probably would have just received the information moments ago, is that if we actually look at the data, and the data is holistic and is all the data the PBO received, it tells us two very important things. The first thing it tells us is that we have reduced emissions by 25 million tonnes per year, and our reduction of emissions is continuing to increase. The second thing it tells us, point blank and very clearly, if we read the data, is that eight out of 10 Canadians get back more than they pay. I have actually done the math on what I pay versus what I get, and I know I get more. I am wondering if the member has done the math on the rebate he receives.

143 words

Mr. Marty Morantz

Jun/13/24 10:57:06 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I have to say that hearing that that member has done the math does not give me a lot of comfort. The reality is, I wish he would give us the information he is talking about. The CBC's access to information request was denied. The Liberal government released pieces of information that supports its narrative. It did not release all of the information. I maintain that the carbon tax cover-up continues. That report and that data, all of it needs to be tabled in this House now.

91 words

Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Jun/13/24 10:57:46 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, the motion we have been presented with today calls for an economic analysis of the carbon tax. I would submit, however, that what is needed is a far more macroeconomic analysis of the climate change question. This should include, for example, the costs of climate inaction, particularly the increase in insurance premiums and the health costs associated with pollution-related risks. This is nowhere to be found in the Conservatives' motion, however. I would like to know whether this is because, according to the Conservatives, there is no cost associated with climate inaction.

95 words

Mr. Marty Morantz

Jun/13/24 10:58:26 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, while I appreciate the question from the member, what we are talking about here today is a very fundamental obligation of a government to the people. That obligation is to always tell them the truth, and this motion is trying to get at the truth. It is time for the government to stop stonewalling Canadians, stop gaslighting Canadians and tell us what the data says. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said it confirms his results. Where is that data? Bring it here. Table it right now.

87 words

Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Jun/13/24 10:59:01 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, once again, we have an “axe the facts” day. I want to know some facts. I want to know why the leader of the Conservative Party is avoiding getting security clearance at a time of foreign interference. I want the facts on that, instead of another day where the Conservatives spin and axe those facts.

59 words

Mr. Marty Morantz

Jun/13/24 10:59:34 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I am sure it says in the Standing Orders somewhere that the question should be about the motion. I will leave that question for another day.

28 words

Mr. Pat Kelly (Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC)

Jun/13/24 10:59:53 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, does the member have any explanation for the reflexive secrecy? How on earth could it possibly come to the Parliamentary Budget Officer having to resort to ATIPing the government to get information from them? Secrecy by default is the Liberal government's M.O. Does the member agree?

50 words

Mr. Marty Morantz

Jun/13/24 11:00:25 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I do agree with the member's statement. The reality is that the truth does not help the Liberals. The Liberal government has been lying to Canadians for two years. It is a tangled web that gets woven when it lies to Canadians for two years, and its own data comes out and shows that it has been lying—

62 words

Lies
Lying

Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Jun/13/24 11:00:53 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. He is specifically saying that members of this House are lying. He cannot say that.

24 words

Lying

Mr. Pat Kelly

Jun/13/24 11:01:03 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, on this point of order, I listened very carefully to the member, and he did not accuse a member of Parliament of lying, which would be against the rules. He pointed out that the government has not told the truth, and the government has lied in its—

50 words

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/13/24 11:01:33 a.m.
Watch

I think I have heard enough on the point of order. I would just remind members not to use the word “lying” in the House. It causes disorder. This has clearly caused disorder. I would ask the hon. member to rephrase his response. The hon. member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley.

57 words

Mr. Marty Morantz

Jun/13/24 11:01:50 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, that is all fair, but the truth is that the Liberal government has not been telling the truth to Canadians. The Prime Minister has misled Canadians for years. The Liberals have data that shows he has been misleading Canadians. That is what this is about. The Liberals need to come clean. They need to give out all the data now so Canadians know the truth about the carbon tax.

71 words

Misleading

Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Environment and Climate Change, Lib.)

Jun/13/24 11:02:16 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I would like to share my time with the member for Surrey Centre. This morning, Environment and Climate Change Canada published data provided to the Parliamentary Budget Officer on carbon pollution pricing relative to the national and provincial gross domestic product for the years 2022-30. Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), I am happy to table this data in the House, along with a Statistics Canada study called “Aperçu de l’incidence des tendances météorologiques extrêmes au Canada sur la rentabilité de l’assurance des propriétaires et les consommateurs”; as well as another report, by the Canadian Climate Institute, called “Damage Control: Reducing the costs of climate impacts for Canada”. While I am at it, since Canada introduced its first-ever nature accountability act this morning, only the second country in the world to do so, I would also like to table “Toward a 2030 Biodiversity Strategy for Canada: halting and reversing nature loss”.

