Further debate?

I’m honoured to rise today, acutely aware of the significant decisions made within this chamber and the impact they have on the lives of others. Being escorted in today was an overwhelming experience. I imagined these walls whispering stories of the rich history of pivotal moments and great leaders that shaped this province.

As I sat down here with my friend from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex, I noticed the architecture and the grandeur of it and the respect it commanded. The details in wood and the majestic windows create an environment that is both inspiring and humbling. All this only solidified my appreciation for democratic process and the profound responsibility of governance that I do not take lightly.

As I start my speech, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate my colleague from Lambton–Kent–Middlesex on his victory. I am confident that he will do his constituents and the people of Ontario proud.

I’d like to begin by thanking the people of my riding, the riding of Milton. The opportunity to serve them fills me with an immense sense of duty. I recognize that the faith they placed in me is both a privilege and responsibility. As I address this chamber for the very first time, the weight of this responsibility is substantial, and I’m committed to working tirelessly on their behalf with unwavering integrity and dedication.

I’d also like to thank my parents, who are here today, Shakil Hamid and Asia Shakil. I think I always choke a little whenever I mention them. They taught me the immense value of service and hard work and that serving others with kindness and generosity enriches both our lives and the lives of others around us.

I’d like to extend my deepest gratitude to my wife, Maleeha, also here today, who has always stood by me no matter what, and I would not be here today ready to take on this responsibility for the province we both cherish if it wasn’t for her unwavering love and support.

I’d like to thank our six children in our colourful blended family, who might well be the cause of my stress-induced baldness, but they’ve also enriched my life in ways that cannot be measured in the count of hair follicles. They inspire me to work hard to create a better province with attainable housing, affordable higher education, better infrastructure and more jobs, not just for their generation but for everyone in Ontario.

I must also express my deep gratitude to the incredible campaign team and all my caucus members, starting from Premier Ford to staffers and everyone else that came out to help me, but especially my brilliant campaign manager, Blair Hains, who is sitting right there. He led with exceptional skills and dedication. His work ethic is an inspiration. To the many volunteers, way too numerous to name, their tireless efforts were the backbone of my campaign.

I’m also deeply thankful to my dear friends: Fwad Malik; Lubna Malik; Nadeem Akbar; my sister, Muzna Hamid and my amazing nephew, Maaz Subzwari, who are all here today. Maaz is 13, and he canvassed for me among his friends in school. I’m not sure if I got any votes, but it’s a 13-year-old’s first visit to Queen’s Park, so we better all behave. Although, I’m told it’s law to be nice to us today.

Finally, I’d like to extend my heartfelt appreciation to my predecessor Parm Gill for his public service. I wish him all the best and thank him for his contributions to Milton and to Ontario.

Madam Speaker, when I was a teenager, my parents started working at Sargent Farms in Milton. That’s when I fell in love with Milton, its main street, its small-town charm and the sense of community. Despite its growth into a community of over 150,000 people, Milton has retained the same close-knit sense of community that captivated me years ago. This enduring spirit of camaraderie and connection continues to make Milton a very special place to call home.

My riding borders the riding of Oakville North–Burlington, Burlington, Flamborough–Glanbrook, Mississauga–Streetsville, Mississauga–Erin Mills and our Speaker’s riding, the riding of Wellington–Halton Hills. Yet, like all of the ridings we border, the Milton riding is also unique and distinct. We’re dealing with rapid urbanization and population growth, but we still retain a large rural area with a thriving farming community along with many rural hamlets: including Campbellville, Brookville, Omagh, Moffat, Lowville and Kilbride, all with their own rich history and traditions.

The riding of Milton is named after the town of Milton, which itself is named after English poet John Milton, which was the favourite author of the Martin family that settled in the Milton area in the 19th century. Throughout history, the Milton area has been home to many Indigenous communities, including the Neutral, Huron-Wendat, Haudenosaunee and Anishinaabeg, including the Mississaugas.

I invite every single one of my colleagues from both sides of the aisle to visit the beautiful riding of Milton and experience as many restaurants, coffee shops and walk our trails or visit one of our six large conservation parks. Today, the riding of Milton is incredibly diverse with nearly half of our population born outside of Canada. Roughly about 62% of residents of Milton work in the knowledge-based industry where coincidently I spent most of my working career. Growing up as a young person, my dream was the cliché dream of being an astronaut, but the dream died the first time a rode a roller-coaster and realized my crippling fear of heights. So I stuck with math and computer science and would have spent my entire career working in high tech if it wasn’t for a train.

