Supported by you.

We would tag-team going after them, yes. We used to go after them. We would go after them in committees, we’d go after them in the House, because we knew they politicized the process. And you guys are following that road—sorry; this government, Speaker, is following that road of politicized energy decisions. The outcome is not good.

So not only does the current government want you to immediately be stuck with a bill for a massive subsidy to Enbridge Gas—and I’m talking $300 per customer over the next four years—it also wants you to be stuck with the cost of future projects that the OEB, the regulator, might dismiss because they hurt the interests of gas consumers. The process of hearing evidence in public by a board of people with experience and a mandate to protect the public interest is replaced by a process where the best lobbyist, as I said before, brings home the bacon—your bacon—to whatever company wants access to a subsidy from you. This is not well received in many quarters and, frankly, is contrary to advice that the government has received. I’ll go to the advice first, and then I’ll go to comments from other quarters.

In its recent report, Ontario’s energy transition panel, appointed by this government to look at the transition—frankly, again, to the minister’s comment, a transition away from gas home heating to electrification of home heating; the minister made that clear—made a recommendation that is inconsistent with Bill 165. They recommended the OEB “should conduct reviews of cost allocation and recovery policies for natural gas and electricity connections, as well as natural gas infrastructure investment evaluations to protect customers and facilitate development of the clean energy economy.”

Well, this isn’t protecting customers. I didn’t hear the minister say once that when we change this, it will mean that the rate reduction that the OEB mandated will be maintained. No, no. The rate reduction the OEB maintained is out the window. Customers will not be protected. You can go all around the mulberry bush, you can do the ring-around-the-rosie, you can be the jack in the jack-in-the-box—whatever. It ain’t protecting customers. It means higher bills. That’s what this legislation delivers. Their own electrification panel recommended the OEB make the kind of decision that the OEB made, and that’s the one that this government is working hard to reverse.

Other organizations in the energy field had comments like this: Adam Fremeth and Brandon Schaufele from the Ivey Energy Policy and Management Centre wrote—again, Ivey school is not your left-wing hotbed, right? It ain’t. They wrote, “Overriding an independent economic regulator is a big deal. It is not something that should be done lightly. The government’s decision explicitly undermines the OEB and threatens credibility of future energy investment in the province.”

Note that: “future energy investment.”

When you have a government that operates in a way that is capricious, that is not open, that is not rules-based but is influence-based, then—it’s not true with all investors; maybe some think they can get that influence and get what they want, but a lot will say, “Ehh.” You put money into that province, you don’t know if you’re going to get it back. You don’t know if actually you’re going to get a return on your investment. You could be side-swiped by someone else who’s got more powerful lobbyists. I think their comment is a good one.

“Moreover, it’s not obvious that this move is in Enbridge’s long-term interests. Once a precedent to effectively overrule a regulator is established, there’s little to stop future governments from using the same tactic to different ends, perhaps against natural gas infrastructure.”

Interesting comment, very interesting comment.

Do you have rules-based, law-based regulation in Ontario, or do you set it up so it’s influence- and lobbyist-based? I think that’s the choice before us. We know what the government has proposed. Not only do they want you to pay more on your gas bill—320 bucks over the next four years—they are also setting up a situation where you don’t know what the rules are. The rules are whatever the lobbyists and the influencers can make happen.

I’m going to quote Mr. Mondrow again, energy regulation policy expert at Gowling: “Minister Smith would be well advised to consider the wisdom of the energy panel’s recommendation and leave the matter of further consideration of new energy connection cost recovery policies with” the Ontario Energy Board. I don’t know; he seems to know regulation. He seems to know energy policy. “Leaving this in the hands of the independent regulator would maintain transparency, consistency, public accountability and a thoughtful and reasoned balancing of interests. That, after all, is the reason for an independent energy regulator.”

I think that’s a pretty good summary. Why do you have a regulator?

The logical last step in this bill, really, is dissolving the Ontario Energy Board, because frankly, you realize they’re of no use to you. They’re an impediment to you, actually, just dictating what energy policy will be, based on what lobbyists and other influencers want to do. Those lobbyists—Enbridge—want to take money out of your pocket. They want to raise your gas bill.

Adam Fremeth and Brandon Schaufele from the Ivey Energy Policy and Management Centre also noted “the government’s decision to override the OEB should have virtually no effect on affordable housing in the province.” In other words, they fundamentally disagree with the Minister of Energy in his arguments that he made earlier today.