176 words

Mr. Charlie Angus

Jun/13/24 11:03:27 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of order. I appreciate the member is tabling documents that we have not had a chance to see, but I will accept them. However, would the member table the documents on how much the toll fees for TMX are going to be and how much taxpayers are expected to cover off?

59 words

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/13/24 11:03:59 a.m.
Watch

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay's request that the minister table a report is not really a point of order; it is more of a point of debate. The hon. minister knows that he can table reports at any time, so there is not an issue with his tabling reports. The hon. Minister of Environment and Climate Change.

61 words

Hon. Steven Guilbeault

Jun/13/24 11:04:23 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, it is important to recognize that the data published today does not represent a comprehensive economic overview of the impacts of carbon pricing. Instead, it is background data related to a specific request from the PBO, which was then used to develop some of its analysis. The Government of Canada has a collaborative relationship with the Parliamentary Budget Officer. It always has collaborated and always will collaborate fully with the PBO's requests, including by providing the PBO with all specific documents and information that respond to its requests. It should be recognized that the Parliamentary Budget Officer plays an important role in our democratic institutions. He assists all parliamentarians, be it in their day-to-day work or in long-term research, in order to enhance the quality of parliamentary debate and to promote greater transparency and budgetary accountability. Unlike the Conservatives, who have a history of muzzling scientists, on this side of the House we value science. Environment and Climate Change Canada estimates that the fuel charge and industrial carbon pricing system together will account for almost 80 million tonnes, Mt, of greenhouse gas pollution reduction in 2030, compared to what would have happened without the carbon pricing. That represents about one-third of the currently projected total emission that will result from various actions being undertaken pursuant to the 2030 emissions reduction plan. If members take the time to look at the data that is being tabled today, that was requested for us by the PBO, they will see that according to the PBO we know that greenhouse gas emissions have already gone down by 25 million tonnes per year because of carbon pricing. A full economic assessment of carbon pricing cannot be done without considering the benefits of reducing pollution and the cost of not taking action, which is something, unfortunately, that the Conservative Party continues to ignore. Currently, climate change costs Canadian households an average of $720 a year and is set to rise to at least $2,000 a year by 2050. Canadians are already feeling the cost of climate change through losses to communities and livelihoods from wildfires, floods and hurricanes. To estimate the economic benefit of emissions reduction, the Government of Canada uses a value known as the social cost of carbon. It quantifies the damages at $294 per tonne of carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere in 2030. Canada's current social cost of carbon is the same value used by the United States government. Using that metric, the avoided cost for climate change in the year 2030 associated with the projected emissions reduction benefit of carbon pricing is about $23.1 billion per year. The social cost of carbon analysis is a core part of climate policy assessments used by many countries, as it reflects the reality of the growing impacts of climate change on current and future generations and is a standard methodology internationally recognized for estimating the benefits of reducing emissions. Abandoning carbon pricing without replacing it with other actions would forgo those benefits, and replacing it with more costly policy measures would significantly and unnecessarily increase the cost to Canadians, which is another thing that the Parliamentary Budget Officer has publicly recognized a number of times. In fact, a report from the Ecofiscal Commission concluded that carbon pricing would grow Canadians' incomes on average by $3,300 in 2030 relative to an alternative policy approach. The increased costs of climate change are well documented. For example, the Canadian Climate Institute document I referenced earlier tells us that by 2030, the annual costs of climate change impacts on Canada's GDP will be in the order of $35 billion. What is more, numerous studies have shown that the cost of inaction is far higher than the cost of implementing measures to combat climate change.

639 words

Mr. Gérard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC)

Jun/13/24 11:08:44 a.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for his commentary and remarks, which I greatly appreciate. A little later I will get back to the tabling of the documents, but basically, we feel that the documents released this morning are only partial. They are not complete, and they do not get to the bottom of the matter. That is why we often ask the minister to tell us precisely what the true effect is of the carbon tax in terms of directly reducing greenhouse gas emissions. This is what we would like to know. As for the real effect and the effectiveness of the carbon tax, I would like to table a document. Since the member tabled a number of documents, I am sure he will not mind if I table in the House a document entitled Climate Change Performance Index, or CCPI. As he knows very well, this document was presented at the last COP, which he attended. According to the CCPI, after nine years of this Liberal government, Canada ranks 62 out of 67 countries for greenhouse gas emissions. The Liberal policies are not working.

186 words