I’ve got two young people participating in the 2023 Legislative Assembly of Ontario: Zainab Mohammad and Shlok Panchal. Welcome to Queen’s Park. I’ll see you later tonight.

And we’ve got Maya O’Brien, who is now a legislative page here at Queen’s Park for the next few weeks.

Welcome, everyone.

Mr. Clark moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 63, An Act respecting the adjustment of the boundary between the City of St. Thomas and the Municipality of Central Elgin / Projet de loi 63, Loi concernant la modification des limites territoriales entre la cité de St. Thomas et la municipalité de Central Elgin.

Mr. Cuzzetto moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 66, An Act to proclaim Heart Valve Disease Awareness Day and Heart Valve Disease Awareness Week / Projet de loi 66, Loi proclamant la Journée de sensibilisation à la cardiopathie valvulaire et la Semaine de sensibilisation à la cardiopathie valvulaire.

Today we have a guest from the greatest riding in Ontario, the great riding of Brampton North: my dear friend and the founder and publisher of Road Today. His daughter Saanvi is in model Parliament here today. Please give a warm welcome to my friend Manan Gupta. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Thanks, Speaker. The proposed legislation, the St. Thomas-Central Elgin Boundary Adjustment Act, 2023, will help secure new investment opportunities for a land site that has the potential to create thousands of new jobs in southwestern Ontario. We’re proposing to move the site, which currently straddles two municipalities, into one municipality, St. Thomas. This would reduce red tape and help ensure the site is shovel-ready for future investment by helping to ensure that all needed permits and site changes can be approved faster. The proposed actions show that the government is ready and willing to take the steps needed to compete in the global marketplace for the jobs and investment Ontario needs.

MPP Wong-Tam moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 64, An Act to proclaim Chosen Family Day / Projet de loi 64, Loi proclamant le Jour de la famille choisie.

I want to thank the member for the question. Our thoughts continue to be with the victims, the families and friends and all those impacted by the tragedy.

Everyone has a right to feel safe in their own home and their own community, free of intimidation and the threat of violence. The Ministry of the Solicitor General has provided an interim response to the Office of the Chief Coroner for Ontario. We will continue working across government to provide updated responses in advance of the anniversary date of the verdict’s release. This will allow the time needed to continue to carefully review and consider recommendations, provide a whole-of-government response and ensure meaningful steps can be identified and taken to address these issues. Mr. Speaker, we are going to get it right.

To reply, the Solicitor General.

The House recessed from 1208 to 1500.

First reading agreed to.

First reading agreed to.

First reading agreed to.

First reading agreed to.

Again, I want to thank my honourable colleague for the question. In addition to the record purpose-built rental starts that we had last year, our latest piece of legislation, More Homes Built Faster Act, offers incentives for the construction of more rental units by reducing development fees: 25% on three-or-more-bedroom units, a 20% discount on two-bedroom units and a 15% discount on one-bedroom units.

To further increase rental supply, we also introduced as-of-right policies in our most recent bill to allow for more units to be constructed on existing residential lots. Other legislation allows for basement apartments, garden houses or main residences to have up to three rental units without obtaining additional building permits or paying any additional development fees.

Ontarians deserve to have affordable options when it comes to housing, and as we’ve said before, we’re going to continue fighting for every Ontarian to make sure they do in this province.

Thank you to the Associate Minister of Housing for the answer. In the same report, published by Toronto Regional Real Estate Board, the market outlook for 2023 emphasizes the need for more rental supply to keep up with rising demands. Rental vacancy rates are projected to fall and competition between rental households will increase in 2023.

Owning or renting a home provides a sense of place and pride in community. It offers individuals and families economic security for decades, even during turbulent times. With the team we have at the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing, as was just mentioned by the associate minister, I have a lot of confidence that we can build more housing that people will be able to access. But I want to ask the associate minister once again, what other approaches is our government implementing to address the rental shortage, now and for the future?

I want to express my appreciation to the member opposite for the amazing advocacy that he shares, not only on behalf of Brant county farmers, but also ginseng growers.

