Senator Gold: Thank you for the question, senator. I certainly will bring this particular matter to the attention of the appropriate minister. But, again, the chamber should rest assured that the government is considering all measures appropriate in the face of these atrocities.

[Translation]

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. I want to come back to the problem of Roxham Road, which is still very accessible, allowing for illegal border crossings into Canada and allowing unscrupulous smugglers to make money by extorting poor people. Despite the lofty promises your government has been making over and over again for over a year, stating that it is negotiating a new agreement with the Americans, we can only say that nothing has changed. Despite millions in questionable spending to obtain immigration advice from the McKinsey firm, nothing has changed.

On December 14, the Minister of Public Safety, Marco Mendicino, said that an agreement had been reached with the Americans. Two weeks ago, the Minister of Immigration, Sean Fraser, said the opposite. Somebody is going to have to tell us the truth. I have some questions. Who’s telling the truth and who’s lying? Where do we stand?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, your answer does not correlate with the facts. Over the last decade, we’ve seen the CBC reducing regional service to an enormous degree, simultaneously spending millions of dollars toward the digital platforms, and that is a fact. The only thing we can’t really determine is how much of taxpayers’ money they are actually spending to convert to digital.

Let’s try another question. Senator Gold, the minister responsible for your government’s online censorship bill, Bill C-11, has written a letter to the chair of the CRTC, whom the minister himself had just appointed, expressing concerns that his bill could be used to infringe on freedom of expression. Shocking. The bill is still before Parliament, so I’m not so sure why the minister would write a letter instead of just writing something in the actual bill to protect against the very thing we have been raising concerns about all along, which is the trampling of the freedom of expression.

Senator Gold, are the members of your government, the Trudeau government, unaware that they are in government and that it’s not being done to them, but it’s being done to Canadians by them? Why is the minister sending a letter to his appointee?

Senator Dagenais: This morning, the Parliamentary Budget Officer appeared before the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, of which I’m a member, and told us that he was unable to calculate how much your government is spending on welcoming immigrants because Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada has classified that information as secret. The fact that the government is hiding the amount of this spending from Canadians only raises questions in my mind as to whether there’s something underhanded or improper happening here. To my knowledge, no state secrets are at stake. I’d like to know how your government justifies keeping this spending a secret.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Leader, let’s continue in the same vein of the question that Senator Dagenais raised about Roxham Road.

The Trudeau government has done nothing — absolutely nothing — to fix the Safe Third Country Agreement with the United States and has presided over massive backlogs at the immigration department for people waiting patiently to come to Canada legally.

Last weekend, leader, the New York Post reported that U.S. National Guard soldiers have been distributing free bus tickets at the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan to asylum seekers in order to take them to our border so they can illegally enter Canada at Roxham Road in your province and that of Senator Dagenais.

When did the Trudeau government learn that American authorities are giving free bus tickets to people seeking to cross into Canada at Roxham Road? If you don’t have the answer, please get it for us. Has your government raised that practice with the Biden Administration, and if not, why not?

Senator Plett: In December, leader, the RCMP intercepted 4,689 people at Roxham Road. This is more than the total number of people who entered Canada at Roxham Road in all of 2021 combined. The situation is getting worse, yet the Trudeau government told Canadians last month not to expect a resolution to this when the Prime Minister meets with President Biden in March.

If you’re not going to fix the agreement with the Americans anytime soon, what exactly is the Trudeau government’s answer to Roxham Road, leader? Is it for the immigration department to keep giving taxpayer money to Liberal-friendly consultants at McKinsey?

Senator Gold: I guess Bill C-11 is the gift that keeps on giving, doesn’t it, Senator Housakos?

Look, the question of how any legislation affects our fundamental rights and freedoms is a serious one, so I will answer seriously. I’m not aware of the letter, so I can’t comment on that, but it’s sufficient to say and it’s the responsible thing for any government to ensure that those who are charged with enforcing the law — once this law does come into force — understand their obligations to respect our fundamental freedoms as guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In that regard, there is no need to do anything further in the law.

The government’s position has always been that the law is not a censorship bill, despite how many times you keep repeating it, senator. Moreover, anything that we pass in Parliament is subject to the terms of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. There has been no “notwithstanding” clause invoked in Bill C-11 or in any other bill this government has introduced.