I remember well once driving on Derry Road in Milton, some time in early 2009, when an approaching train caused the gate to close. I sat there—and the train must have been 17 kilometres long because it took nearly 10 minutes to pass. In all seriousness, I did learn later on that these trains can be a kilometre long. Once that train passed, the gate did not go up because a different train was passing on the other side, causing me to wait another long time.

When I got home, I was so frustrated that I wanted to do something about it, except I also had crippling social anxiety, which meant my doing something was limited to sending a strongly worded email to my councillor. Now that would have been the end of it, except the councillor sent a snappy response asking me how I managed to move to the wrong side of track without noticing it. That comment upset me so much, Madam Speaker, that without knowing anything about planning, politics or petitions, I immediately left my house and started asking my neighbours to send emails to their councillors and c.c.-ing me. That day, I only got one email. But I went out again the next day, the day after and the day after. By the time we were done, I was c.c.’d on over 600 emails. Now, I can’t be sure that that initiative caused the council to move, but the fact remains that the council managed to find money to move the underpass project up by 10 years—and I was hooked. When the next municipal election came along, I put my name forward. I ended up winning by 24 points.

To this day, I’m convinced, Madam Speaker, that if it wasn’t for that train, or had I left my house a little bit sooner, or if I took a different route, or if that councillor had validated my concerns—which is why it’s so important to respond to emails by the way—I would not be standing here today addressing this chamber. Now, as I was door-knocking during the by-election, there was one issue that kept coming up time and time again, and that was the fear that no matter how hard one worked today, they might not be able to afford the dream of home ownership. Almost every young adult I spoke with, including my own children, showed deep concerns that they were unlikely to provide their family with the same lifestyle that their parents provided for them. This pervasive anxiety underscores the urgent need for policies that address housing affordability and ensure that hard-working families can build a secure and stable future in this province.

Hearing those concerns, I was often reminded of my parents, who came into the country and started from scratch with five children. Through their hard work, they were able to provide for us—provide a comfortable roof over our heads, clothes on our backs, and ample food in our bellies. And they raised five amazing adults, if I may say so myself. I want the same thing for the next family in this province who is starting out. Whether they’re starting their lives here or whether they’re immigrating in, I want the same opportunity, which is why it’s more important now than ever to increase the housing supply, to reduce red tape and invest in infrastructure that supports our growth.

In closing, I’d like to reiterate my profound gratitude for the trust and support I’ve received from the people of Milton and the opportunity to serve my community at Queen’s Park. This opportunity is a responsibility I embrace with utmost seriousness and dedication.

I also wish to extend my gratitude to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle who have welcomed me warmly. Despite differing political views, it is clear that we are united in our commitment to serve the people of this great province. I’m inspired by the dedication and passion each and every one of you brings to this esteemed institution, and I look forward to working together to advance the interests and well-being of all our constituents from every corner of this province we call home. Let us move forward with a spirit of collaboration and determination, ready to face the challenges ahead and committed to getting things done to build a better future for our province, ensuring that Ontario remains a wonderful place to live, work and raise a family.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to all the members of the House for your warm welcome.

And with that, Speaker, I move the adjournment of the debate.

Applause.

Thank you. Please be seated.

Mr. Zee Hamid has moved the adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I declare the motion carried.

Debate adjourned.

Resuming the debate adjourned on May 16, 2024, on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

Bill 171, An Act to enact the Veterinary Professionals Act, 2024 and amend or repeal various acts / Projet de loi 171, Loi visant à édicter la Loi de 2024 sur les professionnels vétérinaires et à modifier ou à abroger diverses lois.

It’s always an honour to stand in the House.

Before I start my formal remarks, I would like to congratulate the new members from Milton and Lambton–Kent–Middlesex on—I always listen; I’m very interested to listen to inaugural debates. You will be a big asset to this place. We may not always agree, but we do all share a purpose, and I heard that common purpose in your speeches. We are looking forward to debating against you and working with you. Welcome, on behalf of us all.