In the fall of 2021, I went into that region of Ontario to visit, first-hand, ginseng growers to see how the pandemic had impacted their markets at a global level, and we were very quick to act. It was our government, under the leadership of Premier Ford and my ministry team, that came together with our ginseng growers to introduce an industry-led pilot program that ultimately led to stabilizing this particular industry.

I’m really pleased to share with you that, most recently, we participated in a trade mission to both Japan and Vietnam, and it was in Vietnam where we secured three specific ginseng MOUs. We had the Ontario Ginseng Growers Association sign an MOU with the Vietnamese Pharmaceutical Association, and we also had a local Ontario ginseng company sign additional MOUs, with business-to-business opportunities lying ahead of them.

So a bright future lies ahead for not only ginseng growers, because they have a government that stands with them and understands agricultural and market issues, but they also have a government that believes that it’s important to stand with them as we build back our markets around the world.

I have a petition to raise social assistance rates.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontario’s social assistance rates are well below Canada’s official Market Basket Measure poverty line and woefully inadequate to cover the basic costs of food and rent;

“Whereas individuals on the Ontario Works program receive just $733 per month and individuals on the Ontario Disability Support Program receive just over $1,169 per month, only 41% and 65% of the poverty line;

“Whereas Canada’s inflation rate in January 2022 was 5.1%, the highest rate in 30 years;

“Whereas the government of Canada recognized through the CERB program that a ‘basic income’ of $2,000 a month was standard support required by individuals who lost their employment during the pandemic;

“We, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to increase social assistance rates to a base of $2,000 per month for those on Ontario Works and to increase other programs accordingly.”

I will sign this petition and give it to page Wyatt.

I have been receiving a lot of petitions by mail entitled “Protect the Greenbelt.” Here is one that was signed by Dawn and Beth Richardson of Oshawa, among others.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Bills 23 and 39 are the Ford government’s latest attempt to remove protected lands from the greenbelt, allowing developers to bulldoze and pave over 7,000 acres of farmland in the greenbelt;

“Whereas Ontario is already losing 319.6 acres of farmland and green space daily to development;

“Whereas the government’s Housing Affordability Task Force found there are plenty of places to build homes without destroying the greenbelt;

“Whereas Ford’s repeated moves to tear up farmland and bulldoze wetlands have never been about housing, but are about rewarding PC donors and making the rich richer;

“Whereas green spaces and farmland are what we rely on to grow our food, support natural habitats and prevent flooding;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately stop all plans to remove what has long been protected land from the greenbelt, pass the NDP’s Protecting Agricultural Land Act, and protect irreplaceable farmland in the province of Ontario.”

Of course, I support this petition wholeheartedly. I will affix my signature and send it to the table with Paige.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontario has one of the most dedicated and highly trained health workforces in the world. Over 60,000 new nurses and 8,000 new doctors have registered to work in Ontario; and

“Whereas hiring more health care professionals is the most effective step to ensure Ontarians are able to see a health care provider where and when you need to; and

“Whereas starting in spring 2023, the government will expand the learn and stay grant and applications will open for eligible post-secondary students who enrol in priority programs, such as nursing, to work in underserved communities in the region where they studied after graduation. The program will provide up-front funding for tuition, books and other direct educational costs; and

“Whereas with new as-of-right rules, Ontario will become the first province in Canada to allow health care workers registered in other provinces and territories to immediately start caring for you, without having to first register with one of Ontario’s health regulatory colleges. This change will help health care workers overcome excessive red tape that makes it difficult for them to practise in Ontario;

“Whereas we are investing an additional $15 million to temporarily cover the costs of examination, application, and registration fees for internationally trained and retired nurses, saving them up to $1,500 each. This will help up to 5,000 internationally educated nurses and up to 3,000 retired nurses begin working sooner to strengthen our front lines;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To urge all members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario continue to build on the progress of hiring and recruiting health care workers.”

I will sign this and provide it to page Vedant.

