I understand the member opposite’s confusion. After all, it was our government that invested $200 million to help municipalities repair, rehabilitate and expand critical drinking water, waste water, and really prepare for climate change action. But the Liberals, who she sits next to, voted no. Kathleen Wynne even said that her biggest regret as leader was not supporting housing in Ontario—something that our government is doing in a responsible manner.

When it comes to supporting wetlands, we invested $30 million in the wetlands conservation program, but her Liberal seatmates there beside her voted no.

And when it came to protecting critical waterways, this government is investing good, critical dollars. But again, we have a Liberal Party who voted no and are not getting us the support we need from their federal counterparts.

We expanded parks. We’re protecting lands. We’re reducing emissions. In fact, in Ontario alone, we reduced emissions by 86%.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. The Liberal carbon tax is driving up the cost of everything in our province. It’s punishing Ontario families with higher grocery costs, higher fuel costs, higher heating bills and more. The carbon tax queen, Bonnie Crombie, and her minivan caucus haven’t seen a tax that they don’t like. That’s why they keep voting against every cost-saving measure our government has implemented to bring affordability for Ontarians.

Speaker, we know the Liberals will stop at nothing to try to reach into the pockets of workers and families.

Unlike the Liberals, our government will always advocate on behalf of Ontarians and ensure that we are putting more money back into their pockets.

Through you, Speaker: Can the minister please share what our government is doing to make life more affordable for people in Ontario?

There’s nothing worse for people and businesses in Ontario than the Liberal carbon tax. It drives up the cost of food. It drives up the cost of filling up gas. It drives up the cost of everything. It drives up the cost of everything.

Under the leadership of the carbon tax queen, Bonnie Crombie, the Liberals in this House would rather have Ontarians pay more in taxes and earn smaller paycheques to feed their families, instead of joining our government in calling for an end to the carbon tax. That’s not what their constituents elected them to do.

Can the parliamentary assistant to the minister tell the House how our government is standing up for Ontarians and fighting the Liberal carbon tax?

Thank you to the great member from Markham–Unionville. The time to scrap the tax is now. We hear it from Ontarians, and we hear it from people all across Canada.

Whether federally or provincially, the Liberal Party continues to be the party of higher taxes. Bonnie Crombie and the Liberals are on a mission to raise taxes and make life more expensive for the people of Ontario, but I can tell you with certainty, Speaker, that this government is not going to let that happen. The Premier and this team are going to keep costs down, create more good-paying jobs and build more infrastructure that keeps our economy growing, and we’re going to do that without implementing any new taxes on the people or businesses of Ontario.

Speaker, just the other week, the federal Liberals released their annual budget, and what struck me the most was that the Prime Minister once again proved to Ontarians—and, indeed, all Canadians—that he has no intention of scrapping the carbon tax. This was a missed opportunity to join Ontario—and, I might add, other provinces and Premiers from all political stripes—in our fight to keep costs down and make life more affordable for people and businesses right here in Ontario.

But do you know something, Speaker? Here in Ontario, we are not going to stop fighting. We are not going to stop calling on the federal Liberals to eliminate the carbon tax. And we are not going to stop putting money back in the pockets of the people of Ontario.

Alavida Lifestyles is charging seniors in my riding of Ottawa West–Nepean thousands of dollars in rent and fee increases to retain their housing. A resident at Park Place retirement home has been served a $27,000 increase for this year. Another resident at the Ravines is being charged $24,000 more. Seniors on fixed incomes can’t pay these kinds of increases, so they are facing the prospect of losing their homes. And yet, the government’s response to these seniors so far has been a shrug.

What is the government’s plan to protect these seniors against price gouging and eviction?

Seniors in these retirement homes are feeling scared and isolated by Alavida’s high-pressure tactics. Some of them are even having trouble eating and sleeping.

And yet, the Minister of Housing told me in a letter that there are no limits on how much a retirement home can charge or how often they can increase the price. In other words, these seniors are being extorted on this government’s watch, and it’s all perfectly legal. So my question to the government is, why is it still legal?

My question is for the Minister of Indigenous Affairs and Northern Development. The Liberal carbon tax is negatively impacting Ontario businesses and our economy. It’s driving up the cost for groceries and fuel across the province, particularly in the north.

Speaker, we know that communities in northern Ontario already pay more at the gas pumps. They should not be forced to deal with more tax hikes.