This is third reading on Bill 171. It’s an act—I’ll refresh my own memory—to update the Veterinary Professionals Act. There are two schedules in this act: One is to update veterinary professionals and the other one is to recognize veterinary technicians as a profession. They perform a very important part of veterinary medicine. Just to understand, there are two main components to—I’d say two main components, with some offshoots. But veterinary medicine is largely small-animal, companion-animal and farm-animal—domestic. There are a few offshoots. Veterinarians have veterinarian teams. That’s what this act kind of speaks to: As medicine for humans has evolved from primarily simply a doctor to a team, veterinary medicine is evolving the same way, rightfully so. There are offshoots like vets in zoos, teams in zoos and teams in other places; I’m sure I’m missing some. But primarily veterinary medicine is small-animal and large-animal, which most of the time are farm animals.

It has been over 35 years since the veterinary act was first introduced, so it was high time for an update, for a redo. We criticize the government heavily where we find they’re making mistakes and where they have made mistakes, where they haven’t consulted and where they have paid the price, where they’ve had to rescind legislation, but on this act, it was pretty clear that they did. The government did a good job on consulting the people involved in the sector.

That was further reinforced through the committee process. When the people who came forward to committee—there were some issues brought up, and the government changed a few a little bit to tweak the bill, to their credit. That’s how the system is supposed to work, right? The government introduces legislation. Second reading is the first shot for members of the Legislature, both government and opposition and independent to comment on the bill and hopefully suggest changes that are needed. Then, when the bill passes second, it goes to committee, and that’s where members of the public and stakeholders, people who know more about what the bill contains or what the bill should contain than those of us sitting here—I do not claim to have the animal expertise of a vet or a vet technician or anything like that. So that’s when those people come forward. A little while later, I’ll go through some of their comments, but judging by their overall comments, they were in favour of the bill.

The comments I was most interested in—I’m going to take a side journey here. Most bills here—maybe I’m the only one who thinks like this, but I don’t remember bills by their name. When someone comes up to me and says, “Did you hear about Bill 1?”, they’ll talk and I won’t remember until there’s something—this one, I hear the working title, perhaps on both our sides, is “Cows and Chiropractors.” That’s the working title of this bill, right? Basically, because veterinary—I talk about cows, because I do know a lot about cows, and one of the issues was that chiropractors were mentioned in the bill but exempted from the regulation.

The chiropractic association came forward and, actually, explained what it meant. I’d say from our side, probably, although we were aware—I was aware—that there were chiropractic services provided in agriculture, it’s not often on the dairy farm, so we don’t have a lot of personal experience with chiropractors on the animal side. But it was brought to our attention that often on the equine side, with horses, and with dogs particularly, chiropractic services are employed along with veterinary medicine. Chiropractors have a standard operating procedure—I hope I’m getting that wording right—for animals, and they are trained to deal with animals as well.

So that—I was going to use the wording, “allayed our fears,” but that wasn’t correct. We weren’t fearful of chiropractors at all, but it’s not something that comes up—when you’re going to the feed store, at least in my part of the world, chiropractic services don’t come up a lot for cows. They come up a lot for farmers, because a lot of farmers work hard and their bodies are beaten up and sometimes they need those services, but it doesn’t come across a lot for animals.

During the hearings, the committee process, it became pretty evident why the bill was structured the way it was. In the questioning, we asked the people who represented the chiropractors. Specifically, one of the questions was about—and I’m not going to read it, because I remember the question. It was kind of off the top of my head, and it will be off the top of my head again. Particularly for racehorses, animals of deep pedigrees, the chiropractor also needs to be protected, and they are under their own college. That was good to know.

I think the people who are most satisfied with the legislation, who have been waiting a long time, are veterinary technicians. They’re actually going to be recognized. They play an incredibly vital role in veterinary medicine, a role that’s often not underappreciated by the people they work with but unrecognized by the general public, and the role of this legislation isn’t just to make them better recognized and more appreciated, but to have their actual duties recognized, how important a part they play.

I’m just going to read a list of a few of the things that a registered veterinary technician’s typical duties could include. Some of these words I might have trouble with, like the first one; I don’t use notes very often.

