No.

I do see that the government is making announcements about training, but we don’t see it in the bill. We’ve certainly heard from Truckers for Safer Highways—I’ve heard it directly from the transportation enforcement officers—that there is a need for better training for truck drivers, that there is a need for inspections. When you have so few transportation enforcement officers, then you’re unable to staff those truck inspection stations. And when truck drivers know that that one is always going to be closed because there are cement barriers out in front or the weigh scales haven’t been calibrated in how long, then we’ve got a problem as Ontarians on those roads.

So I’m focusing on trucks because when something goes wrong with a transport truck, things go really wrong. People die. A number of solutions and suggestions have been raised to this government on keeping northern roads safe. We should be seeing it in this bill, and we should hear it from this government moving forward.

The other thing is, putting these booze nooks in every single convenience store in the province, give or take, is going to put alcohol in people’s—what, gloveboxes—more easily? I don’t know. But I think the government does need to factor in prevention as well as punishment.

Look, I’d like it to be effective. We don’t want car thieves out in our communities. We don’t want people breaking the law and doing harm. I don’t know if a licence suspension is going to be effective.

A lot of these individuals who break the law on a regular basis—we learned it from the MOMS Act—those who stunt drive, many of them are driving other people’s cars. They’re driving without insurance. Why on earth do we think that they are not going to drive just because they don’t have a licence?

So, that’s stunt driving, but I think, car thieves—if you’re going to take away the licence of a car thief, what if they’re the ones who got dropped off to steal your car? Do you get the guy who drove the getaway car? I don’t know, and I’m not meaning to make light of it, but I don’t know how effective it will be. I do think, though, that making it not so easy to steal a car in the province is also a place to focus. Thank you.

Mothers Against Drunk Driving have done a quick guesstimate on the number, and it’s massive, right. Anything we can do to keep people safe is important, but also, if this is a government that is going to talk about penalties and going to talk about being tough on crime, then people who are charged with impaired driving should be able to have the criminal charge that goes with it and not dodge that, as this government has allowed.

I’d like to thank the member for her very thoughtful presentation, and for her comments. Right now, it’s really a problem of organized crime. That’s where you’re going to have to get at these car-theft rings. Just simply saying you’re not going to allow them to drive—but if they’re already stolen a car and they’ve already got a record, I’m not sure that that’s going to be a deterrent. I’m not saying that’s not why they do it. I don’t think it’s going to solve the problem.

The question that I have, though, is, we all want tougher rules around drunk driving, and the government made that very clear about two weeks ago, and then we find out three days later that they’re pleading down impaired driving charges, and then on top of that, they can’t tell us how many. They can’t tell us how many people are repeating the offence because they’re not measuring it. So, if you’re serious about stopping drunk driving, don’t you think the government would try to do something like that?

I want to thank the member for her very thoughtful, well-researched presentation and debate of one hour. Thank you for that.

I want the member to tell us how hardened criminals—people willing to rob, steal, home invade and maybe even do worse—will be deterred from stealing cars by taking away their licence. Tell us how this is going to work.

We’ve heard submissions from a government that loves to talk about growth—growth at all costs. We hear from the Minister of Job Creation talking about growth in certain industries, jobs and all that happening, but there are some forms of growth that this government doesn’t talk about: growth of people waiting in food bank lines, growth in terms of the lineups waiting for a surgery in a hospital, growth in many different ways. But there has been a growth in—I don’t want to call it a sector, but one area that incidentally dates back to the beginning of when this government took their first oaths of office in 2018, and this has been a steady growth we’ve seen year after year, increasing, increasing, increasing. It's gone up 100%, 200% and, in some cases, some have said 300%, and that—

Now, I can tell you, I was so excited to hear that we would be debating legislation to tackle auto theft in Ontario, truly something that I’ve heard government members talk about as an epidemic. They said they were going to take decisive action, and the members got up and they were proud. You could see. They stood straight-backed, ready to talk about the solutions to this scourge in Ontario. So I’m so proud because, I’ll be honest, I was a little worried, because as I’ve watched these numbers continue, and I was looking for leadership from this government to talk about the scourge, and we waited and we waited and nothing was coming up, and I began to think that the only part of the car they were interested in was its battery. But no, now we are debating legislation around auto theft to, in some cases, say that they’re going to be taking car thieves completely off the road, and I’m so excited about this.

There’s a lot of solutions to that, right. The member from Oshawa has talked about VIN registration. In fact, we’re not just a hub where car thieves from around the world are coming to Ontario under the sleepy watch of this government; stolen vehicles are coming here because we’re not bothering to inspect the VIN, right? So, of course, the legislation is going to be dealing with that, and I know that that’s what we’re dealing with here, right? It’s the VIN?

Three million dollars.

Next question?

We’re going to move to further debate.

No.

No.

Order.

Oh, okay; sorry.