My petition is entitled “Petition to Raise Social Assistance Rates.” It reads:

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontario’s social assistance rates are well below Canada’s official Market Basket Measure poverty line and far from adequate to cover the rising costs of food and rent: $733 for individuals on OW and soon $1,227 for ODSP;

“Whereas an open letter to the Premier and two cabinet ministers, signed by over 230 organizations, recommends that social assistance rates be doubled for both Ontario Works (OW) and the Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP);

“Whereas the recent small budget increase of 5% for ODSP still leaves these citizens well below the poverty line, both they and those receiving the frozen OW rates are struggling to live in this time of alarming inflation;

“Whereas the government of Canada recognized in its CERB program that a basic income of $2,000 per month was the standard support required by individuals who lost their employment during the pandemic;

“We, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly to double social assistance rates for OW and ODSP.”

I fully support this petition. I will affix my signature and deliver it with a page to the Clerks.

I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

“Whereas Ontario has one of the most dedicated and highly trained health workforces in the world. Over 60,000 new nurses and 8,000 new doctors have registered to work in Ontario; and

“Whereas hiring more health care professionals is the most effective step to ensure Ontarians are able to see a health care provider where and when you need to; and

“Whereas starting in spring of 2023, the government will expand the learn and stay grant and applications will be open for eligible post-secondary students who enrol in priority programs, such as nursing, to work in underserved communities in the region where they studied after” they graduate. “The program will also provide up-front funding for tuition, books and other direct educational costs; and

“Whereas with new as-of-right rules, Ontario will become the first province in Canada to allow health care workers registered in other provinces and territories to immediately start caring for you, without having to first register with one of Ontario’s health regulatory colleges. This change will help health care workers overcome excessive red tape that makes it difficult for them to practise in Ontario;

“Whereas we are investing an additional $15 million to temporarily cover the costs of examination, application, and registration fees for internationally trained and retired nurses, saving them up to $1,500 each. This will help up to 5,000 internationally educated nurses and up to 3,000 retired nurses begin working sooner to strengthen our front lines;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To urge all members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario continue to build on the progress of hiring and recruiting more health care workers.”

I fully endorse this petition, will sign it and give it to page Adam.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontario has one of the most dedicated and highly trained health workforces in the world. Over 60,000 new nurses and 8,000 new doctors have registered to work in Ontario; and

“Whereas hiring more health care professionals is the most effective step to ensure Ontarians are able to see a health care provider where and when you need to; and

“Whereas starting in spring 2023, the government will expand the learn and stay grant and applications will open for eligible post-secondary students who enrol in priority programs, such as nursing, to work in underserved communities in the region where they studied after graduation. The program will provide up-front funding for tuition, books and other direct educational costs; and

“Whereas with the new as-of-right rules, Ontario will become the first province in Canada to allow health care workers registered in other provinces and territories to immediately start caring for you, without having to first register with one of Ontario’s health regulatory colleges. This change will help health care workers overcome excessive red tape that makes it difficult for them to practise in Ontario;

“Whereas we are investing an additional $15 million to temporarily cover the costs of examination, application, and registration fees for internationally trained and retired nurses, saving them up to $1,500 each. This will help up to 5,000 internationally educated nurses and up to 3,000 retired nurses begin working sooner to strengthen our front lines;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To urge all members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario continue to build on the progress of hiring and recruiting health care workers.”

Speaker, I endorse this petition and will give it to page Maya.

Resuming the debate adjourned on February 22, 2023, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 60, An Act to amend and enact various Acts with respect to the health system / Projet de loi 60, Loi visant à modifier et à édicter diverses lois en ce qui concerne le système de santé.

This petition is entitled “Stop Ford’s Health Care Privatization Plan.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontarians should get health care based on need—not the size of their wallet;

“Whereas Premier Doug Ford and Health Minister Sylvia Jones say they’re planning to privatize parts of health care;

“Whereas privatization will bleed nurses, doctors and PSWs out of their public hospitals, making the health care crisis worse;

“Whereas privatization always ends with patients getting a bill;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately stop all plans to further privatize Ontario’s health care system, and fix the crisis in health care by:

“—repealing Bill 124 and recruiting, retaining and respecting doctors, nurses and PSWs with better pay and better working conditions;

“—licensing tens of thousands of internationally educated nurses and other health care professionals already in Ontario, who wait years and pay thousands to have their credentials certified;

“—making education and training free or low-cost for nurses, doctors and other health care professionals;

“—incentivizing doctors and nurses to choose to live and work in northern Ontario;

“—funding hospitals to have enough nurses on every shift, on every ward.”