Now I’ll quote an environmental organization. Environmental Defence wrote, “This legislation would be bad for new homeowners”—true enough—“bad for existing gas customers”—yes, because they’re going to pay more—“and bad for the environment. The only one that benefits is Enbridge Gas.”

Richard Carlson, energy director at Pollution Probe, said, “The OEB was clear, correctly in my opinion, that the energy transition is under way and there’s uncertainty about the future of natural gas use in the province.”

Also, “As far as I know, the government has never intervened this directly in trying to alter an OEB regulatory decision, and that should be incredibly concerning to everyone.”

I think those are all fair comments. You have a government that, in order to look after its friends at Enbridge, is going to rewrite the law to make the regulator irrelevant and make sure that you pay a higher bill. No wonder people are concerned.

I want to take just a few minutes, because I don’t have a lot of time left, to comment a bit on the other items that came up in the minister’s speech earlier today. The minister said he wants to protect consumer choice. Well, frankly, consumer choice hasn’t changed. People can put in gas furnaces if they want. Developers can put in gas furnaces if they want. There are two options. One is that the investors, who receive billions of dollars from their investment in Enbridge, can put in a little more money to pay for those hookups and pay themselves back over 20 or 40 years. If they think that Enbridge Gas will still be in the home heating business in 40 years, they could do that. They could charge money to a new homeowner, if the new homeowner actually wanted that, but I would say if the new homeowner actually looked at the economics of a heat pump versus a gas furnace, they would go with a heat pump because it’s a better deal—no getting around it.

To say that he’s protecting consumer choice—not the case. Consumer choice isn’t being removed. What’s being removed is the subsidy paid for by all the other gas customers—just to be clear, $300 per customer over the next four years. Not a good deal for those who are customers.

This OEB decision would increase costs: I’ve already gone through the evidence—not the case. In terms of homeowners, the OEB determined it would be a wash, a very minor change one way or the other, and frankly, other commentators have said it wouldn’t be of great consequence.

Predictable energy environment: Well, I have to say, I noted earlier about the fact that increasingly we will be integrated into the world market for natural gas. To the extent that we stay with gas, our costs become more and more unpredictable. We don’t know what’s going to happen. Frankly, to say that it would be predictable doesn’t make sense. I think you’re far better off setting up a situation in Ontario where people depend on energy generated in Ontario—electricity—rather than depending on gas imported from the United States. Again, about 60% of our gas is from the States, and we are competing with others around the world who might want to buy that gas at a much higher price. If you’re talking about predictability, a predictable energy environment, you want to move away from fossil fuels and you want to move away from natural gas.

He talked about a common-sense approach. Well, I think a common-sense approach is that existing gas customers don’t get stiffed with a bill—$300 over the next four years—to make Enbridge richer. Frankly, the common-sense thing to do would be to look at the OEB decision, which was a very reasonable decision based on an awful lot of evidence, and say, “Yep, that makes sense.” The best deal for new homeowners is to direct them towards an electric heat pump. The best deal for existing gas consumers is not to charge them more money, not to raise their bills. That would be the common-sense approach.

Let me see. There were some—oh, yes, I just have to note the minister’s satisfaction with his own home heat pump: that he didn’t freeze in the dark, that it kept him warm through the winter. Hey, that’s great.

Interjection.

Not us. We used to work with you.

No, I thought the point was really good, that he was endorsing it, that it worked and it worked well. I think that’s what we need for people across Ontario, something that works well that they can afford.

Interjection.

He wants to keep heating costs down. Well, look at the evidence. The evidence is that to keep heating costs down, you go to electric heat pumps. The technology is changing rapidly.

One thing that people should be aware of is that in the United States, the Inflation Reduction Act that’s in place now is investing heavily in advancing the technology for heat pumps so that heat pumps that already are quite functional at minus 30 will be even more efficient, more effective in the years to come. Places like Norway—Norway, people know about it, near the Arctic Circle—60% of the households have heat pumps. That’s how they heat themselves—60%. Finland, pretty close, around 50%. Sweden I don’t have the number for, but my guess is it’s in that range. They seem to be able to function, and they’re up by the Arctic Circle. If you want to be practical about cost, if you want to be practical about a system that gives you a more predictable kind of heat or energy basis or security, go to heat pumps.