—phlebotomy—that’s basically drawing blood;

—anaesthesia delivery and monitoring;

—surgical preparation and assistance;

—radiography—that’s X-rays;

—laboratory work, including microbiology, parasitology, immunology and pathology;

—intensive care of animals;

—prevention and control of zoonotic diseases and biosecurity protocols;

—nutrition management;

—veterinary hospital management and client relations;

—sanitation, sterilization and disinfectant protocols and procedures;

—in-depth dental knowledge; and

—administering and dispensing medications and treatments as prescribed by the attending veterinarian.

When I went through that list, an awful lot of the interaction, both with the animal and with the owner, is done by registered veterinary techs, and that’s important to know.

I actually have a staff member who left the field of veterinary technician. One of her best attributes is her ability to deal with the public, because it’s something that doesn’t come easily to some people, but it came really easily to her. She explained that when you’re dealing with—she was in a small-animal hospital, and you are dealing with pet owners who are at their most stressed time. For many, pets are their family—for all people, pets are like their family. I think many domestic animals, farm animals, are like their family, but pets specifically. So when you’re dealing with a pet that’s sick, a pet that’s hurt, you need to be able to deal sympathetically, objectively, with the owner, and that shone through with my staff member. So this debate, also, is kind of personal for her, because she felt that at veterinary techs aren’t recognized for the true services they provide.

If you think, in human medicine, you’ve got—vet techs deliver anaesthesia. A lot of people wouldn’t think about that. You would think, well, that’s obviously—because in human medicine, we have an anesthesiologist, which is a doctor, but not so here. Until I read this list, I didn’t really think about that. So they perform complicated tasks, but they also deal directly with their owners.

And vet techs in Ontario have a—this accreditation has been a long time coming. There’s a bit of a history here, and some of it is pretty interesting. In 1967, the first animal-health-technology program in North America started at Centralia College, near Exeter. The first class graduated in 1969. So we were leaders back then. I personally had nothing to do with it; I was born in 1963—I may look older than that.

In 1970, the Canadian Association of Animal Health Technicians is set up by a group of Centralia alumni, mostly as a way to keep in touch. That’s their first organization, basically just to keep track.

In 1977, other animal health technology programs have now started, and the Canadian Association of Animal Health Technicians changes its name to the Ontario Association of Animal Health Technicians.

In 1991, it changes its name again to the Ontario Association of Veterinary Technicians.

In 1993, the Ontario Association of Veterinary Technicians Act is passed and becomes official law, allowing members to use the designation of “registered veterinary technician,” RVT.

In 2002, the Ontario veterinary technician college accreditation process goes into effect.

And in 2006, at the Ontario veterinary technicians’ annual general meeting, the veterinary technicians vote yes to self-regulation. Bylaws are passed establishing the RVT profession as the first such group in the world to become a self-regulated professional body. So, again, they’re leading the pack themselves.

In 2010, the large animal biosecurity program is approved.

In 2013, the College of Veterinarians of Ontario, the Ontario Veterinary Medical Association, OMAFRA and the Ontario veterinary technicians hold a formal meeting to initiate talks on the topic of RVT recognition.

In 2015, Ontario veterinary techs meet with the College of Veterinarians of Ontario and OMAFRA to discuss treating a working document outlining the RVT scope of practice.

And in 2020, the Ontario Association of Veterinary Technicians celebrates 50 years.

Now, here we are, in 2024, and I think we are finally at the point where they’re going to be a registered profession and where they’re going to have the credit and also the responsibility that they’re due. It’s very important.

The two people who came to the committee from the Ontario Association of Veterinary Technicians, Elise Wickett and Kelsey Streef, did a very good job of explaining how important it is, what their job entails, how important this legislation is.

They also brought up that one of the courses where you can learn to be a vet tech is actually in my riding, at the Haileybury campus of Northern College.

Not often enough.

Mesmerizing?

Oh, wow. I didn’t know that.

You don’t do it by hand anymore?

I had to quit when I lost my thumb.

Interjections.

