Our government knows the status quo is not working and more needs to be done. That is why we launched the Your Health plan. We are taking bold action to eliminate surgical backlogs and reduce wait times for publicly funded surgeries and procedures. Our plan is investing in infrastructure, boosting health human resources and adding educational supports for the future. Our plan is adding thousands of hours of MRI and CT scans and more procedures, including hip and knee replacements, closer to home—all accessible with your OHIP card, not your credit card. Our plan has already reduced the surgical backlog to below pre-pandemic levels.

We will continue to work with our health care partners across Ontario to ensure that we have the best publicly funded health care when and where people need it.

It took Ontario years of neglect by the previous governments, propped up by the NDP—but our government has taken action and delivered results for Ontarians. Our government is proud to have one of the largest publicly funded health care systems across the whole world—a system we’re investing $85 billion in this year. There are countless stories of life-changing impacts across the province and evidence that expanding our capacity in our health care system is creating access for more surgeries and procedures than ever before.

Our government will continue to find innovative ways to make it faster and easier for Ontarians to access the care they need, when they need it, closer to home.

My question is for the Associate Minister of Small Business.

Canada’s inflation rate just rose to 2.9% this past month thanks to higher gas prices. Data from Statistics Canada indicates that if it wasn’t for gasoline prices, inflation would have actually gone down month over month.

We know that many small businesses rely on transportation to deliver goods and services. The carbon tax is making it more expensive to run their operations. The federal government must fix their broken tax measures, scrap the carbon tax and deliver real affordability for small businesses across Ontario.

Can the associate minister please tell this House how the carbon tax and high gasoline prices hurt our small businesses in Ontario?

Thank you to the great member from Brantford–Brant for his strong advocacy for his small businesses.

So many of our small businesses rely heavily on transportation and energy-intensive operations to deliver their goods and services. Ontario’s agricultural and agri-food businesses, from family farms to processing facilities, have seen their transportation and operating costs skyrocket. But the opposition Liberals and NDP have ignored the basic economics of why the carbon tax is bad for business. In fact, they think business owners and customers are better off.

So if you’re a lover of farmers’ markets, you can thank a Liberal the next time you see the price of Ontario produce go up. And when you pick up the necessary groceries for your family, you can thank a Liberal when you have to make those tough decisions on what to pick up and what to put back.

Join us and tell the Trudeau Liberals that this expensive, unaffordable tax has to be axed.

Point of order.

Mr. Speaker, obviously, we’re not going to entertain a substantive motion like that. If the Liberal Party would like to bring something on the floor, they have many opportunities to do that—as opposed to playing games, perhaps they would take their work seriously and bring something to the floor of this House. But I can assure the member that we will be voting against a motion that we have neither seen nor have been advised about what the contents of it are.

Supplementary question.

Minister of the Environment, Conservation and Parks.

The member for Kingston and the Islands has a point of order.

There being no further business this morning and no deferred votes, this House stands in recess until 1 p.m.

The House recessed from 1142 to 1300.

Report deemed adopted.

First reading agreed to.

Thank you very much, Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce my private members’ bill for the first time.

I want to thank Karissa Singh, who’s the legislative assistant from my office here at Queen’s Park as well as OLIP’s Steffi Burgi for their dedication to crafting this legislation.

Ms. Fife moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 189, An Act to enact Lydia’s Law (Accountability and Transparency in the Handling of Sexual Assault Cases), 2024 / Projet de loi 189, Loi édictant la Loi Lydia de 2024 (responsabilité et transparence dans le traitement des cas d’agression sexuelle).

Section 2 of the act provides that the Attorney General shall prepare and publish a progress report describing the extent to which the Ministry of the Attorney General has implemented certain recommendations set out in the Auditor General’s report and shall lay the progress report before the assembly.

Section 3 of the act requires the Standing Committee on Justice Policy to establish a working group to review the progress report and report on their review to the assembly.

Section 4 of the act provides that the Attorney General shall review the efficiency of the Victim Quick Response Program and report the results of the review to the assembly.

Section 5 of the act requires police services that receive a sexual assault complaint from persons who are 16 years of age or older to make the person aware of the independent legal advice program.

It is my pleasure to table this bill and I look forward to the debate on May 15.

This petition honours a young woman named Lydia who waited two years for justice. In those two years, Speaker, the pain and the stress and the tension that she and her family experienced is inexcusable in a province like Ontario, for people to have to wait that long for justice.