He was talking about how this decision would discourage developers from using cost-effective and efficient gas. Well, frankly, it would encourage them to use cost-effective and efficient heat pumps. They’re going to put in an electricity line anyway; let’s face it. So if you’re putting in an electricity line, don’t worry about the gas, unless you’ve got a customer who really wants gas. Then you can offer it to them. It isn’t barred by anyone. If Enbridge believes what it says in its filings, in its claims, it’s certainly happy to invest in it. They can do that. They don’t have to come to us, the other gas customers, to pay for it.

Also, the pragmatic approach of the government to energy: Interestingly, the Electricity Distributors Association and the Royal Bank of Canada, who are not noted, again, as particularly radical organizations, both said that when it came to dealing with the immediate crunch in Ontario for meeting demand, it was far more cost-effective and far faster to invest in conservation and efficiency—both of them—and not just faster and more effective, but substantially cheaper. This government has totally ignored that advice. The Independent Electricity System Operator has said numerous times that energy efficiency is cost-effective. It is a great deal. That minister is ignoring the electricity distributors who, frankly, know a fair amount about electricity in this province, and the Royal Bank of Canada, that has an interest in this matter. His own organization, the IESO, has talked about the value of conservation and efficiency in terms of low cost and the ability to deliver quickly the sorts of reduction in demand so that we don’t have any power shortage. So I can’t say that his approach is really that pragmatic.

And just briefly about difficulties in both Alberta and Texas for failure of electricity systems in deep cold: In the most recent problem in Alberta, two gas plants went off-line in the middle of that crunch—two gas plants. They couldn’t be depended on. And in storm Uri in Texas, when they had those blackouts, again, it was the gas system that couldn’t handle the cold. The pumps for the gas systems were frozen. So in both cases we’re talking about problems with the gas infrastructure; that was the biggest issue.

I’m going to wrap up, Speaker. Don’t forget; this is really plain: The government wants you to pay more on your gas bill. It wants to raise your gas bill. It wants to ensure that Enbridge has higher profits. It wants to take money out of your pocket to the tune of 300 bucks over the next four years. Everything else is just smoke. All the other arguments are strange-looking scenery and don’t bear on the guts of it. This government wants to raise your gas bill. That’s it.

The OEB didn’t say, “No. You can’t put your money in and supply people with that 40-year loan.” Go ahead—no sweat. But you can’t take it from the existing gas customers. They are tapped out. So I say to you right now, your government should go to Enbridge and say, “Look, you’ve got big pockets. You put the money out. You try and collect it over 40 years.” Because 25 or 30 years from now, that system will have shrunk dramatically, and whoever is left holding the bag is going to have very big expenses, and I think Enbridge knows that.

I would like to thank my colleague from Toronto–Danforth. He kept coming back to $300 over the next four years—if we calculate that, that’s going to be less than 10 bucks a month—and thinking that this is big money and this is Enbridge, like we are helping Enbridge, while the whole idea behind that bill was to reduce the cost that a new connection would have to pay upfront. I don’t know how come he can say there’s no significant difference. This is simple math. You’re going to pay what you’re going to pay in the next 40 years in one lump sum upfront. Now we cannot start talking about the prices of the houses going up because, at the end of the day, it’s going to be passed to the end user.

My question is, what do you think about the savings of this lump-sum amount, kick-start initial cost, versus the $300?

Questions?

I want to thank the honourable member for a wonderful and very informative speech.

I think it’s great that we have just highlighted in the back-and-forth here what a great poster boy our energy minister is for heat pumps. I think everybody in Ontario should know that our energy minister has a heat pump, has electric backup and he’s doing quite well, and I guess because he spoke about it here today, he wants all of Ontario to know that. I want to thank everybody for bringing that out in the debate today.

I’ll pose to the honourable energy critic for the NDP the same question that I posed to the minister. I think he’ll know what I’m about to ask.

One of the dissenting commissioners, the only one who voted against the OEB decision, suggested that the revenue horizon should be 20 years, which would mean that the upfront payment would be about one third of the cost of a natural gas installation. Would he support that?

Can you say that again?

I want to thank the member for Toronto–Danforth, not Davenport, for that great presentation. I also just want to note, you mentioned that the minister enjoys the benefits of a heat pump for a home that is not serviced by gas.

I was surprised—because I’ve read the 147-page report that you referenced in your remarks—when the minister said that the Independent Electricity System Operator was not consulted, was not involved, because if you refer to page 5 of the report, what the OEB says is that, in fact, the IESO was one of the people who contributed to the years’ worth of research, the over 10,000 pages of evidence that the OEB came to a decision.

I guess I’m asking the member to reflect upon the conflicting position of the minister. Is he the minister for energy or is he the minister for Enbridge?