[Translation]

Senator Boisvenu: It would appear that the Supreme Court doesn’t trust its judges. As recently as the last few years, the Supreme Court has asked judges to treat sexual assault cases more harshly. This means that the sentences weren’t severe enough in the past.

Minister Lametti told us publicly in committee that Bill C-5 “. . . does not affect mandatory minimum sentences for sexual assault.” Two violent sex offenders received house arrest; in that case, the Crown attorney stated the following: “. . . Justin Trudeau and [Minister of Justice] David Lametti probably have some explaining to do to victims . . .”. Once again, victims’ trust in the justice system is shattered. I remind you that the four cases cited are in Quebec.

Senator Gold, will your government explain itself to victims of crime sooner rather than later?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): The actions you described are deplorable, but as I’ve said several times during the debates on the bill you mentioned, we must have confidence in the judges to assess the circumstances on a case-by-case basis and determine the appropriate sentence. The Government of Canada has confidence in its judges and in its judicial system.

Hon. Ratna Omidvar: Welcome back, Senator Gold. It’s good to see you looking fit and healthy.

I want to shift our attention to global affairs and, in particular, the feminist revolution in Iran. “For women, for life, for freedom” has become the rallying slogan, not just for the people of Iran but, in fact, around the world — so much so that the song won a Grammy a few days ago for Best Song for Social Change.

We know the social change and slogans must be accompanied by political action. Canada — I’m very pleased to say this — has already imposed sanctions on 127 Iranian individuals and 189 entities. My question to you is whether and when the government will move to the next logical step, which is to seize the assets of some of these individuals and repurpose them back to support the people of Iran in different ways. Thank you.

Senator Gold: There is a lot in that question. I’ll try to parse it out.

Canada’s relationship with the United States is a long-standing and important one, and issues between the two countries often take some time to work through — our interests do not always converge — but the relationship between this government and the administration of the United States is a strong one.

When the Prime Minister says not to necessarily expect a resolution, the Prime Minister is being transparent, honest and open with Canadians because, as those of us who have been in business and in politics understand, negotiation is not a one-way street but a two-way street. In that regard, the government continues to work with the United States.

The other point that I think is important to make, colleagues, is that the demonization of these illegal immigrants is somewhat unfortunate and misleading. If someone arrives in Canada through whatever means and claims refugee status, we have an international legal obligation to treat them and afford them due process, both under Canadian law and international law. The large expenditures that both the Province of Quebec and the Canadian government have made in order to make sure that those who arrive seeking refuge are treated humanely and properly are appropriate expenditures under the circumstances. That is not at all to belittle the burden on the Province of Quebec and the burden on our system with this large number of folks arriving.

The Government of Canada is working with the United States and it’s working with the Province of Quebec, and it will continue to work to find a proper solution to this problem.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Well, I’m not aware of what the government has or has not referred to law enforcement. That is something that would not be appropriate in this chamber.

The government has put in place mechanisms to identify fraud in CERB. The government was open on day one, when the pandemic hit and this measure was introduced, that there would be a trade-off between making sure that benefits were available quickly, efficiently and effectively to the great majority of Canadians needing them and the recognition that there were going to be aspects of the program that would need to be corrected going forward.

The government is now in the process of doing just that, but again, those who fraudulently or wrongly claimed CERB should be ashamed of themselves and should suffer the appropriate consequences under the circumstances. The government remains committed and proud of the contribution it made to keeping Canadians afloat, keeping our economy afloat and helping Canada weather the worldwide crisis that we have lived through.

Senator Batters: Senator Gold, this was a considerable news story last week, and as the Leader of the Government in the Senate, with all the staff and budget that entails, and as a member of Privy Council, there is no reason you shouldn’t be briefed about this and ready to give a government-wide answer on this issue.

My question is simple: In total, across all government departments, how many federal government employees applied for the CERB benefit, how many of them have been fired, and how many have been referred to law enforcement?

Hon. David M. Wells: My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

Senator Gold, in early December, shortly after the Pivot Airlines crew was released after more than seven months of Dominican detention, I said in this chamber that I would be following up with the government’s commitment to a full investigation of the event. Colleagues, today is that follow-up.