This petition specifically speaks to two recommendations from the Auditor General, and that is to ensure that the Attorney General of Ontario is reporting back to this House what’s actually going on in our justice system with regard to the cases specifically around sexual assault that have been thrown out.

So we have gathered some signatures and are asking the government to support this legislation to address a constant and prevalent and systemic level of injustice that is happening to women who come forward and report sexual assault in Ontario.

It’s my pleasure to affix my signature and give it to page Brayden.

This is a petition calling on the Minister of Long-Term Care, the member for Willowdale, to call Bill 21 to committee. It has been at committee now for almost 400 days. It is time for the committee to address the issue of spouses being separated in long-term care.

This is a petition that honours Jim McLeod from Waterloo region. He and his wife, Joan, have been married for 65 years, now separated in two different facilities for six and a half years.

The research is very clear. When spouses and family members are able to stay together, their health improves. We knew through the pandemic that when you do have a spouse with you in a long-term-care facility or a care campus, they do a lot of assistance with the caretaking and caring for that individual. It’s a win-win-win to keep people together. It is cruel to separate spouses who are in long-term care, especially after these seniors contributed to the health and well-being and financial success of this province.

I’m calling on the Minister of Long-Term Care to call Bill 21 to the social policy committee. Let’s fix this together. It’s the least we can do for seniors in Ontario. Thank you very much.

My question is for the Solicitor General.

Since the introduction of the Liberal carbon tax in 2019, life has become more and more unaffordable for Ontarians. With the support of the Liberal members in this House, the federal government continues to punish Ontario families who are already struggling to put food on the table and heat their homes. It’s forcing Ontarians to pay more at the gas pump—a 14-cent increase just yesterday. This is not what the hard-working people of the province of Ontario deserve.

The carbon tax is costing everyone, including our front-line heroes.

Ontario deserves better, and our government must do all we can to fight this regressive tax.

Can the Solicitor General please explain the consequences of the federal carbon tax on our province’s public safety system?

It is truly disappointing to see the federal government ignore the significant financial burden the carbon tax places on all of our front-line heroes.

Unfortunately, both the NDP and the Liberal members in this Legislature continue to support the federal Liberals and their unjust carbon tax. They just have to make a phone call to Jagmeet and Justin and ask them to change it.

Speaker, since our government was elected in 2018, affordability has been one of our top priorities. Unlike the carbon tax queen, Bonnie Crombie, our government is fighting the carbon tax. We’ve frozen the gas tax, and we’re saving Ontarians’ hard-earned money.

We’re keeping the pressure on and calling for the carbon tax to be scrapped so that the first responders who keep our communities safe won’t be impacted by this regressive tax.

Can the Solicitor General please explain how the Liberal carbon tax is negatively impacting law enforcement and public safety agencies all across Ontario?

It’s my pleasure to table a petition regarding organ donation. Many people in the province of Ontario don’t understand how this program is in crisis. Our health critic has been gathering signatures from all over Ontario, but there are currently 1,600 people waiting for a life-saving organ transplant in Ontario. It’s a shocking number, Speaker. Every three days, someone in Ontario actually dies because they can’t get a transplant in time. We know that we need to be more proactive around organ donation, so our health critic, the member from Nickel Belt, has a petition that would allow a donor system based on presumed consent, which means that you would have to opt out instead of ensuring that organs are available for donation.

It’s a worthwhile program, built on many years of advocacy across the province. This is something we can do together. It should not be a partisan issue. With that, I will table this petition on behalf of the member from Nickel Belt. Thank you very much.

I have a petition with a number of signatures that were collected by Dr. Sally Palmer, who is a professor at McMaster University and is passionate about the urgency of raising social assistance rates. We’re proud to support her efforts because the petition points out how far below the poverty line individuals on Ontario Works and ODSP receive from this government: $733 for individuals on Ontario Works, $1,308 for those on ODSP. As the Speaker knows, that won’t even rent you an apartment, much less provide resources for food and electricity and other essentials.

The petition also talks about the fact that this government’s decision to tie ODSP to the cost of living does nothing to lift people on ODSP out of poverty and, in fact, just condemns them to legislated poverty for as long as they are collecting social assistance.