Next question?

I’m moving on to the next question.

Well, it shouldn’t be shocking—

What’s happening with this is that the government has decided that they do not want an energy board that actually regulates based on rules, regulations and evidence. They want energy decisions made based on lobbyists and influencers who get to cabinet ministers and the Premier. That’s the basis of what’s going on.

I do find that shocking because I thought after our experience with the Liberals and them playing around with the energy board that this government, even if I disagree with them, might have more interest in a regulator that actually functions—

Interjections.

He’s clearly the minister for Enbridge—there’s no two ways about it—just as the Liberals were the ministers for TransCanada Energy. They were the ministers for whatever power producers wanted to build a gas plant. That’s who they were the ministers for. Yes, this is the minister for Enbridge. He’s looking out for Enbridge. He’s not looking out for you. He wants you to pay more. He wants you to have a higher gas bill. That’s the reality.

No, I don’t support the 20-year time horizon. I think, increasingly, it’s going to be unpredictable how long those lines will actually be functional. I think to be fair to gas consumers around the province who will have to pay more to subsidize this, they shouldn’t be the ones who take the risk that there will not be repayment.

As I noted earlier, coal use in this province for residential heating collapsed within a decade. Frankly, as we see improvements in other technologies and if heat pumps see substantial advances in the next few years, I can see mass abandonment of the Enbridge gas heating system. That would mean that in 20 years, it may not be there as an investment that you can collect on; it may simply be gone.

So zero seems the appropriate risk level—

I would like to thank MPP Peter Tabuns for this hour. We learned so much from you. And it is very simple: This government wants you to pay more so that Enbridge and developers don’t have to. It’s really simple. They can spin themselves in knots. When it comes right down to it, they want you to pay, not Enbridge.

And let’s be clear: Enbridge operates as a regulated monopoly. It’s a regulated monopoly. And how is it regulated? By the OEB. So it is shocking to see this government undermine its own regulatory body, but I shouldn’t be shocked because we see political interference from this government when it comes to appointing judges. They want like-minded judges. Now we heard from this minister that they’re going to appoint a new chair of the board for the OEB—I imagine also a like-minded sock puppet.

It was good to see Enbridge throw off their socks, but we have a government that’s cutting them off at the knees. Do you find it shocking, the level of political interference coming from this government?

As the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Energy as well as the MPP for Glengarry–Prescott–Russell, it’s my privilege to echo Minister Smith’s remarks on the importance of the Keeping Energy Costs Down Act and what it means for Ontario families and businesses across the province.

In particular, I’d like to start with the changes to the leave-to-construct process that are proposed in today’s legislation, which are critical for Ontario’s municipalities—and this is especially true for rural communities like the one I represent.

As it currently stands, anyone looking to build a new home or business and connect it to a reliable, affordable natural gas supply in Ontario must get a leave-to-construct approval from the Ontario Energy Board if the expected costs of the pipeline project will be $2 million or above. However, this existing exemption, which has been in place for more than 20 years, is causing major delays for cities and towns all over the province.

Minister Smith and I have heard many concerns from municipal leaders in every corner of the province who want to make sure that new housing is built and who want to get their constituents off more expensive and emitting forms of energy like home heating oil. And they put forward a clear ask. It was pretty clear, specifically in support of raising the current leave-to-construct cost threshold.

I had the pleasure of attending the Rural Ontario Municipal Association—ROMA—conference last month, where I was able to hear the frustration first-hand from many municipal leaders. During this conference, I met with the South Central Ontario Region Economic Development Corp. They are a non-profit corporation owned by the counties of Brant, Elgin, Middlesex, Norfolk and Oxford and represent just under one million residents in the southwestern region of Ontario. This group of municipalities’ message was clear: that they support our government’s direction in modernizing the leave-to-construct process and recognize that the $2-million cost threshold established in regulation in 2003 is outdated and does not reflect the current costs associated with infrastructure projects today. The steps we’re proposing here today will update this threshold and support our government’s objective of building 1.5 million homes across Ontario, helping to expand transit, cutting red tape, and lowering the cost of access to our affordable, reliable and resilient natural gas system.

I also had the pleasure of meeting with the Eastern Ontario Wardens’ Caucus during last month’s ROMA conference. The Eastern Ontario Wardens’ Caucus is the voice for 103 rural municipalities representing approximately 800,000 constituents. The Eastern Ontario Wardens’ Caucus region spans over 50,000 square kilometres; for a reference point, that’s about the size of the province of Nova Scotia. They continue to see significant growth throughout this region, which brings with it increased pressure to develop the gas pipeline network.