The independent Liberals and opposition NDP need to listen to northerners and join our government in calling on the federal government to scrap this disastrous carbon tax.

Can the minister please tell the House how the Liberal carbon tax impacts communities in northern—

Thank you to the member.

It’s good news that our water infrastructure program, the $825 million which was announced in FES and the budget—the intake process closed last Friday at midnight. I encouraged municipalities across the province to apply.

For two years, I have been asking the federal government to partner with us so we can support municipalities. They didn’t see that as important as we have.

Nonetheless, we would be happy to continue to work with Niagara region. I know that there are probably several applications within the intake, and we will let the MOI staff and officials do their jobs. I certainly hope that we will be working together in the future.

I’d like to move the following:

Whereas everyone has the right to an affordable home; and

Whereas any solution to the housing affordability crisis must include public, non-profit and co-op housing options; and

Whereas successive Liberal and Conservative provincial governments have failed to adequately invest in non-market housing; and

Whereas the government has failed to legalize fourplexes as-of-right, restore rent control, and implement vacancy decontrol to make housing more affordable; and

Whereas the Ontario government is at risk of losing billions of dollars in federal funding due to its failure to deliver an adequate supply of new affordable homes;

Therefore, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario government should get back to building by swiftly and substantially increasing the supply of affordable non-market homes in Ontario.

After six years in government, members across the aisle have failed to present the people of this province with a solid action plan on housing. They have failed to inject confidence in people that they are moving in the right direction to get more housing built. But the fact is that this government isn’t moving at all. If anything, they only seem to be moving backwards.

The government’s housing plan can be summed up with one word: greenbelt. Remember that scheme? Or should we say plan? The plan that the Conservatives had put together to make their insider land speculator friends ultra rich? That plan. The so-called plan that they’re under an RCMP criminal investigation for. Ever since then, this government has been flip-flopping and scrambling to come up with yet another so-called plan. They’ve reversed every single housing policy they’ve proposed in the past year. That’s what happens when you try to ram through policy without proper industry and community consultation. And who’s left waiting and frustrated because of this government’s failures? The people of Ontario, that’s who.

Their housing plan is off to a laughable start. They’ve built only 1,100 affordable units since 2018, and that’s less than 6% of the province’s housing target under the National Housing Strategy. With this—I’m going to say it—abysmal record, the Premier has the audacity to present municipalities with even more roadblocks by saying, “No, no. You can’t build fourplexes.” At a time when we need all solutions and we need all hands on deck, why is this government saying no to options like that? The province also stands to lose—and we’ve pointed it out so many times on this side of the aisle—billions in federal housing money because of this Premier’s unthoughtful comments. Can you trust this government to do the right thing anymore? I know that I can’t.

So, yes, while we all agree there’s an urgent housing crisis in front of us, Mr. Speaker, let me be clear that the Ontario NDP is the only party here with a unique and ambitious plan to solve this issue. I’m proud of the housing plan that we have developed: a plan that’s going to help young people move out of their parents’ home and basement; a plan that will help newcomers put down roots as they start a new life; a plan that will help seniors to downsize; a plan that will help people trying to leave a violent relationship; a plan that will help people living with disabilities and people living with addictions too.

Homes Ontario is the Ontario NDP’s plan to get government back to building affordable homes for the people. We’ve done it in the past, and we need to get back to it again. We’re calling for a massive expansion of non-market housing with the aim of at least doubling the current proportion. This would include public, non-market, co-op and transitional homes. To do this, we will offer public land at low-cost financing. To do this right, we’re going to do something that this government dislikes to do: We’re going to partner with the municipalities every step of the way. And I want to be clear, Speaker, because we are listening. Our plan isn’t just to build new homes, but to also look at existing housing and implement a strategy of repair that extends the life of what we already have.

We’re also calling for real rent control, an end to exclusionary zoning, and implementing vacancy decontrol. And on this side of the House, we understand that getting access to housing is the very first step to getting so many other problems that are growing in our communities under control. Transitional and supportive housing is absolutely imperative if we want to support people living with addiction. And we also need it to address—guess what? We also need it to address intimate partner violence that is equally an epidemic.

Don’t we all remember, when just a few weeks ago at Queen’s Park, we were flooded with survivors here asking the government to take them and their concerns seriously? People fleeing harm and violence need to know that supports like transitional housing exist on the other side.