I couldn’t agree with the petition more. I’ve affixed my signature to it and will hand it to Mary for the table.

Bill 60 is one huge step towards decimating a program that defines us as Canadians and Ontarians: medicare, a program that makes sure that care is based on your needs, not on your ability to pay. What we are doing right now will be almost impossible to undo. Once the private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations have set up shop in Ontario, they will not leave. It doesn’t matter what the needs will be. If the backlog—they will continue to be there. We are seeing, by the actions of this government, the beginning of the end of medicare. I’m really troubled by that.

When we talk about medicare, what we have here in Canada, in Ontario, is a single-payer, publicly funded health care system. The one payer is the government of Ontario, which pays for medically necessary care that we get in our hospitals with doctors, with physicians. This is what medicare is all about. Medicare is about, if you go to the hospital, it doesn’t cost you anything; if you go to see a physician, it doesn’t cost you anything. That’s all. Everything else—long-term care, home care—not part. Medicare is about hospitals and physicians.

Bill 60, the bill we’re debating this afternoon, is about to change all of this because it will change who delivers that care. Right now, surgeries are mainly done—99% of surgeries are done in our hospitals, where you don’t pay for care. They’re about to change this.

People often get a bit confused as to what’s public and private and all this. There are four types of providers in Ontario. The first one is the publicly owned facilities. If you think of a community health centre, an Aboriginal health access centre, a nurse practitioner-led clinic—those are publicly owned facilities. They deliver the care in a publicly owned facility.

The second one is what we call the privately owned, not-for-profit community. Those are all 152 hospitals in Ontario. There are four private hospitals that predate medicare. The rest of them are all not-for-profit facilities, and they are most of the hospitals that all of us know.

The third type is a physician-owned small business. This is what most doctors’ offices look like. They pay rent. They hire a secretary and maybe a nurse to work with them. They will look after 1,000 or 2,000 patients. They are a privately owned small business. The physician is the owner of the business, and the physician provides the care to the patient. And you will remember, Speaker, that because it is a physician’s service, it is free for us to use.

The fourth kind of delivery is what we call private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations. Once you bring in investor-owned corporations, you change everything, because—they don’t have any patients’ roster to them or anything—they are there for one reason: They are there to make money.

To build a surgical suite in Ontario is not cheap, have no doubt. It’s not something you and I could do—I don’t know about you, but it’s not something I could do. It takes millions of dollars to build a surgical suite.

I can tell you right now, there are private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations that are biting at the bit to come and invest those millions of dollars in surgical suites in Ontario. Why? Because they can guarantee their investors double-digit returns on their investment. We’re not talking about 11%, 12% returns; we are talking about returns in the 20% range and the 30% range every single year. They are willing to put up those millions of dollars ahead because they will make back those millions—and those hundreds of millions—really, really quickly. How do they do that? They do that by upselling. They do that by using the power differences in the relationship—when you go see somebody who’s about to do surgery, the surgeon has all the power and you have none. You are a person who is sick, you are a person in need of care, and you depend on the surgeon, on the physician, to make you better. I don’t wish harm upon anyone, but we all know that people do get sick, people do need care, people do need surgery at some point—and when you do, you are more or less at the mercy of the person who provides that care. Big, private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations know this power dynamic. They know full well that you depend on that person for your health, that you depend on that person for your life, and that you are willing to pay. And they will make you pay, have no doubt. They have you pay, first, by gaining access.