The petition also reminds us that the federal government had a CERB program during the pandemic that provided a basic income of $2,000 per month, which the government had determined was about what people needed in this country to be able to live during the COVID pandemic. So the petition calls for a doubling of social assistance rates for Ontario Works and ODSP, which is something I fully, fully support and am happy to affix my signature.

We have EAs who are feeling unsafe, who are often on long-term disability because of the violence that they experience in our schools. Teachers are reporting more violent incidents. Students and parents are reporting more violent incidents in our classrooms. Much of that is connected to the fact that our schools are terribly understaffed. The mental health supports available for students are terribly under-resourced. All of this contributes to that crisis that we’re seeing in our classrooms.

So the petition calls on the Legislative Assembly to take effective action to address the violence in our schools. It calls on the Legislative Assembly to invest in more mental health resources and to properly fund our schools so that we can have smaller classrooms and more caring adults in our school buildings.

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 17, 2024, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 159, An Act to amend the Provincial Animal Welfare Services Act, 2019 / Projet de loi 159, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2019 sur les services provinciaux visant le bien-être des animaux.

Further debate?

Meegwetch, Speaker. Remarks in Anishininiimowin. It’s a good day.

It’s always an honour to be able to speak on behalf of the people of Kiiwetinoong and, at this time, to be able to address some of the issues with Bill 159. There is so much for me to advocate for regarding animal welfare and animal wellness in the riding of Kiiwetinoong. I talk about that because it is so important that we make sure that we are not passing legislation that we know people in Kiiwetinoong communities and people in the north will be in contradiction of because they cannot access veterinary services.

But I want to do a shout-out also. I want to thank Matawa First Nations as well on supporting me and speaking to this bill by passing along very important information about animal welfare in First Nation communities, but also to be able to talk about their own pilot project. When my office was talking to them, their work was based on fulsome consultation with Indigenous people.

Ontario’s animal welfare models and services take almost no consideration, if any, for on-reserve communities in the province of Ontario.

I want to reiterate as well that governments have come a long way when it comes to dogs. As members of the Legislature, I think more people should know about the history of how sled dogs have been treated in this country. I spoke about this last month, but I want to take a minute again to remind you that for all First Nations—not just First Nations, but also Inuit communities—sled dogs were not historically pets but rather work animals that were necessary for our ways of life when we were on the land. They helped us transport hunting supplies, moving camp to camp.

Speaker, one of the things that happened is that the colonial governments used violence to aim at taking away First Nations and Inuit ways of life. For decades in the 20th century—the 1950s specifically, the 1960s—government officials, RCMP officers, shot and killed our people’s dogs. The reason they did that: Because they wanted to disempower and take away our ways of life, the independence, by taking away our ability to hunt for food. That’s why I keep saying governments have come a long way on how we treat animals and our pets and our work dogs. When I talk about that, this is one of the many ways, one of the many violent tactics used by the government to try to force us to assimilate and one example of the many ways that the government has interfered in our ways of life, changing our relationship to animals and the land.

Before I continue, I want to say that I will be sharing my time with the member for London North Centre.

Also I want everyone to consider today what it looks like for the community in the north, what it looks like in Kiiwetinoong, where there are no veterinary services, because it’s very clear; I see it. We end up with overpopulation and suffering by both the animals and also people. This spring, as an example, in Nibinamik First Nation, also known as Summer Beaver, over 20 dogs were lost because of an outbreak of parvovirus, a very contagious and often deadly disease. The death of these dogs and the heartbreak it entailed for families could have been prevented if vaccines were regularly available and if there were veterinary professional models of service delivery, but there was none.

This should be a reminder of the very real consequences that the lack of animal care imposes, which is also felt across the border in Manitoba where a state of emergency was declared last month because of animal overpopulation crisis. Speaker, without proactive measures to control dog populations, because of the lack of veterinary services, some communities are forced to resort to dog culls, which is traumatic for everyone involved. If spay and neuter clinics were available so that overpopulation could be prevented proactively, there is no doubt the community would choose this option.

Much like the situation in Nibinamik First Nation, dogs suffer unnecessarily from diseases that could have been prevented by delivery of consistent vaccines and veterinary services. Zoonotic diseases like rabies, giardia, leptospirosis are of particular concern and pose risks to people as well.

Speaker, I’m sure almost everyone here has felt a bond with an animal at some point. Imagine how the mental health of community members is impacted by the absence of veterinary services, with traumatic outcomes that cause people to feel distress without witnessing the needless suffering of animals in their communities.