Anyway, but it’s good that they’re exempted. It’s also good that the government recognizes that farmers, their families, their employees also need to have the ability to administer treatment, right? Because you need to work with your veterinary professionals, you need to work with veterinary technicians, but, with advice from the veterinarian and from the technicians, you also need to be able to treat your own animals. Because if you can’t, if they had disallowed that, there would be times when you either would break that regulation or the animal would die, because some treatments need to be done immediately. One is bloat. I can’t explain bloat completely and how it works internally, but I can explain it from the outside. The cow will fill up with gas and basically their organs will be crushed if you don’t do something to relieve that gas. You can put a hose down their throat. If that doesn’t work, there is a special—I don’t know what you call it; it looks like a screw with a hole in it. You can use that and—we don’t always walk around with those in pockets—if you have to, a pocketknife. I never thought I would say this in the Legislature. It doesn’t happen a lot, but it happens. It used to happen a lot more when we put cattle on pasture, because fresh alfalfa makes cattle bloat. It’s a beautiful feed if it’s made into haylage or if it’s made into hay, but if it’s fresh and you let the cows out in pasture, then you’re going to need the help of a vet pretty quick.

That’s one example, but there are other examples that you need—and for day-to-day, to administer vaccines. All of these things, you can get the vet or the vet technician to do that. And there are certain things that some farmers do, other farmers don’t do. When I had to give intravenous for a condition called milk fever, I had a hard time finding the vein. I did it a couple of times under the skin. So a cow gets milk—I’m finally finding something I can talk about that I know something about. When a cow gets milk fever—so a cow has a calf. There’s a huge demand for calcium, because milk has a large amount of calcium. If the feed was imbalanced before the cow had the calf, that calcium will be drawn from its body and it won’t be able to stand, so you will need to get calcium into its blood as quickly as possible. The best way to do it is to find a blood vessel in the cow’s neck and give two bottles of intravenous calcium. I was not very good at finding the vein so I just put the calcium under the skin and then called the vet. With this, a vet technician could do that as well, but a lot of farmers treated cows themselves for milk fever; I did it under the skin because some things I just wasn’t good at. A lot of things I wasn’t good at, but that’s another whole story.

But that’s really important that there are exemptions and farmers were happy with that as well, because at the committee—Ontario Federation of Agriculture came, Beef Farmers of Ontario came, Ontario Pork came. I missed somebody; I’m just going on my memory here. And they were also largely—not largely, completely supportive.

The one issue—and I think maybe we can deal with this in the regulations. A veterinary technician needs to work under a vet. And that’s right; we get that. But getting back to northern Ontario, we need to see how big we can make that, so, how close, because even now, the vet could be three hours away. So perhaps if the veterinary technician could be closer and somehow work—and I see I’m getting a thumbs-up from the minister.

But those are the things that we need to work out, the realities of how life actually is. We need to work that out, and I think we can. I think this bill is a step forward because you’re recognizing what veterinary technicians are capable of and what their relationship is with the vet.

Now, I’m focusing on domestic farm animals, because I have more experience with domestic farm animals and the vet than I do with pets.

I have a great story about a baboon, but I can’t tell it—

Interjections.

Just going by talking to my staff member, a former vet tech, I think the small-animal part is, on the personal level, perhaps more difficult than the farm animals, because, although famers—you need to love animals to be successful at farming, but it is our income, our job, where a pet is truly a member of the family.

And it’s funny—I don’t think I’ve told this story to very many, and I’m going to try here. I might get in big trouble for this one. I might get in big trouble.

So, when we sold the dairy farm, we moved. I have a house across from the dairy farm, but I couldn’t watch it, so we bought another house. It was the August long weekend, and I was making a parade float for—I think it was the Elk Lake Civic Holiday parade. We had two miniature poodles, Toffee and Jack, and these things never shut up ever.

Anyway, Jack never liked me much, but Jack always followed me around. So I was building a float, and a two-by-four was up against the float I was building, and the two-by-four fell, and it broke Jack’s leg.

Interjections.

I’m not going to say what would have happened to Jack on the farm, but it did change my perspective for me too. Like, I never—it’s a pet.

One of the issues for vets and vet techs is—and I can see it being incredibly hard—the difference between a commercial animal and a pet. If you think about it, for Jack, Jack lived for another two years. That’s great. And we’re not independently wealthy, but that $5,000, we could afford it. Whether it was a smart investment, I don’t know.

What did your wife say?

My wife is still my wife, so—maybe the best $5,000 I ever spent. But I thought about it after: If Jack had belonged to someone who didn’t have it, that’s an incredibly, incredibly tough decision.

It came up a little bit during the committee—not about Jack, but we put some amendments forward about making it easier for not-for-profit groups to run veterinary clinics. I believe the member from London West will talk about this in much better detail later. But I did think about that, because companion animals are often companions for people who have struggles. People who have struggles often have animals. They wouldn’t be able to deal with Jack, but cases like Jack could still happen to them. That’s a hard one to come to grips with.