I can share the story of Mr. Dutton. Paul Dutton is a Toronto writer and musician. He needed surgery done. He saw a gastroenterologist who told him that it would take quite a bit of time to get his colonoscopy done in a hospital, and he could have it done faster in one of the private clinics that exists in Ontario right now, but he could only gain access to the colonoscopy if he had an appointment with the dietitian at the colonoscopy clinic. The appointment with the dietitian costs $495. The gastroenterologist acknowledged that he did not need any nutritional consultation, but in order to gain access to the colonoscopy within a few days—this is what this private clinic did. You did not get a colonoscopy unless you spoke to a dietitian, and the dietitian costs 495 bucks. He made a complaint to the Ontario college of physicians and surgeons, and he made a complaint to the complaint line that exists at the Ministry of Health, but nothing happened. Nothing happened because it was not the physician who charged him $495 to see a nutritionist, that dietitian he didn’t need to see; it was the business that charged him $495 to see a dietitian in order to gain access.

So this is happening right here, right now. The opportunity to make money is there. You have surgeons telling you that you need to have that test done, that your health is at risk, that there may be cancer and you need to get at it really quick if you want your chances of survival to increase, but it’s going to cost 495 bucks to gain access. What are you going to do? What are any of us going to do? We’re going to pay the 495 bucks because we don’t want to die of cancer. This is how it works. They prey on the vulnerability of people who are sick to make money, and the resources, the creativity they have to find ways to charge you is just out of this world. We already know that. It’s happening right here, right now in Ontario.

And what is this government doing? This government is opening the door wide open, inviting all of the US-based multinational corporations to come to Ontario and set up shop—

Interjection: Open for business.

The member for Nickel Belt.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas in the First and Second World Wars, over 7,000 First Nation members, as well as an unknown number of Métis, Inuit and other Indigenous recruits, voluntarily served in the Canadian Armed Forces; and

“Whereas countless Indigenous peoples bravely and selflessly served Canada at a time of great challenges for Canada; and

“Whereas this spirit of volunteerism and community marked the life of the late Murray Whetung, who volunteered to serve in the Second World War; and

“Whereas many First Nations individuals lost their status after serving in the wars off-reserve for a period of time; and

“Whereas despite this injustice, many continued to recognize the value in continuously giving back to their community; and

“Whereas the values of volunteerism and community are instilled in the army, air, and sea cadets across Ontario; and

“Whereas the Murray Whetung Community Service Award Act establishes an award for the cadets and tells the story of Indigenous veterans’ sacrifice and mistreatment;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To urge all members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to support the passage of the Murray Whetung Community Service Award Act, 2022.”

Speaker, I’ll sign the petition and provide it to page Nolan.

We are open for business, all right. We are open for business so that we can make millions of dollars off of the backs of sick people.

I cannot stand for this, Speaker. I’m from the party of Tommy Douglas. I believe in care based on needs, not on ability to pay. I believe in medicare—but not this government. This government is putting this to the trash because there is money to be made off of the backs of sick people.

Of course, Paul is not the only one who came forward. Brenda Seaton said that her mother, who is 90 years old, needed cataract surgery. She went to the ophthalmologist and asked to have the cataract surgery done—she had had one done, but because the other was not done, it made her dizzy because she didn’t see well out of one eye and could see better out of the one that had had the surgery. The wait-list to have this done in a hospital where it would not cost anything was months long, but if she was willing to pay $1,000 for basic cataract surgery to be performed by Dr. Derek Lui of Woodstock, she could have it done right away. Since her mother was having a tough time at 90 years old—she didn’t want her mother to continue to be dizzy; the last thing you want is for her to fall and break a hip and ruin her health, ruin her ability to be independent—she came up with $1,000. She could not wait any longer. So they went to Woodstock. Ms. Seaton said that once they got to the private clinic in Woodstock, there were at least 10 people in the waiting room who she recognized from ophthalmologist Derek Lui’s practice, and all of those people had agreed to pay $1,000 so they would not have to wait months to get their cataract surgeries done in the hospital. Dr. Lui insists that that was not him charging $1,000; it was the clinic that kept those fees, that he received no financial benefit. He said, “I am just using their facilities. I am not an employee. I don’t have any shares in that clinic.... it makes no difference to me. I just bill OHIP.’” But it makes a difference to that family. Brenda did not have $1,000. It put her in financial distress to be able to gain access to the care she needed.

This is what medicare is all about—care based on your needs, not on your ability to pay.

I could go on and on with examples of other people who have had to pay to gain access to care, but I want to make sure that I save time to go through the whole bill.