Turning to the substance of Bill 159, I ask everyone to consider how the people in far northern Ontario will feel if they hear about these laws that they will be accidentally in contravention of, just of where they are located. If a situation is considered to be a puppy mill because female dogs are having litters three times a year, then with an unintentional breeding caused by the non-existence of veterinary services, people in communities without veterinary services will be seen to have puppy mills. It should go without saying that this is unequitable to people in these communities in far northern Ontario, as well as animal welfare partners and the dogs themselves.

Speaker, there’s a simple solution: to provide more veterinary services. But why is Ontario not finding a way to do this? Why is Ontario hiding behind jurisdictional disputes to avoid taking any accountability or responsibility for the animals in on-reserve communities and on-reserve lands?

We need First Nations voices to be heard at the transition council when regulations are being crafted to ensure that there are not barriers for First Nations Indigenous communities and that systemic racism does not occur. We also need answers. Will dog owners who have no access to spay services for female dogs in their communities get charged under Bill 159?

I mentioned Matawa at the beginning of my remarks, who provided so much helpful insight. Everyone should go check out their Facebook page called Matawa Pets and People, where pet owners in the Matawa communities, Matawa First Nations share their experiences.

Speaker, I want to share a project. I want to tell you about a pilot project that they are in the midst of implementing until March 31, 2025, which establishes an animal services community-of-practice. This important project was a result of the Matawa Chiefs resolution that was passed in 2023 during the Matawa Chiefs Council’s regular business meetings and should serve as an example of how we can find innovative solutions to help bring more animal services to northern communities.

Speaker, Matawa’s pilot project recognizes the changes that have occurred in our relationship with our animals, especially dogs, which have been especially affected by colonization. We have new animals that we did not have traditionally, and the practice of dog sledding has almost disappeared—something I spoke about a few weeks ago as well during the debate for the vet care bill, Bill 171. The poor animal health and dog overpopulation that is often a result of these changes negatively impacts our communities. We see instances of dog bites, pack aggression, dog mauling deaths and potential for zoonotic disease transmission.

I wanted to share as well that Matawa’s pilot project also recognizes and embraces the many responsible pet owners in our communities and, in some communities, the wonderful volunteers who are helping.

The pilot project in Matawa I spoke about will do the following:

It will work with part-time animal guardians in each Matawa community to learn, to be trained and supported by an animal services lead coordinator.

They will improve education on animal wellness in Matawa First Nations.

They will improve animal wellness, reduce fertility rates and safer, healthier communities using an animal-human “one health model.”

They will provide animal wellness and spay/neuter clinics in seven of the nine First Nations in Matawa. That started in March 2024.

They will also work on getting feedback from the people in the community and leadership on how they will want to see the animal situation, complete with an animal population survey and sustainability plan for when the project is completed.

They will work with online veterinarians to learn to do rudimentary first aid, give basic vaccines and medications, as required.

They will contribute to the Matawa Pets and People site on Facebook to better educate the public on what other communities are doing.

They will advocate with governments on animal issues in the First Nations in Matawa.

And finally, they will complete a final report on a community of practices which can be used as a model for other First Nations in Canada who are both road-access and fly-in First Nations.

Speaker, First Nations in Ontario have experienced time and time again the harms of jurisdictional finger-pointing between colonial governments of this country. I know that, once again, on the issue of animal services, First Nations are in between federal and provincial jurisdictions. It’s not only that this is unacceptable, but because it results in no animal services being provided, it leads to the system for services for animals—pets, dogs—to become unjust.

I just want to call on the government to acknowledge this problem and to respond to this instead of continuing to leave our communities on the sidelines when we want to better the system for the pets that we have in the north as well. You cannot use jurisdiction as an excuse not to do anything. When you continue to use jurisdiction as an excuse not to do anything, it is very colonial, and when we talk about services for dogs, we have to acknowledge that.

As I spoke to earlier, the adverse effects of leaving First Nations out not only neglect the First Nations and neglects the communities, but put us in a position where we contravene the legislation because of the lack of veterinary services that we have on-reserve. The question is what is going to happen to the people that live in these communities when you implement this legislation.

Speaker, thank you for listening and thank you to the members for listening and also sharing my thoughts. Again, as I said before, I will be sharing my time with the member of London North Centre. Meegwetch.