Senator Gold, in the first week of November, Minister Alghabra’s office committed to a full investigation. When will the public see the terms of reference for this investigation? When will the process begin? Who will be conducting the investigation?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I have the honour to table the answers to the following oral questions:

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on May 10, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Martin, concerning medical assistance in dying.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on June 16, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Cormier, concerning support for LGBTQ2+ people.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on June 23, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Seidman, concerning the Cannabis Act.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 21, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Plett, concerning the Parole Board of Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 21, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Boisvenu, concerning the Parole Board of Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 27, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Wells, concerning support for victims of Hurricane Fiona.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 27, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Tannas, concerning federal public service jobs.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 27, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Batters, concerning the Saskatchewan multiple stabbings incident.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 27, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Carignan, P.C., concerning illegal production of cannabis — Health Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 27, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Carignan, P.C., concerning illegal production of cannabis — Public Safety Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 28, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Loffreda, concerning international students.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 28, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Mégie, concerning the Canada Border Services Agency — migrant detention.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on September 29, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Klyne, concerning the Canada Water Agency.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 4, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Marshall, concerning Public Accounts.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 4, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Audette, concerning the creation of Indigenous Ombudsperson Position.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 19, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Omidvar, concerning support for victims of Hurricane Fiona.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 19, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Klyne, concerning Indigenous participation.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 20, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Plett, concerning the ArriveCAN Application.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 20, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Coyle, concerning biological diversity — Fisheries and Oceans Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 20, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Coyle, concerning biological diversity — Environment and Climate Change Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 20, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Boisvenu, concerning illegal immigration.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 25, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Francis, concerning mandatory training for the federal public service.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 25, 2022, by the Honourable Senator McPhedran, concerning midwifery supports.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on October 26, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Carignan, P.C., concerning public servants disclosure protection.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 1, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Marshall, concerning Public Accounts.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 2, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Cordy, concerning drug shortages.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 17, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Francis, concerning children’s drug shortage — Indigenous Services Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 17, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Francis, concerning children’s drug shortage — Health Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 17, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Plett, concerning the regulatory review of Georgina Aerodrome — CAR-307 regulations.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 22, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Miville-Dechêne, concerning health care transfers.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 22, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Francis, concerning performance indicators — Indigenous Services Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 22, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Francis, concerning performance indicators — Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 23, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Plett, concerning Canada’s emissions targets.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 23, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Bovey, concerning marine protected areas.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on November 23, 2022, by the Honourable Senator McPhedran, concerning Canada’s emissions targets.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on December 6, 2022, by the Honourable Senator Plett, concerning the Canadian Transportation Agency.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Yonah Martin on May 10, 2022)

Health Canada recognizes the importance of meaningful engagement and ongoing dialogue with Indigenous peoples to support culturally safe implementation of MAID. The government is committed to working with Indigenous partners to identify and support distinctions-based priorities with respect to an engagement process at the federal level. Recognizing that meaningful engagement and ongoing dialogue needs to respect the timelines and priorities of Indigenous partners, work on pre-engagement is underway, with roundtables expected to begin in early 2023. Health Canada will complement this engagement process with existing feedback received from Indigenous organizations, including from the ongoing process of revising the MAID monitoring regulations, the engagement process prior to the introduction of Bill C-7, and Indigenous Services Canada’s engagement process on the holistic continuum of care and Indigenous Health Legislation.

On the question of the Expert Panel on MAID and Mental Illness, the panel was not mandated to conduct consultations, but rather to rely on the vast professional expertise and experience of its members. Three of the panel members self‑identified as Indigenous. Recognizing the importance of Indigenous perspectives on MAID and mental illness, the panel recommended consultation between provincial/territorial health regulators and First Nations, Métis, and Inuit on practice standards for MAID.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable René Cormier on June 16, 2022)

Insofar as Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) is concerned:

Canada has a proud history of helping to resettle the world’s most vulnerable groups. That includes the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and intersex (LGBTQI) community.

The Humanitarian Program for Afghan nationals focuses on resettling women leaders, human rights defenders, members of the LGBTQI community, and people from ethnic and religious minorities.