Under the current leave-to-construct threshold, municipalities represented by the Eastern Ontario Wardens’ Caucus are seeing significant delays in getting natural gas to development sites. It’s just a fact that gas pipeline project costs in Ontario have significantly increased due to higher labour and material costs over the past 20 years, just like they have across Canada, and $2 million is no longer a meaningful threshold. Ontario is constantly growing and we need to ensure that every sector in this great province stays modern to ensure that we continue to keep shovels in the ground and create jobs.

Meredith Staveley-Watson, who is the manager of government relations and policy of the Eastern Ontario Wardens’ Caucus, reached out to the Minister of Energy’s office directly to highlight the importance of modernizing the leave-to-construct threshold. Madam Staveley-Watson states, “Modernizing these outdated regulations would reduce delays and costs for economic development initiatives including new industries seeking to locate in Ontario and create jobs ... transit projects, community expansion projects, housing developments, connections for low carbon fuel blending (e.g. renewable natural gas, hydrogen) as well as residential and business customer connections.”

While the opposition may wish to ignore the fact that Ontario’s economy is growing, our government understands how important this modernization is to Ontario families and businesses. To help modernize Ontario even further, if passed, the Keeping Energy Costs Down Act would allow for the development of regulations to exempt small pipeline projects that cost between $2 million and $10 million from leave-to-construct.

The Eastern Ontario Wardens’ Caucus also highlights this point of increasing the cost threshold to $10 million as it would closer align Ontario with other Canadian jurisdictions, like British Columbia, where the thresholds are $15 million for electricity and $20 million for natural gas. Ontario cannot stay in the past and we need to modernize so we don’t get left in the dust.

I was also honoured to meet with the Western Ontario Wardens’ Caucus, who also expressed their support for this threshold increase. The Western Ontario Wardens’ Caucus is a non-profit organization representing 15 municipalities, 300 communities, 250,000 businesses and 1.5 million constituents across rural western Ontario. The Western Ontario Wardens’ Caucus aims to enhance the prosperity and overall well-being of rural and small urban communities across the region, which have seen significant growth in the past decade, once again bringing additional pressure to build out the gas pipeline network.

Much like the previous organizations I mentioned, the Western Ontario Wardens’ Caucus recognizes that Ontario’s outdated regulations are causing the current leave-to-construct threshold to apply far more broadly than intended when it was established more than two decades ago. In fact, the Western Ontario Wardens’ Caucus have told us that rural western Ontario could lose out on significant opportunities for economic development in their region due in part to the current threshold which was never updated by the previous government.

While the opposition may wish to lose jobs and economic opportunities, our government understands that these lost economic opportunities are simply unacceptable. This is why Ontario needs to act now to modernize the Ontario Energy Board’s leave-to-construct process in order to bring reliable and affordable energy options to communities, homes and businesses in a more cost-effective and timely manner. We simply cannot lose any more jobs and economic opportunities in Ontario. These leave-to-construct changes proposed in today’s act will help to promote and protect economic development and job creation opportunities, especially in rural municipalities across the province.

When meeting with the united counties of Leeds and Grenville, Mr. Speaker, they discussed how their municipalities are facing delays and problems in ensuring natural gas expansion into commercial and industrial parks, as well as some residential areas. There are significant economic development implications to these delays and, of course, we know the only real solution is to improve the necessary infrastructure.

Like many rural communities, economic development in eastern Ontario and the united counties of Leeds and Grenville has been historically driven by a competitive tax structure, the availability of serviced land and an educated workforce. We know that today’s economic development efforts, however, require a more comprehensive and collaborative strategy, particularly in our post-pandemic era. That’s why our government is focused on supporting a broader regional network of infrastructure to reflect and support the reality of business, industry supply chains and trade. This is true in all rural communities across Ontario, like the united counties of Leeds and Grenville, who are constantly in competition with larger urban markets for commercial and industrial business.

Mr. Speaker, I hope it is well known that natural gas in Ontario is more affordable than any other sources of energy, such as oil and propane. Expanding natural gas makes the cost of living more affordable for all constituents but significantly for rural residents, especially those in northern Ontario where even high-efficiency heat pumps may not be an option on the coldest days of the year.

Not only is natural gas more affordable, expanding natural gas will also increase economic development and job opportunities within communities. Currently, natural gas plays an important role in meeting Ontario’s energy needs in that it’s currently the primary heating source for 70% of homes in the province.