So we know that it’s an issue and we’re going to stop cars at the borders, right? Now, I know the ports are in Montreal and the west coast. But people have been tracking stolen cars by police, and where do they end up? In the back of a rig, a trailer, a container. We all saw that frustrating episode of Marketplace where a guy tracked his car to a railyard and the police couldn’t get into it because of jurisdictional issues. So, of course, this is probably going to be an appeal to the federal government to deal with those jurisdictional issues, right?

Interjection.

Okay, all right, so maybe they’re not talking about that. How about stiffer penalties? When you watch on the occasion when these criminal rings are captured—it’s usually not one guy; it’s usually 20 faces. You see them on the screen, on CP24. I mean, are we talking about tougher penalties and punishments? Because, you know, it’s not just the person stealing the car. Sometimes, it’s a young person compelled by organized crime, a gang. How do they end up in these rings? How do they end up in a container? Are we talking about maybe going after shipping companies, ensuring that we get to the bottoms of these rings, and stopping it in many ways? We’re talking about that, right?

All right, so they’re not coming up with stiffer criminal penalties. How about—okay, I’ve got one. This is something that’s been working in Quebec. We know that as we increase technology of these—for car thieves, now, you just have a remote starter and they can capture your signal or they could plug into a port. There’s lots of stuff that they can do in that area. So, surely, we’re debating legislation here where this government is going to be reaching out to auto manufacturers and ensuring that cars sold in Ontario are of the highest standards and protections, right?

Government members, that stuff I’ve talked about is in the bill, right?

This is a government that really talks tough when it comes to at least blue-collar crime because we know that they consider white-collar crime as innovation in some cases, but I’ll leave it at that.

But the thing is there is no way because this is a government that loves police so much that just to spend more time with them, they’re willing to be investigated even, right? And so I’m expecting that there’s got to be more to this. Does someone have a copy of the bill?

Okay, let’s see, section 41.0.2, Suspension related to theft of a motor vehicle—suspension of their licence? Oh, and we’ve got three—so, first conviction, 10 years; 15; and then an indefinite suspension of your licence as a deterrent. That will take the thieves off the road? No, this is not possible. Is this the bill?

So, Speaker, let me understand this. Hardened criminals willing to go to a person’s home, home invade them in some cases, rob them maybe while they’re in their vehicle, or do worse, are going to be deterred by losing their licence indefinitely, not on their first—

Interjections.

No, you know what? Upon thinking about it, you know what? Maybe this is a very serious resolution. I mean, imagine never being able—and of course, we know, for a criminal, the last thing—I could see some of these hardened criminals; you could imagine them on those police shows. I mean, really, we’re talking beyond sociopathy, psychopathy. There are lines for a criminal. There are some things you’re not going to do, right? There’s a line you’re not willing to cross in some cases, and I think everyone here has got their line, whatever it is. But I could see someone, certainly a thief who’s willing to go to your house, break in, assault you to get those keys to steal your car and drive away with it—but no way they’re going to leave their house without their licence. There is no way of that. I could totally imagine that right now. I mean, some thief that day has decided they’re going to go out there and make the world a worse place by stealing someone’s car, and they’re going to get into that car; now they’re going to say, “I can’t do this. What am I going to do? Take a bus? Am I going to have to ride a bike, maybe a unicycle or, even worse, walk?”

Imagine that. Or imagine the embarrassment of having to reach out to someone and say, “Look, can you give me a drive?” “What do you need to do?” “I’ve got to steal a car.” “Oh, okay. No, I’m not going to”—and maybe other thief friends or whatnot. It would be a massive embarrassment to them to actually have to do that.

So, to give credit to the government, forcing criminals to have to rideshare—imagine. And getaway drivers are going to be put out of business. This could be an end to getaway drivers, and that is serious. That is serious. That is, I guess, a big deterrent.

This government—usually, we criticize them for consulting. Once in a while I find out they consult. Of course, they don’t always consult the people you want them to consult. So I don’t know if they reached out to the car thief syndicates or organized crime—

Interjection.

Maybe I’m not being fair. Maybe this is, in fact, a deterrent. I can see how, if you’re a hardened criminal, the one thing that you’re not going to do is leave your house without a licence. When you steal a car, when you’re about to commit crime, you’re going to ensure that you have all your full documentation with you: licence, health card, maybe passport, whatever it is. This is a piece in a puzzle of taking that away from them, so I can see that it could be a little bit of a deterrent when it comes to doing that.

I guess I would love to understand, too because this does beg the question: Who writes some of this legislation? I want to know whose angry uncle gave them this advice to put this as a solution, or what was it? Which armchair—we all got those people that will tell you how to fix all the problems.

No; sorry.

I would like to thank the member for Humber River–Black Creek for his remarks. House duty is never a chore when the member from Humber River–Black Creek is speaking.

Interjections.

On the subject of licence plates, I have to say, upon reflection—

I have to say that under the sleepy watch of this government when it comes to auto theft, the fact is most people have been left on their own. And the police divisions have been left on their own, begging for the supports that they need in many different ways: “Come on, give us help.”