Also, to train to be a veterinarian, to train to be a vet tech costs a lot of money, so I don’t begrudge that they need to recoup that money and need to make an income. I don’t begrudge that at all. But somehow, we have to find a way to make that work.

What else have I got in my notes here? I’m going to change since I don’t think anybody is going to stop me now. I’m just going to give a report. I was going to do this at the top, but I haven’t. I’ve spoken a couple of times about a local cheese factory in our riding, Thornloe Cheese. Last October, Gay Lea closed it without any warning. It really made us angry. A committee was formed. We got close to 7,000 names on a petition. They held rallies. We supported. Gay Lea has since come out and said they haven’t announced who, but the negotiations are progressing and they’re hoping to make a good announcement in the near future that Thornloe Cheese may resume operations.

So I don’t want to jinx it by saying it before, but Gay Lea came out and said that. I commend them for listening to the community. The community was disappointed. They recognized that, and they are working towards the rebirth of Thornloe Cheese. What is in the deal is the building, the quota, the recipes, the trademarks. If we can pull this off, this will be the second time. Parmalat, years ago, when I was on the milk committee, announced its closure and we pulled it from the fire, and I’m very hopeful that we are going to pull it from the fire again.

I did an interview with CTV today and they asked why Thornloe struck such a chord with people in our area. The Timiskaming area, for those of you who have never been—and you’re all welcome to come—we talk about agriculture here but agriculture isn’t the first thing you think of when you think of northern Ontario. But when you cross the hill into the valley, into the Little Clay Belt, agriculture is the only thing you see. It’s incredible.

There are many agricultural operations that sell from the farm, but there’s nothing really on the scale of Thornloe Cheese. It’s what we can point to. It was distributed across the country, it makes great products and that’s the only thing that we could really point to that actually comes out of Timiskaming. There’s all kinds of milk and all kinds of grain and all kinds of canola, but Thornloe Cheese—to be able to work to get that back, we are very hopeful. If we can help at all, I’d certainly like to make it public that if and when a new owner for Thornloe Cheese announces, we will do everything in our power to make that operation successful.

I remember when the closure was announced, the Minister of Agriculture approached me and the Minister of Northern Development and Mines approached me, because they all knew the importance of Thornloe. We will all work together to make sure that Thornloe once again not only comes back to life, but is successful and emblematic of our community. That is not 100% good news, yet but it’s going in the right direction.

I’d like to commend the committee. The committee has had some criticism. We came out really strong at the start because we needed to show Gay Lea that we were serious, but they toned it back when Gay Lea was in negotiations, because when you’re having true negotiations, you give people space. We are fully prepared to continue to do that and to commend Gay Lea and the new company, once an announcement is forthcoming.

My last issue I’d like to talk about has something to do with veterinarians, it has something to do with agriculture and it has something to do with—but it’s a bit more of a stretch, so if somebody wants to stop me, you can.

I don’t know if I’ll be able to get this issue on the floor again, but I’m going to today. We have had had a case—the minister knows where I’m going, and the former Minister of the Environment probably will know where I’m going in a second—in Timiskaming where the lagoon from a former dairy farm was enlarged, and it is now used to import raw human sewage. Now, that raw human sewage is being spread on the fields, with approval. This is with approval.

This is something we need to look at. When you spread animal manure on farmland you need a nutrient management plan so that you can prove that you’re doing it safely, that you’ve got enough acres, that you’re not polluting the land and that the crops that come from that land are safe. When you use biosolids you need a non-agricultural source material plan to administer those biosolids so you can do the same thing.

But when you use raw human sewage, it’s up to the Minister of the Environment. And I am not criticizing the people who work for the ministry at all, but we are raising the question of whether the ministry has the capability to actually administer that.

When that site was first developed, we brought it to the ministry’s attention that it actually was a former dairy farm, that there was infrastructure under the concrete, and we were told, “No, no, this is a greenfield site”—it wasn’t. When we asked if they checked the well that serviced that dairy farm—“Oh, no, there is no well.” Well, the only people who didn’t know there was a well there were the ministry and—appeared to be—the operator. Everybody else knew there was a well there. And then, they found the well, and it turns out that there was a path from the lagoon to the well under the concrete in the former dairy structure.