The legislation our government is introducing today will make it easier to develop and connect to natural gas pipeline projects, which is not only essential for heating, but also contributes to overall energy efficiency and improving the quality of life for residents.

Ontario’s natural gas expansion initiative has made it more affordable to bring natural gas to underserviced rural communities. Specifically, the township of Huron-Kinloss expressed that the expansion has provided residential and commercial ratepayers in that municipality with a choice in how they meet their energy needs in an affordable manner. The clerk from Huron-Kinloss states, “The township has benefitted from natural gas expansion initiatives of the province, making it affordable to bring natural gas to underserviced rural areas. This has provided residential and commercial ratepayers with choices in how they meet their energy needs in an affordable manner, and helps to provide heat sources during even the worst winter storms.”

I would like to thank the township of Huron-Kinloss for their support for these types of initiatives to continue in a sustainable manner that makes it affordable to all citizens. This is why I urge all members to vote for the Keeping Energy Costs Down Act as natural gas is needed across Ontario, specifically for our rural constituents who rely on this affordable energy. Our government understands that it’s more challenging for rural customers to transition to natural gas, as it currently stands. That’s why Ontario is focused on bringing regulations forward that allow equal opportunity to natural gas supply that is built in a sustainable manner.

And it truly spans across the map. Another community that expressed natural gas as their top concern is the township of Warwick. As a municipality that currently has only some portions serviced, their local government often hears from residents and businesses expressing their interest in having access to both natural gas and three-phase hydro. Like many small rural communities, power and service availability are key drivers of economic development. Without these services, they simply can’t compete with other communities who offer these amenities.

I also met with the municipality of Red Lake, which is a northwestern Ontario municipality, not far from the Manitoba-Ontario border. This small community is poised for significant economic growth over the next decade as a result of several nearby mining projects. However, they do not currently have the capacity to provide the needed natural gas and electrical power service to support these projects or support the additional housing and services that will be required for the influx of workers and new residents that will be coming to their community.

Similar natural gas concerns were brought forward in my meeting with the township of Conmee, where natural gas is unavailable, as well as in the municipality of Oliver Paipoonge, where other energy sources like wood, electricity and propane are very expensive for heating and where residents are experiencing issues with insurance companies becoming increasingly reluctant to insure properties that use wood for heating.

Finally, I wish to talk about my riding, Glengarry–Prescott–Russell. My constituency office hears every day from my constituents how important affordability is, specifically how important affordability and reliability are when it comes to energy.

I was so honoured to hear from the township of East Hawkesbury, which, for those who don’t know, is one of the last communities before you hit the province of Quebec. Mayor Kirby expressed the need for the threshold change. He states:

“That these outdated regulations are causing the leave-to-construct to apply far more broadly than intended when it was established over 20 years ago. Due to increased regulatory and cost pressures, as well as inflation, virtually all gas pipeline projects are now greater than $2 million, rendering the threshold meaningless. That roughly 0.5 kilometres of pipe in urban settings now often exceeds the $2-million threshold. That modernizing these outdated regulations would reduce delays and costs for economic development initiatives including community expansion projects, housing developments, connections for low-carbon fuel blending (e.g. renewable natural gas, hydrogen) as well as residential and business customer connections. That based on OEB’s performance standards, this proposal would save approximately 507 months of regulatory process in addition to the time needed to undertake Indigenous consultation and environmental review and prepare an application to the OEB.”

I have barely touched on every community that has expressed the need for keeping energy costs down. Similar concerns were also shared during meetings Minister Smith and I had with municipal leaders during last year’s Association of Municipalities of Ontario, AMO, conference.

Our government knows that the Keeping Energy Costs Down Act is a step in the right direction to preserve customer energy choices, by ensuring that natural gas remains an available and affordable option for customers. Our government understands that supporting new projects in municipalities is critical to helping not just communities to grow, succeed, and thrive, but Ontario’s economy will prosper as well.

As we plan for a prosperous future, we must ensure we have an energy system that can deliver reliable and affordable power to all Ontarians, including those in small rural communities such as the ones I have talked about today. I urge the members of the House to think of every Ontarian across this great province and support the Keeping Energy Costs Down Act.

Questions?

Je veux te donner un break de l’anglais. Je vais te poser une question en français.