I ask you, Mr. Speaker, is asking for housing asking for too much? The people of this province are tired. They are deflated and they are frustrated at this government’s lack of vision. I hear it every single day everywhere I go across this province. As our municipalities are doing the best they can with the roadblocks that the Premier and the housing minister keep throwing at them, they know this is the time to work with municipalities as partners, not complain to the feds about overstepping their bounds and talking to municipalities directly. Honestly, if this government won’t do it, I mean, maybe the feds will have to.

With a housing crisis of this scale, we have to find big solutions that can help people find a home they love in the community they want to live in. And while this government wastes time and moves in reverse, we in the Ontario NDP are leading the charge in building the affordable homes that this province needs and deserves. If this government understands how deep the housing crisis is, if they see how stuck and frustrated the people feel, then they will vote yes to our motion today to get government back in the business of building truly affordable homes in the province of Ontario.

I actually have a few petitions here that I will briefly summarize and then pass on to the Clerks’ table, if that’s appropriate.

One is on funding public transit, which is a major priority across Ontario. I want to thank the citizens of the province who signed this and I want to thank them for their support. The other comes from Sally Palmer, professor at McMaster University, around raising social assistance rates. And the last, Speaker, concerns the issue of health care privatization that a number of residents are concerned with.

I want to thank all the citizens for raising this with me and I’ll be sending it to the Clerks’ table with page Armaan.

I’m glad to present a petition that was sent to me by the Bikers Rights Organization. Gerry Rhodes, the provincial chair, reminded members of the House that they have sent in no fewer than 6,956 signatures in total, but for this particular petition, 985 signatures.

This is in support of the Fairness for Road Users Act. Speaker, you’ll remember that’s my bill. But this is an important issue for road users and fairness.

And so, since I’m not allowed to read any part of it, I’m happy to say that, of course, I support this petition, will affix my signature and send it to the table with page Shiara.

The supplementary question.

The response, the Minister of Infrastructure.

The House recessed from 1155 to 1500.

Thank you to the minister for that response.

Unlike the NDP and Liberals in this Legislature, our government understands the burden the Liberal carbon tax is placing on families and businesses in our province. This costly tax is making everything more expensive for all Ontarians. Rural, remote and northern communities are even more affected by the higher cost of goods and travel.

That’s why it is shocking to hear the opposition support the carbon tax. But we won’t let their actions stop us from continuing to call on the federal Liberals to eliminate this regressive and punitive tax.

Can the minister share with the House the detrimental effects of the carbon tax on northern businesses?

Last week, I reported to this place that there were calmer winds in carbon tax paradise as Jagmeet had reaffirmed and, in fact, embraced the carbon tax. Well, in his second perfidious act in as many weeks, he’s now not sure he would bring forward further increases. He said, “I recognize the hardship that it brings to families and businesses.” And, of course, mum’s the word from the queen of the carbon tax.

These inveterate vacillators aren’t fooling any of us.

From Kiiwetinoong to Cochrane, from Sault Ste. Marie to Fort Severn, the message is clear from northern Ontarians: We can’t afford this carbon tax. Scrap the tax.

My friend Pascal Fraser from Kapuskasing owns Buma Apartments. This guy talks about every aspect of this business costing more. He relies on fleets of vehicles for various operational needs—increased costs for gas, maintenance, repair, tenant services.

This is embedded in every supply chain imaginable, and in a region of Canada that’s more expensive than just about any, we’re feeling it the most.

The message is clear: The people of northern Ontario are saying, “Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Singh and Mrs. Crombie: Scrap the carbon tax.”

My question is to the Premier.

Last year, representatives from Niagara region came to Queen’s Park with several straightforward asks, one of them being a commitment to funding for the South Niagara Falls Wastewater Solutions project. Although members in the region were able to get that commitment, funding was only guaranteed if the federal government introduced an infrastructure program that would support the cost-sharing structure. The provincial and federal government must each do their part, but the region stated that they must move forward with this critical project now.

This government says they want municipalities to build thousands of more homes and they’ve given targets, yet we all know when we continue to build, we must ensure municipalities’ infrastructure keeps pace. When we build more homes, we have more water waste. Ensuring we have appropriate waste water treatment infrastructure in place in Niagara as it continues to grow is vitally important to our community—

I’m proud to be standing up here today to propose and present some of the practical solutions that we have on this side of the House to address the housing crisis and the homelessness crisis.