Don’t listen to him.

You can stop.

Like you said.

In Oshawa, we had a couple of make-the-news stories, which I have shared in talking about this bill before, about the kangaroo that came to visit. It was also not part of this bill, but some of the conversation that came from this visiting kangaroo that was on the lam, so to speak, in Oshawa was, what on earth is a kangaroo doing in Oshawa? It brought some attention to roadside zoos: the lack of oversight, the challenges both for veterinarians and people who deal with animal care.

This is a bill that we don’t have a problem supporting, but there are other opportunities for this ministry, for this government, to make strides in caring in a better way for more animals, especially the roadside zoos being one example. What are some other things that you’ve heard?

Like we said.

I give the minister credit. When they found that out, equipment went in; they dug and stopped that.

But that was a fully approved site. And it wasn’t 20 years ago. It was approved with that concrete in the plans—in the plans. Now, rightfully so, in my opinion, there are members of the public who have lost faith in the ministry’s ability to monitor that site, so now they’re asking—the comment period just closed. For the first time in 12 and a half years, our office actually commented in the comment period. I don’t know if that’s proper, actually. But the reason I did it is because the first two times I asked the question, both times the response was completely wrong—it wasn’t even “we’ll look into it”; it was “nope.” So, now, every time when they say there’s no problem, we don’t buy it. The comment period is over. We want to know, how does the ministry ensure that when raw human sewage is spread on those fields that the crops from those fields don’t end up in the human food chain? We don’t have direct access to those answers. I think that’s something we need to know. Just having the ministry say, “Everything is fine, folks”—fool me once, my fault; fool me three times—and I’m not criticizing the ministry, not really, not at all. I believe that the people who work for the ministry are doing everything they can. But the rules, to me, aren’t clear. So we don’t know where those crops are going. We do know that the company that did the spreading was fined for spreading at the wrong time. I’m a farmer by trade. They spread that liquid human sewage under conditions that no competent farmer would ever spread human sewage—

Actually, I agree with that—I said that before I started—since I know where that advice came from.

The new member from Milton, in his speech, talked about how one political issue had made him end up coming here, and I had the same thing. Actually, one of the people who I called told me to find something better to do with my time, and that was also the member from Oxford. That’s why I’m here.

But anyway, in closing, we made it very clear with second reading, we made it very clear in the committee, we’re making it very clear now: We are in favour of this act. It makes changes that people have needed in the veterinary industry, in the agriculture industry and people who have pets. These changes are good for the people who work with those animals and for the people themselves. So, with that, we are happy to support.

My final closing is that I hope that the government learns from this: that you bring good legislation forward, directed legislation, and, actually, it will result in good results for the people of Ontario. We may disagree in philosophy on some things; that’s fine. But a good piece of legislation is a good piece of legislation, and this is.

One other comment: We should look not at lowering the bar, but at expanding the bar to people who have practical experience, because there are some people are more cut out to be a large-animal vet. We need to do that. We need to find a way to do that. I don’t want to lower the bar, but to broaden the life experience bar.

Point of order.

I recognize the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs on a point of order.

I can’t believe we just talked about poop for the last 10 minutes in the Ontario Legislature, but here we are on Monday afternoon.

I wanted to give you a little bit more time to elaborate on the partnership with University of Guelph and Lakehead University, because we both agree it’s really, really great to be able to see that partnership, fostering more seats in the north and having those people stay in the north. I’m going to talk a little bit later in my remarks about my uncle, who was a large-animal veterinarian in the north. I just want to give you the opportunity to expand a little bit on that.

I would like to thank my friend from Timiskaming–Cochrane for an engaging and entertaining, but also genuine and forthright, presentation. I think it’s important that we give credit where it’s due—although I would say that we don’t see much credit coming from the government towards us in the official opposition, and I think our scorecard is quite a number higher in that regard.

I also want to commend the committee and commend the member for recognizing the work of the committee, getting Gay Lea and Parmalat to pull Thornloe Cheese from the fire. It’s a shame that the member couldn’t pull Jack from underneath the two-by-four in time, but that remains to be seen.

With Bill 171, we see that the government has engaged in years of open and transparent public consultation. How is this unlike many other pieces of legislation that this government has put forward?