The member for London North Centre.

I’d like to thank the member from Kiiwetinoong for an excellent lead-off to the opposition debate on Bill 159.

As I begin my remarks, I think of the Humane Society of London and Middlesex, who are engaged in a wonderful campaign. It’s called New Home, New Hope. They’ve been at their current location at 624 Clarke Road for 120 years, and they’re currently moving to 1414 Dundas Street. Unfortunately, it’s just outside of my riding, but it’s very close to the border. But within this brilliant plan, they’re going to have outdoor spaces, play areas. Right now, the cages that are in their current space don’t meet industry standards. It’s an old building; there’s old plumbing, there’s an old HVAC system. The capacity is 175 to 200, and the new location will have about 400.

What’s also really brilliant and revolutionary about this plan is that it really looks after the skills pipeline. It is in partnership with post-secondary institutions such as Fanshawe, so allowing training of vet techs, experiential learning, local leadership capacity.

I wanted to start off with this because the Humane Society of London and Middlesex has asked this province for $1.5 million, and it’s fallen upon deaf ears with this government, despite all of the spending that we saw in budget 2024. As it turns out, the city of London has contributed twice the amount that was asked of the province. They’ve contributed $3 million. The federal government has stepped up, but unfortunately, the province is really a laggard when it comes to funding these amazing initiatives.

What’s brilliant about it is that it will also include pet training classes, adoptions and an education centre where children will be able to take school visits. As I said, it will really look after that skills pipeline of people entering veterinary medicine. They will have seasonal camps, but also there will be a companion animal hospital that will support shelter animals as well as provide affordable vet services. It will be building the spaces that people need, whether it’s saying goodbye to a pet, which will be accessible from a certain door as opposed to the people who are entering to adopt a new family member, which will be from a separate door—because can you imagine those two people crossing paths? It doesn’t make much sense, Speaker. But unfortunately, this government has not yet chosen to acknowledge that funding request, and it really is such a pity because I believe it’s a very worthy cause, a very worthy organization. I hope this government will reconsider that.

As we look at Bill 159, there are some good measures that do come forward within Bill 159, including making certain practices illegal, such as breeding a female dog more than three times in a two-year period or breeding more than two litters from a female dog’s consecutive heat cycles; breeding a female dog that is less than a year old or failing to keep a dog with a contagious disease away from other dogs or animals; failure to keep a dog’s environment sanitary and free from the accumulation of waste; and also separating a puppy from its mother before the age of eight weeks. These measures do make a great deal of sense, Speaker. We see a few guidelines here having a minimum penalty of $10,000. However, if any infractions result in the death of a dog, it could be a fine of up to $25,000.

Now, what I will say is that these are good places to start, but many animal care advocates are asking for a great deal more from this government. They don’t believe that this goes far enough. In fact, this legislation has been called toothless. It has been said that these baseline fines are simply not enough to tackle and address the issue that this legislation in Bill 159 purports to try to solve or to try to combat.

Animal Justice has written, “One of the biggest failures of the PUPS Act is that it does not require dog breeders to be licensed.” So Bill 159 is to prevent these unethical puppy sales, but the government is not making sure that these people will even have to be licensed. So how is this going to be enforced? How will these be overseen? How will this be regulated if there is no licensing?

“Without a licensing regime,” the quote goes on, “there is no way to keep track of who is breeding dogs and where they are operating, which makes animal cruelty law enforcement nearly impossible. Without the ability to cancel a licence, authorities have little ability to shut down a problematic breeder.”

But what’s also important for us to recognize within this debate of the Preventing Unethical Puppy Sales Act is that these activities and these puppy mills, it’s not as though this is happening in broad daylight. This is not something that people are doing obviously. These puppy mills are being kept behind closed doors. They’re in places like barns; they’re in places like basements. They’re away from the public view, otherwise people would report them. It’s very rare for puppy mills to be caught and charged under current law as it stands, and I don’t know that Bill 159 will actually solve that.

Animal Justice goes on to state that these puppy mills, despite these fines, will continue to force dogs to produce litter after litter of puppies in deplorable conditions. They won’t have access to regular exercise, socialization and veterinary care. It doesn’t solve the problem that it sets out to do.