What is very clear right now is that in Ontario today housing is utterly unaffordable. It is utterly unaffordable. It is extremely difficult to find a place that is affordable for you to rent and it is next to impossible for to you find a place that you can afford to buy. The Conservatives have had five years—really, six—to fix the housing crisis, and they have failed. I know they love to look at the federal government and they look at the Liberals and they say, “Well, you know, they’re the reason why we’re having a housing crisis.” I’m here to tell you very clearly that it is the Conservatives. You are the reason why we have a housing crisis today.

I think about the wait-list for community housing, for affordable housing, and there are—I just checked; I went to the city of Toronto website this afternoon—85,000 people waiting for an affordable home. Some of them have been waiting for a decade or longer. These are people, these are seniors, these are people who have disabilities, these are single parents. These are people who need help.

We know that up to 50% of people in Ontario are paying unaffordable rent. Now, I have been following very closely what this government has been doing over the last few years on housing, and from my perspective, things have gone from bad to worse. I, quite frankly, think this government doesn’t want the price of rent to go down, because if this government wanted the price of rent to go down, it would have happened, but it doesn’t. It doesn’t.

This government knows full well that more housing will never significantly lower housing prices to affordable levels. This government has put all their eggs in the basket of “Let’s build a whole lot of housing and it’s just going to have a trickle-down effect and maybe it will reduce the price of rent.” It doesn’t. Evidence shows very clearly that it doesn’t.

What we also know, very clearly, is that rent control does not stymie the construction of new purpose rental. I know you like to stay that it does, but evidence very clearly shows that it doesn’t.

A new two-bedroom apartment going for $3,500 a month in Toronto is never going to be affordable for someone on minimum wage. It’s never going to be affordable for a senior on a fixed income. It is never going to be affordable for someone on social assistance. It is never going to be affordable for a student. It is never going to be affordable for an entry level worker who has just moved to Toronto and is looking to start their career. It’s just not. And that’s how much it costs to rent a new vacant two-bedroom apartment in Toronto today.

It shocks me that the federal government is now sending warning letters to the provincial government saying, “Hey, you’ve fallen so far behind in your affordable housing targets that we’re going to hold back funding for affordable housing and we’re going to hold back funding for infrastructure.” That’s how bad it’s gotten because this government, quite frankly, when it comes to affordable housing, is cheap, cheap, cheap. You don’t want to invest. This government doesn’t want to invest.

And their track record is abysmal; 1,187 affordable homes have been built by this government since 2018, at a time that in Toronto alone we have 85,000 people waiting for affordable housing. You’re doing this much—this much—when we have a crisis that is huge. It’s hard to watch.

I also think about all the projects in my riding, the affordable housing projects in my riding that aren’t proceeding even though these projects are so desperate to go ahead. I think of Scott Mission. Scott Mission is in a riding—the residents’ associations fully support this affordable housing project to be built. The affordable housing project will house men, primarily men, who are chronically homeless. It is a very hard population to house, but Scott Mission has had over 100 years of experience serving that community, this community, and they have been working extremely hard to raise millions of dollars.

They already have the land to build an affordable housing project to deal with the homelessness crisis that we have in our riding. Literally 100 metres away, there’s an encampment—100 metres away there’s an encampment. Scott Mission cannot get their project off the ground because they need assistance from the provincial government and the federal government to make it happen. They need assistance. You are not going to make money off people who have been chronically homeless for 15 years. The private sector is not going to be building homes for these people. We need government investment. It’s not coming, and as a result, communities suffer.

I think about all the people in my riding who are struggling to keep their homes. I’ll give you an example. In the last two weeks, we’ve had a 90-year-old senior; his landlord keeps trying to take him to the LTB again and again and again in order to evict him. I have no idea where this individual is going to go if the landlord is finally successful in evicting this tenant, even though the landlord clearly has no intention of moving into this tiny one-bedroom apartment.

I think about Pat, who’s being threatened with eviction from her home at 145 St. George. She tells me she’s not going, but she has the provincial government and the provincial government’s laws stacked up against her. I’m worried about Pat. I’m worried about her because it’s very easy to evict in Ontario today. I’m concerned.