The first thing that the government will have you believe, the first myth, is that if you have private clinics, they will alleviate wait times in the public system. There is a tremendous body of evidence that shows this is not true. This is a myth. The last jurisdiction to try this was Australia. In 1997, they brought in those private, for-profit corporations. What happened is, yes, the private corporations gave faster access to people who are able to pay for add-ons, but for the rest of the people in the system, the wait-lists got longer. We already have Australia that has this, and many other countries have what Ontario is about to do. And in all of those countries, the wait-lists for the publicly delivered services are longer, and in most of them the general wait-list is longer than in Ontario. So this is a myth. Bringing in for-profit delivery is not going to bring the wait-lists down in Ontario.

Myth number two is that private, for-profit ownership of health facilities leads to better health outcomes—“Let the private sector do things. They can do things better, faster, cheaper.” None of that is true, Speaker. Here again, you can look at the humongous body of evidence that exists. The truth is that the for-profit model does not incentivize high-quality care. In fact, for-profit delivery has been associated with increased mortality.

I would like to give a very sad example that happened right here in Ontario. You can look it up online. It’s the case of Levac v. James. Forever on end, pain clinics were only delivered in hospitals, where people would come and get injections to control their pain. Then, many pain clinics opened throughout—mainly, southern Ontario. As it is, independent health facilities have no oversight, no accountability. A physician opened up his pain clinic, saw thousands of people, billed OHIP for millions of dollars, but to try to cut costs, he did not follow best practices, infection prevention and control practices. Multiple people got infections. We’re talking about severe infections. When you get an infection in your spinal cord, it goes into meningitis, it goes into—some people got paralyzed from the waist down, from the injection site down, and a person died. All of this continued for two and a half years, because there is no oversight of independent health facilities in Ontario. If the same physician had done the same thing in a hospital—the first time somebody gets an infection, the hospital has mechanisms in place. It went on for two and a half years—same physician, same surgery. In a hospital, the first time somebody gets an infection, there is quality monitoring in place so they don’t get a second one—you change, you make sure that high quality is provided. With that private clinic, it went on for two and a half years, and it was only after three people got meningitis in the same week—meningitis is a reportable disease, so this disease had to be reported to Toronto Public Health. Toronto Public Health looked at three meningitis cases, started to do a bit of an investigation, realized that all three of them had dealt with Dr. James, and closed him down. Two and a half years—dozens of people with severe diseases, some of them incurable. They are paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of their lives, and a person is dead, because there is no oversight. This is happening right here, right now, in Ontario. To say that private clinics will have high-quality care—there is nothing in this bill to guarantee that.

Another myth is that private financing will make health care more efficient. This is also a myth. There is plenty of evidence that shows that health care is most efficient when it is delivered in the not-for-profit sector by a single payer, which we already have.

Myth number four: We can’t afford publicly funded health care. The truth is, we can’t afford privatized health care. Studies are there; I have dozens of them—it always costs more in the private, for-profit system because you have to make a profit. When it comes to private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations, the for-profit comes first. It will always be there before quality care, before safety, before anything else.

Don’t get me wrong; I have nothing against community-based care. Some hospitals in Ontario already do this. They have opened up surgical suites where all they do is day surgery. Across the street, this way—go to Women’s College Hospital. They don’t have beds. All they do is day surgery. But they do this within the confines of a hospital, with all of the oversight and accountability to make sure that they provide quality care. We have many other great examples right here in our province, in order to do that—but that’s not what this government has chosen to do.

This government has chosen to open the door to private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations, which we already know will put profit ahead of care.

In the bill, there is very little about oversight, except to let us know that there will be some oversight; it’s yet to be determined as to what that will be. This is not how you build a strong and robust health care system—you put those oversights in place before anything else.

We have 10 independent health facilities right now that provide surgery. We have over 800 independent health facilities; 98% of them are for-profit. There are a few—Kensington Eye Institute is a not-for-profit. But that’s not the intention of this government. The intention of this government is to bring the for-profit system in.