I’d also like to quote from Humane Initiative co-founder and president, Donna Power, who said this legislation is “pretty weak.” Donna goes on to state, “They’re selling it to the public like it’s the second coming, but they acknowledge to us, they know it’s not where it should be by any means.” That the legislation could bring about an end to the puppy mills is “simply not true,” she said.

Now, Camille Labchuk, who is the Animal Justice executive director, stated, “This bill will do little to nothing to stop the abuse of puppy mills in Ontario....

“Stating otherwise could provide a ‘false sense of security’ for people perusing online marketplaces for new four-legged family members....”

So, Speaker, here are experts in the field who want to be involved in the consultation on this bill, and they’re saying it doesn’t go far enough. Will Bill 159 provide licensing for people who would breed dogs? It doesn’t seem so. Labchuk and Power are both making that call. They’re asking for this to be included in Bill 159. Include a licensing regime with enforceable care standards.

Puppies are big business in Ontario, and they’re big business for breeds which are often popularized through either social media or contemporary media. I remember back when I was in high school; I think there was a re-release of 101 Dalmatians. Well, suddenly and immediately, every little person wanted to have a Dalmatian. However, not everyone knew about what that breed’s requirements were, what its character was like or what was necessary to make sure it was a happy, healthy animal. Dalmatians require a great deal of exercise. They’re very energetic animals. People had viewed that movie and thought that they were cute and they were spotted—which, yes, both of those things are true—however, they also do require a great deal of physical exercise, and when that is not provided, we see behaviours within that breed which are often deeply problematic, which is no fault of the animal itself, it’s a fault of the lack of knowledge of the owner and the purchaser.

Now, I will also point out that both Labchuk and Power talk about an inquiry that was made to the province about data on investigations. The province has simply ignored that request for investigations of this activity, and I find that curious. Should the province identify that this is a problem they want to solve, they should be able to also provide the backup to that.

Now, from my area, the London area, Laurie Ristmae, who is the founder of ARF Ontario and is also the executive director of the East London Animal Hospital, has stated—repeating what I’ve just said—“The breeds that are showcased in movies and on TV and that become popular, become very overbred and have physical issues and physical deformities that are just wrong, that can’t be fixed” because the market unfortunately responds to the demand. Breeders will see that breeds such as Dalmatians become very popular, and they want to be the ones who are able to sell them—able to make that profit. Unfortunately, they may choose to do so in a way that is cruel, that is unfair, that is unethical to those beautiful little animals.

The government has said that it’s going to bring on more provincial animal welfare services inspectors to enforce these rules, but I will also point out that in the CBC’s coverage, CBC News found PAWS inspections were leading to significantly fewer orders and provincial and criminal charges when compared with animal abuse and neglect calls, which had been dealt with by the OSPCA, the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. So that’s interesting, that the government is changing its tune and is now saying, “Yes, we’re going to hire more inspectors” because it has been discovered that there have not been enough inspections and there has not been enough enforcement. And yet, we see through Bill 159—is there going to be more enforcement? I’m not certain, if there’s not a licensing regime in place.

Labchuk is also quoted in this article. Camille Labchuk has stated, “How can inspectors ever go in and inspect a puppy mill to see if they’re complying with the laws if we have no idea where they are?”

The city of London has been very proactive on this issue. Back in 2018, they enacted an updated business and licensing bylaw. It banned pet shops from actually using animals that were obtained from some unethical places. They banned pet stores “from selling cats and dogs that weren’t obtained from a municipal animal shelter, a registered humane society or shelter, or a prescribed rescue group.” That way they made sure that the animals that were in those places being adopted, with all those young people with their fingers and noses pressed to the glass wanting to get that little furry animal home—that those were the ones that were being rehomed, that were ones from shelters. And that makes a good deal of sense, Speaker, because it pulls the rug out from those unethical players within the market.

As I also look at this legislation, it reminds me of other legislation that this House has seen, in particular the opening up of training and trialling areas in the province. I think about how it was a past Conservative Premier, Mike Harris, who made new licences for training and trialling areas illegal.

Also, I think of the testimony of Rick Maw and Wayne Lintack, who were former conservation officers who talked about training and trialling areas and how that was cruel towards wildlife, in particular coyotes. You see, training and trialling areas are where dogs are trained how to track and hunt coyotes, but these areas are pens. They are massive areas that there is no escape from. These coyotes are often tracked down, they are cornered, and they are ripped apart by these dogs who are learning how to hunt. In fact, those officers spoke about how they uncovered a coyote trade ring where these coyotes were caught illegally, stuffed into a small room in a barn and sold off to other hunters to be used in training and trial areas. Animal Justice and Coyote Watch Canada have said, “These operations subject captive animals to horrific physical and psychological distress, and also create an unsafe environment for the dogs who are trained to chase these animals being used as live bait.”