I am proud that we are here today calling for practical, bold solutions to address the housing crisis. The centrepiece of it is to establish an agency called Homes Ontario which will build thousands of non-market and affordable homes, where much of the initial investment is recouped over time through rent. By providing access to public land, of which the provincial government has so much; financing; and low-interest loans, Ontario can and should lead the way in building affordable housing and non-market housing.

Because if we do this, if we move forward on this, we can address the homelessness crisis and the encampments that are in nearly every town and city across Ontario. It’s not just a Toronto problem; it’s in nearly every town and city. If we do this, we can address the affordable housing supply shortages in small towns and rural towns and mid-sized towns across Ontario by partnering with municipalities. We can address the very real backlog of 85,000 people or more who are just looking for an affordable home, a rent-geared-to-income home that they can live in. And it will also allow us to build homes for newcomers and seniors and young career professionals who really want to find a rental they can afford to build their lives and their careers and their families here.

The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing likes to say that we’re going to be bringing Communist Russia to Canada. That’s one response. But when you take off your ideological blindfold and you look around, you see that other levels of government are moving forward on this very practical and sensible idea with great success. We need to take those very wise ideas and implement them here in Ontario.

I look to the BC government. The BC government has established BC Builds. They are investing $1 billion and $2 billion in financing to build thousands of rental homes on underused public land with the goal of targeting middle-income renters.

I think of the city of Toronto, with their Housing Now program. They are looking at building 15,000 new homes—5,000 of them are affordable—on 22 properties. It is practical. They have the infrastructure. They’re near transit.

I think about the federal government. Even the federal government finally—the polls are not going well for them, so finally, they’re starting to accept some half-decent housing proposals. They are allocating $1 billion to the Rapid Housing Stream to provide loans to developers who will build affordable housing, and they are providing $1.5 billion to support the construction of co-operative housing.

It makes a lot of sense. Other levels of government are doing it, and I believe it is time for Ontario to take that step and, instead of being cheap, invest in non-market and affordable housing so we can address the housing crisis that we have in Ontario today. I urge you to support it because it makes a lot of sense. What this government is doing right now is clearly not working, so start listening to us.

Further debate?

I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this bill today. As Associate Minister of Housing, I spent the last number of months laser-focused on housing and I look forward to sharing some of my perspectives.

I want to point out, to begin, a few issues that I have with the NDP motion and I’d like this chance to talk about some of the history of housing supply in Ontario.

Our province needs more housing of all types. Our government is investing in building more affordable housing, more supportive housing, and we’re cutting red tape to make more market housing get built by community home builders and the not-for-profit sector, not by government.

I’ve read the NDP motion. Some of it I agree with, particularly the first two lines: “Whereas everyone has the right to an affordable home,” I agree; and “Whereas any solution to the housing affordability crisis must include public, non-profit and co-op housing options,” as they do today. The rest, frankly, Speaker, I take exception with.

They say to look forward, you must take a look back, and what we can see when we look back is what worked and what didn’t work and what we can do to build a better future for housing in Ontario. Everyone agrees that Ontario is in a housing supply crisis, and I emphasize the word “supply.” It didn’t happen in the last five years. In fact, Speaker, it happened over the last 30 or 35 years, and we must remember that this crisis was created then.

We have had a population explosion in Ontario; I say this often. Since I was in high school, the population of this province has more than doubled. In fact, the small town of Streetsville that I grew up in was about 6,000 people. And when you talk to the member from Mississauga–Streetsville, she will say that all the farms around Streetsville that I grew up working on are now houses. What do we do, Speaker? Tell those folks to go away? I don’t think so.

We continue to see a massive housing explosion in this province, and we are doing everything we can—under our power, under our will, under our conviction—to get more homes built.

Looking back, under the leader of the former Bill Davis Progressive Conservatives in Ontario, we built houses that we needed. In fact, Premier Davis set the provincial record for the most housing starts in a single year. Then, in 1990, the world changed. We ended up with a new government, led by Premier Rae.

If you’re wondering, Speaker, there’s a reason the NDP doesn’t talk about their record. The reason is that the NDP experiment did not work. In fact, it failed miserably. The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has detailed housing data that goes back to 1955. By the time the NDP left office in 1995, Ontario set a record for the lowest—I repeat, the lowest—number of housing starts since 1955, at 35,818.