On a l’organisme de règlementation, le conseil d’énergie—en d’autres mots, l’« energy board »—qui nous dit qu’il faut commencer à s’éloigner du gaz naturel. Votre gouvernement préfère donner encore plus d’argent à Enbridge. En d’autres mots, ça va nous coûter encore plus cher, les personnes qui sont sur le gaz. On sait qu’il faut s’éloigner de ça.

Pourquoi, à la place, vous ne dites pas à Enbridge :« Vous voulez les avoir? Payez pour vous rendre là. » ? Pourquoi est-ce que c’est encore les contribuables qui—il faut qu’ils payent encore plus? Aussi, ce que vous pouvez faire comme gouvernement, vu qu’il faut s’éloigner de ça, parce qu’on n’a rien qu’à voir ce qui se passe avec nos hivers et nos feux et tout ce qui se passe avec l’environnement—pourquoi ne peut-on pas mettre des incitatifs aux « heat pumps » ? Pourquoi pas donner un incitatif pour commencer à faire le transfert vers les énergies vertes? Ça, ce serait un plan qui respectait l’organisme de règlementation. Pourquoi votre gouvernement aime mieux donner de l’argent et encore enrichir les proches—

Juste pour dire que notre gouvernement, premièrement, a été élu grâce à notre plan d’amener de l’électricité abordable et fiable en Ontario. Puis, toutes sources d’énergie—c’est une de nos priorités. Je dois dire que votre gouvernement, qui est contre l’expansion de gaz naturel—je me demande des fois si vous vivez dans la même province que nous, parce que toutes les municipalités de vos circonscriptions sont venues à notre gouvernement pour demander plus de gaz naturel. Aussi, comment est-ce que votre gouvernement a voté contre l’énergie nucléaire, qui représente présentement environ 75 % aujourd’hui? On se parle, là : l’énergie nucléaire, c’est 50 % de l’électricité produite en Ontario en temps réel maintenant—

To the member across, thank you very much for your presentation.

The Enbridge Gas plans were reviewed by the Ontario Energy Board. It was a plan that looked at what was going to be happening over the next five years. The board then argued that the company’s proposal would lead to an overbuilt and underutilized gas system. They wanted to move the company forward to ensure that they were going to meet the needs of the future by moving away from fossil fuel towards renewable energy.

Minister, what in this bill actually does that for the homeowners and the future taxpayers of Ontario? How do we protect them from undue and unnecessary costs that this bill will actually bring upon them because we’re still using outdated technology?

Thank you to my colleague for this question. Of course, like me, he knows how important it is, because we had every municipality coming to us for delegations. We hear from all across Ontario the need to increase the natural gas in Ontario.

We’ve seen these projects now these days. I know a lot of farmers in my riding who want to have natural gas for their grain dryers. Now they’re asking for a price to bring natural gas, and it costs like $2 million to do one kilometre in a concession. We have the same policies or rules from 20 years ago, so I think it’s time to revise that and make it easier for people to have access to natural gas in the province of Ontario.

Of course, we all know that a couple of months ago, your party voted against increasing our nuclear fleet in Ontario. But I think we’ve got a great plan and we’re sticking to it, and I think Ontarians are pretty happy with what we’re doing when it comes to energy in this province.

When we heard the minister talk about his heat pump—I also have a heat pump at home, but some of these days when the temperature in the afternoon goes from minus 5 to minus 25, that heat pump just won’t do the job. You need the electric backup or you need a natural gas backup, especially in rural municipalities when sometimes the grid is not that reliable because you’re really in a rural region and we’ve got power outages. You can live with a generator and natural gas, but you won’t be able to do that with a heat pump.

That’s the reason why we think it’s important to have natural gas be part of our plan to bring affordable, reliable and clean energy to Ontario. That’s the reason why we see companies coming back to Ontario manufacturing.

I want to thank my colleague for his excellent comments, echoing the minister’s comments that we have a pragmatic approach here in Ontario. I would like the member to speak a bit about the difference between gas as a heating source as opposed to an electricity source. It makes up less than 8% of our electrical grid, yet we know that it makes up almost two thirds of our heating requirements across the province.

I’m wondering if the member could please speak to the ongoing role that natural gas is going to play in this province moving forward.

It’s a pleasure to rise today to speak to this bill, the protecting profits for Enbridge act. I’m beginning on a note of humour because we’re getting to that point in the afternoon where it can become difficult to listen to debate, particularly debate that doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I heard it from the parliamentary assistant just now, who’s my neighbour in eastern Ontario from a riding I love and grew up in, that the member himself, like the minister, enjoys the use of a heat pump. My question is, if it isn’t not great for the member and the minister, what is stopping the province from giving that option to every single apartment building, every single home, every single business, every single farm in the province of Ontario?