Let us fix these jurisdictional issues. Yes, I heard someone say that this is a federal issue, not like—I don’t know how many government questions there are a morning; they’re literally all about carbon tax, a federal issue. But, of course, on this one thing, “No, we’re not going talk to anyone about it. The last thing is we’re going to talk to auto manufacturers.”

But when I think about it, most drivers and the enforcement agencies, when it comes to auto theft, are left on their own. So much so that I fear, on the issue of licence plates, if we continue under this sleepy watch, we may have to change the Ontario licence plate motto from “Yours to Discover” to “Yours to Recover,” because that is literally where we are. That’s what it is. That is essentially what is going on. Because if you want to get your car back, you’re going to have to track it, you’re going to have to find it in a container—I don’t know what—come there with a blowtorch, a bulletproof vest maybe, whatever else, and call all your friends because you don’t know what you’re going to end up with.

I want to thank my friend for giving me the bill. And I apologize to the government because I was really taken in. I was almost captured by the resolve they had when they said they were going to deal with this auto theft issue because they really sold it. They really sold it as an end to auto theft in the country and in the province where we continue to set records in terms of the thefts that have happened.

So, to the government: You want to say that you are the party of getting tough on crime—again, ironic, because they are being investigated. But the thing is, if you want to do this, there are solutions that are out there. They’re literally in every single newspaper. Other jurisdictions are doing it. We’re talking about the VIN registration, where we are now a hot spot for stolen cars to come in here. It’s such a fast way to deal with it. We know that over 70% to 80% of these cars get shipped out of the province. So that means in some way, shape or form, they end up in the back of a truck, on a container, at a border somewhere. We know this has been happening since 2018.

So, to this government: Please do it on behalf of our enforcement agencies. Provide them the support in this effort. Reach out to the federal partners. Maybe as you repeat the words “carbon tax” over and over again, if you literally repeated anything else—if you said, “car theft, car theft, car theft,” in the same way you talked about carbon tax, I’m sure we would actually see a steep decline. If you showed even a fraction of the energy of repeating yourself on that every single morning in terms of some of these other issues—and I could name all sorts of them. And yes, the other thing is beer. I know we heard about that. Carbon tax and beer is really what I got from them—and embarrassingly walking back legislation.

But the thing is, this should be all you. You could do something about this. You want to talk to big business? You know, I’ve raised this to government members—about talking to auto manufacturers. Let’s talk about the highest standards of theft protection in the province of Ontario. You know what I get back? “It’s not our role.” Meanwhile, they will want to talk to businesses and say they want to attract business here, so it doesn’t really make any sense. Because it seems like they will talk to auto manufacturers about batteries and nothing else. Making these vehicles actually safer so that you or a loved one isn’t on the receiving end, God forbid, of some weapon for them to get at your vehicle—no, that’s not part of the conversation. I just can’t understand that, for a Conservative government.

The last thing is to say that they must all know, Speaker, that these are really lukewarm solutions to any of this. Because the reality is, we all know that this is not going to be a serious deterrent. If a person is willing and has worked themselves up to do serious harm to someone else, they are not going to be deterred from the simple matter of losing their licence indefinitely on not just the first, second, but on the third attempt. I’m sorry, but this is not scarier than jail for criminals. It literally is not, and I think the government knows this. So, if they’re going to get up, puff out their chest with pride and declare that it’s an end to auto theft in Ontario or even a serious dent, let’s be serious: It’s not.

There has been work. There have been conversations at the highest levels. Please listen to the enforcement officers that you talk about respecting everyday. There are solutions out there, like our member from Oshawa has talked about here and in the media and everywhere else. Deal with the fact that these VIN numbers are being stolen. That is leading cars to come here, making us not just number one for car thieves but for stolen vehicles too, which is kind of ridiculous, because you’re imagining cars are being stolen from here and then other cars are being welcomed into the province. It makes no sense. It’s an embarrassment.

This is not the kind of growth that you want to see under your watch. There are actual, real solutions. Please, come back with more serious legislation. I don’t know how much time we have left in this session, but you can put a serious dent when it comes to auto theft and you can make Ontarians feel safer, whether they’re actually behind the wheel of their car or waiting—some of them literally fearful every single night that they may wake up in the morning and have no vehicle to drive to work or to go somewhere else. The ball is in your court. Come on. Let’s get serious on crime. Let’s get serious on auto theft, not this bumper sticker stuff. Come on. You can do better than that.

Under the current system, I guess, presumably, a car thief goes with their full identification, their licence and everything. They drive to a prospective home to steal a car—maybe park their own vehicle in front of that property, steal the car and leave.

And now, under this new system—because we know, there’s no way that a criminal is going to try to steal a car now that they no longer have a licence—we will actually see an increase in demand in getaway drivers under this legislation. So we may see some more openings for actual getaway drivers as a result, and this might be one of the unintended consequences we’ve seen as a result of legislation in this House. So thank you so much for the question.

Blue licence plate.

One with no licence.

Moving on to questions.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

Report continues in volume B.

No reflection.