The bill talks a bit about what will happen if people have complaints. Apparently, they will be able—I need a drink. Sorry about that, Speaker. It’s all my husband’s fault, I want you to know. He plays hockey. One guy gets a cold in the change room, then he gets a cold and brings it home. I blame hockey. But that’s an aside.

Complaints: In the bill, they talk about how people will be able to make complaints to the ombudsman. This already happens. With the independent health facilities, people can put a complaint to the Patient Ombudsman. The Patient Ombudsman reports on those complaints. I had the stats in front of me, but I have a bit of a mess, so I will go by memory: Of over 332 complaints, over 228 of them were found to be valid complaints. The Patient Ombudsman has no authority to carry out any changes. “Yes, your complaint is valid; yes, you were charged for an upsell; yes, you were told something that wasn’t true; you did not need to buy the different lens; you could have had the OHIP-covered lens”—and this is where it ends.

There’s also a line where you can call the ministry and complain about those overpayments. Same thing—you look at the number of complaints that have been received, and two thirds of them were found to be valid. Where people had been charged for something that was covered by OHIP and they should not have been charged, the physician or the clinic was made to pay back that one person who had complained, and they could continue to charge $1,000 an eye to the other 500 patients who came in—because unless they complain, nothing happens. And even for the physicians who were found guilty, there were no consequences, except for giving back the money that they should have never taken before. What kind of oversight is this, when you know the power imbalance, when you know that the physicians have all the power and the patients have none? They have been found guilty of charging for something they shouldn’t have, and all you ask of them is to give the money back; you don’t even look at the other 500 people who have been charged the same thing.

Make no mistake, most people don’t want to complain against their physician. Most people say, “The physician was a very nice guy. He did the surgery, and I see very well now. I don’t even need my glasses. I was able to keep my driver’s licence. Could you help me, because I don’t have the $2,000 to pay him. Do you figure there’s a government program that could help me pay the 2,000 bucks? But no, no, no, I won’t make a complaint against the physician”—because they have all the power, and you have none.

I went to a seniors fair organized by the YMCA and a seniors group in Sudbury. They had given me an opportunity to talk, and I talked about the different programs that were there to help seniors stay home safe. When I ended my talk, I said, “I’m curious to see: Have any of you ever been charged when you went and saw a physician?” I had 142 people in line to come and tell me their stories. About two hours into this, I realized that Dr. S charges about $500 an eye; the other one charges about $1,000 an eye. If you don’t pay, then you’re put on the hospital wait-list and you lose your driver’s licence. If you agree to pay, you get to keep your driver’s licence because you will be seen within a short period of time. If you don’t pay, you’re put on the long wait-list in the hospital and you lose your driver’s licence. The stories were all the same. After a while—I still listened to them all. Out of 140 people, I asked, “Can I bring your story forward? Would you be willing to make a complaint?” Zero. Not one of them felt that they wanted to put in a complaint. Many of them wanted me to help them find a way to get funding for this, but none of them were willing to put in a complaint.

If this happens in Nickel Belt, I am absolutely positive that it happens in every part of the province—but although the Auditor General’s report told them about this, Canadian Doctors for Medicare told them, the Ontario Health Coalition told them and Health Quality Ontario told them, the government didn’t think it was important enough to put it in the bill. How could you not think it was important enough to put it in the bill? But they did not.

Apparently, we will get some oversight at some point in the future in some kind of regulations; we don’t know when, we don’t know what it will look like. But I’m worried because we already know that this is happening, and once you open the door to the private, for-profit, investor-owned corporations, it will just increase exponentially.

Another concern that I have: We’ve talked about the complaint mechanism to the ombudsman. First of all, the Patient Ombudsman has less power than the ombudsman, and second, he has no way of implementing changes. We’ve talked about the complaint lines that happen at the Ministry of Health. By the way, we are all pretty good with computers in our jobs—try to find that complaint line. Use the last 20 minutes of my speech to try to find it by yourself; let me know if you do. I know the number by heart, but for you to find it by yourself and connect with it—good luck with that. That system fails more people than it helps, and even when you do get your money back, no consequences come of it.

Then it’s the poaching of staff—you are about to open up a brand new, private, for-profit, investor-owned corporation—