Let me tell you something, Speaker: I am a proud New Democrat, and one of the founders of the New Democratic Party, one of the modern exemplars of the values I’m very proud to stand behind here in this part of the House, was J.S. Woodsworth. What Woodsworth used to say at the House of Commons is, “What we desire for ourselves, we desire for all.” We’re not happy when we’re doing okay, because we’re aware of the fact that we all do well when we all do well. We all do well when everybody is given an opportunity to be their best self.

What this bill does brazenly—and I’ve had occasion in the last six years to see a lot of brazen pieces of legislation—is say, “I don’t care about evidence. I don’t care about independent regulators. I don’t care about what the rest of the world is doing in the energy sector. I am going to listen to Enbridge’s consultants, Enbridge’s lobbyists and the chief of staff to the minister” who, as I understand, used to be a lobbyist for Enbridge. “I’m going to listen to that advice and not the advice that could make Ontario a cleaner, greener, more prosperous place for generations to come.”

You know, Speaker, when I hear the disconnect from reality over there, it makes me think of the great playwright Bertolt Brecht, who wrote a reflection on authoritarianism—authoritarian logic like I’m hearing over there. He once wrote in a poem called The Answer:

... that the people

Had forfeited the confidence of the government

And could win it back only

By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier

In that case for the government

To dissolve the people

And elect another?

That’s what we’re dealing with here. It’s not the first time we’ve seen this government say “meh” in the face of evidence. There’s a big graveyard of former regulators and people entrusted to give advice to this particular government. What about the Ontario child advocate? What about the Ontario Environmental Commissioner? What about the French Language Services Commissioner? What the former member from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex; what about Mr. McNaughton? Do they listen to anybody over there when controversy broaches itself in their caucus, or are they only interested in what Enbridge is trying to tell the province of Ontario in this moment? And that is that the monopoly they have, the agreement they have signed with the province of Ontario and the profits they generate from it matter more than making the energy transition which is right in front of us.

I’ll be charitable to the government too, because there are elements of the province that can see it that work for this government, and they’re doing it. I’m thinking about the IESO, the Independent Electricity Systems Operator, which I’ve heard both the parliamentary assistant and the minister say were not involved in the OEB decision. Incorrect. Page 5 of the 147-page report says very clearly the IESO deputed. Their evidence was gathered toward it. Their opinion was not the one accepted by two thirds of the OEB. So, we can make up our own arguments, but we can’t make up our own facts, all right? The fact of the matter is, the IESO deputed to this process. The advice they gave the OEB was not persuasive.

But the question here, Speaker, is this: When the OEB, which is an independent body of this Legislature, gives a 147-page decision and tells us, as legislators in this place, that we are at risk if we give Enbridge the right to bilk ratepayers $300, that we will be designing, in their words, “an overbuilt, underutilized gas system”—now, that is not to say that this is a system that can change overnight. When I hear members opposite saying that, they’re technically correct. But that’s not the debate we’re having. That’s not the debate we’re having.

The debate we’re having is, what is the future? The 1.5 million homes I hear the members opposite talking about all the time. Well, let’s do a thought experiment. One expert who did actually contribute to the OEB’s study said that if we decided to build those 1.5 million new homes and we decided to heat them with methane gas, that would result in over 100 megatons of carbon pollution over the lifetime of that new infrastructure. Just for reference, Speaker, that is two thirds of Ontario’s total emissions every year. It’s the equivalent of driving 22 million cars. Ontario at the moment has just over nine million cars.

So if the government wants to please Enbridge and allow them to increase the gas bills of Ontarians to fund their infrastructure plans, which are not borne out by evidence, that has a consequence. In my community right now, people in Ottawa Centre are faced with the—I mean, you have to laugh, Speaker, because you don’t want to cry all the time. But we in Ottawa are really proud of our festival called Winterlude. We’re proud of the great canal skateway that we have, biggest in the world. Well, it was biggest in the world. It didn’t open at all last year. Didn’t open at all last year; we’ve had five days of skating this year. And who is one of the principal sponsors of Winterlude back home? Enbridge.

Many of us have asked the National Capital Commission, “Why are we doing this? Why are we working with a company that is pressuring this government, that is pressuring other governments to embrace forms of electrical generation that are counterproductive to our climate goals?”