Ontario is an outlier when it comes to these sorts of what some would call very barbaric and anachronistic practices because no other province allows these training and trialling areas to use live animals as bait—except for Manitoba, which, in that case, uses live game birds. In fact, fox and coyote penning is banned in most US states. So it seems antithetical that this government is saying that they’re standing up for animals with Bill 159, the Preventing Unethical Puppy Sales Act, and then in the other case are allowing training and trialling areas where coyotes will be ripped apart and savaged, basically tortured, which—in a more balanced way—also does put those dogs who are being trained to hunt at risk themselves, because of course those coyotes are going to defend themselves in their last moments.

Really, Speaker, as we look at this legislation with Bill 159, it does do some things which are positive steps. I don’t think that the legislation goes far enough. I think that we need to listen to experts within the field who are stating that baseline fines are simply not enough. This legislation, on its own, is toothless. This legislation requires a licensing regime and enforceable standards of care. I think, if we are going to tackle the problem that is puppy mills, we need to make sure that we are able to not only know where they are, find where they are, but make sure they stop operating. These places operate under the cover of shadow. We need to make sure that everybody is licensed in order to breed dogs, so that we can make sure they’re doing it in a way that is ethical, in a way that is responsible and in a way that cares for animals properly—such as this bill purports to do. But as it stands right now, it doesn’t quite make the mark.

Thank you to both my colleagues for their remarks this afternoon on the legislation before this House. My question is to the member from London North Centre. I am a dog owner, as many will know. Does the member agree that regulating record-keeping and the sale and transfer of dogs would be beneficial to the welfare of our furry friends?

Questions?

A question for my friend from Kiiwetinoong, whose opinion I like to hear when there’s a bill that affects First Nations communities, with respect to consultation: Has there been, in your opinion, enough consultation around this bill prior to the government bringing it forward?

Thank you to my colleague from University–Rosedale for the question.

What animal advocates have indicated within this bill—they believe that baseline fines are not enough. The $10,000 for an infraction, the $25,000 for the loss of a dog’s life: While they are a start, we need to make sure that there’s a licensing regime in place; that all places that are going to foster and breed dogs are overseen by the province so that we can make sure that the care standards that are within Bill 159 are actually being enforced in all those places.

We need to shine a light into those places where these dogs are coming from and making sure they’re doing the right thing. We need these standards of care to be enforceable, and part of that is making sure we know exactly where this activity is happening.

I do believe it’s important that regulations are in place to make sure that we know exactly when these animals are being sold, who they’re being sold to. But first and foremost, we need to make sure that we have regulations in place ensuring that the people who are breeding these dogs are doing so in an ethical way, a responsible way and a transparent way by disclosing their location. We should not be in a situation where we don’t know where this business activity is happening, because it’s happening in cramped places. It’s happening in basements. It’s happening in barns. It’s happening under the cover of night. And we won’t be able to address this problem unless we know where this activity is happening.

You know what to do, government.

But this bill is toothless in other ways. It is toothless in making sure there’s a licensing regime and that there is enforcement. So it’s a step in the right direction, but it’s not a very big step.

Meegwetch for the question.

Like any other time when we talk about legislation here in Ontario, there is—at the best of times, we get very minimal or very scattered consultation. At the worst, we get no consultation. And when I was speaking with some of the First Nations from Matawa, there was absolutely no consultation in the work that they’re trying to do. They bring such valuable information on the impacts on-reserve—I guess rez dogs on reserve, pets that we have. I think it’s important to say to this government that whenever there is legislation coming through that’s going to have an impact in Ontario, you should speak to First Nations. Just because of that jurisdiction-on-reserve issue, that doesn’t mean that we are not part of Ontario. We need to come together as people to be able to address these things.

But that’s a great question.

Remarks in Anishininiimowin.

Thank you to the member from London North Centre. I thank you for your remarks. I know that we share the same kind of concern about the unethical puppy sales act. I want to learn a little bit more of your response, that we should ban breeding of female dogs at too young of an age.