I want to reiterate that over the last year of the Peterson Liberal government, Ontario had approximately 73,000 housing starts. When the NDP took office, they inherited a good housing situation, and by the time they left, housing starts were cut in half and the NDP were responsible for creating a housing supply crisis that’s continued on since. In essence, we’ve been playing catch-up since 1995.

When Mike Harris and the PCs won government, they inherited a tough situation. After 2003 and after eight years of steady increases under Premier Harris and Premier Eves, we grew housing starts exponentially. Sadly, in 2003, the last year of our government, we saw housing starts drop. At that time, we’d had the best years since the 1980s, and after 15 years of Liberal government, housing starts waned dramatically. Under the McGuinty-Wynne Liberals, Ontario’s housing starts didn’t fall off a cliff like they did with the NDP, but they certainly did decline. Over the last decade in office, the Liberals averaged just under 67,700 housing starts per year.

Under this government, Ontario has had the best three years of housing starts since the 1980s. Starting from July 2018 going through the end of 2023, Ontario has averaged 86,500 housing starts per year. That’s almost 20,000 more housing starts per year than the Liberals averaged over their last decade in office, and dramatically more than when the NDP were in office in the 1990s.

In 2023, we set a record for the most housing starts on purpose-built rentals in a single year, up 27%. After just over five and a half years of this government, Ontario has already had more housing starts on purpose-built rentals than the Liberals through the last 15 years of their government.

Speaker, the story of housing over the last 35 years has been clear. In 1990, the NDP walked into a good housing situation and failed to get the job done. The Liberals failed to get the job done—

Further debate?

Further debate?

I’m really pleased to be able to speak on housing today and to speak in support of our motion.

Housing as a commodity or an investment is very problematic. It has cut so many people out. It has created inflated prices. It has allowed the disappearance of affordable housing to short-term rentals. It’s kicking seniors out of their homes. Two hundred seniors are losing their homes as we speak. It’s pricing seniors in Ottawa out of the market. It is dire and not how we should be providing housing for people or thinking about housing. So I’m very much in favour of the idea of housing Ontario and, really, the importance of building mixed housing and the importance of having these low-cost loans.

In the case of Thunder Bay, we have two projects: Suomi Koti for seniors. We don’t even need public land. They have the land. If low-cost loans had been available, if this government actually had something to support not-for-profit housing, Suomi Koti would already be half built by now. Giwaa On Court is another example of a rebuild of the post office. No need for public land, but they need affordable financing in order to build. It’s still on stall. Both of these projects were presented to the government. There’s been zero support, and I’m so looking forward to the implementation of our bill because these projects could actually be built, and that would be 104 units available immediately in Thunder Bay.

Co-ops: we have a long history of co-op housing in Thunder Bay. In fact, co-op everything. We’ve had co-op bakeries, co-op food buying groups. Castlegreen Co-op has been there. It is still there, and it is still a prime place to live; Superior View, newer co-op housing. What is wonderful about this co-op housing is that they are mixed income.

So we have problematic low-income housing that has wound up being a magnet for the gangs coming to the city. But when you are able to move out of there and into a co-op, where you’re no longer ghettoized, with many people who can’t afford a place to live, then you actually can become part of a community and it really doesn’t matter that you don’t have a ton of income. Those programs have been very successful, and they have moved people into those safer environments, and we really need that.

I’m thinking of another co-op which is Centre francophone de Thunder Bay, another co-op. It’s deep-rooted in northwestern Ontario.

Modular housing: There’s lots of talk of this, but we have to remember that there are different standards of modular housing. Some of them will keep to the current building code, but there’s modular housing available that goes well beyond this and is actually designed for different climates. It’s designed not to off-gas so that people with environmental sensitivities can live with it. It is designed to not have mold, a problem that is in many homes on First Nations’ communities because they were poorly built and poorly thought-out. So again, there are many, many rich opportunities available to us.

Finally, the idea of fourplexes: Why is this such a frightening notion? I’m quite sure I lived in a fourplex in Toronto. There’s lots of them around. There’s lots of them in Thunder Bay. This is not a frightening thing. It’s not suddenly an eight-storey monster in the middle of nowhere.

I will end my remarks there by saying there are solutions. There have always been solutions if you’re not afraid to embrace them. Public land or private land, but affordable financing, and we can get that housing built.