The Rainbow Refugee Assistance Partnership was expanded in response to the Afghanistan crisis to provide an additional 150 spaces for Afghan LGBTQI refugees between 2022 and 2024. This expansion will also strengthen collaboration between LGBTQI organizations and the sponsorship community.

Ukrainians may also stay, work, or study in Canada as temporary residents for up to three years under the Canada‑Ukraine Authorization for Emergency Travel (CUAET). Persons arriving under this special measure are provided with information about LGBTQI services in their province of destination.

Although sexual orientation may be a reason for which an individual requires protection, IRCC is unable to collect this information because it relies on refugees disclosing their LGBTQI status to Canadian visa officers. Disclosure of this information may risk their safety in their country of asylum. We encourage the sponsorship of refugees who face persecution, including due to their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Judith G. Seidman on June 23, 2022)

On September 22, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health announced the launch of the legislative review of the Cannabis Act. On November 24, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health announced the members of the Expert Panel on the legislative review of the Cannabis Act. The ministers have mandated the Expert Panel to engage with the public, governments, Indigenous peoples, youth, marginalized and racialized communities, cannabis industry representatives, and people who access cannabis for medical purposes, to gather perspectives on the implementation and administration of the Cannabis Act. The independent Expert Panel is also expected to meet and consult with experts in relevant fields, including, but not limited to, public health, substance use, criminal justice, law enforcement, Indigenous governance and rights and health care. To help inform the panel’s work, Health Canada has extended their online engagement process for Indigenous peoples. First Nations, Inuit, and Métis peoples are invited to read and provide feedback on the Summary from Engagement with First Nations, Inuit, and Métis Peoples: The Cannabis Act and its Impacts, which is open until January 15, 2023.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Donald Neil Plett on September 21, 2022)

The Correctional Service of Canada and Parole Board of Canada have convened a National Joint Board of Investigation (BOI) into this case, guided by requirements set out in the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (CCRA). It is an administrative investigation that will thoroughly analyze all of the facts and circumstances, including whether laws, policies and protocols were followed, and identify any recommendations and corrective measures, as needed. Once the BOI is completed, CSC and PBC will publicly share its findings and any recommendations.

In accordance with the CCRA, the PBC maintains a registry of its decisions and the reasons for those decisions. Its purpose is to contribute to public understanding of conditional release decision-making and promote openness and accountability. Anyone may write the PBC to request a copy of a decision made in a specific case. In reviewing requests for access to the Registry of Decisions, the CCRA requires the PBC to withhold information that could reasonably be expected to jeopardize the safety of any person; reveal a source of information obtained in confidence; or adversely affect the reintegration of an offender into society, if released publicly. Each determination is made on a case-by-case basis, in accordance with legislative criteria.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu on September 21, 2022)

The Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) continues to take meaningful action to help keep our communities safe.

Since April 1, 2022, CSC has implemented all recommendations from the Joint Board of Investigation following the tragic death of Marylène Levesque. This includes new, mandatory Intimate Partner Violence training for staff; strengthening its community supervision policies and direct supervision model; and completing a review of its information collection policy to clearly define a serious offence.

Similarly, in response to the Auditor General’s Report, CSC has implemented all recommendations. This includes the creation of a national long-term community accommodation plan; ensuring District Directors monitor compliance with the frequency of contact and special conditions on a monthly basis; a policy review about the sharing of health care information; working with provincial and territorial partners to remove barriers to accessing health care and other identification cards. Additionally, CSC is collaborating with the Department of Public Safety on work in the area of recidivism rates, including information held by provinces and territories on adult re-convictions.

CSC regularly reviews its policies to ensure the implementation of those that have been demonstrated to enhance public safety.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable David M. Wells on September 27, 2022)

Hurricane Fiona was a devastating event for many communities in Atlantic Canada, causing widespread damage to the places people call home.

In the aftermath of the storm multiple provinces reached out for help with the immediate response, and we quickly deployed Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and other federal resources.

As we turn towards recovery, we continue to offer support through the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements (DFAA), which helps provinces cover up to 90% of eligible rebuilding costs.

The Hurricane Fiona Recovery Fund will also provide $300 million to fund projects in the Atlantic that aim to repair critical infrastructure such as wharves, and to help restore the local economy.

We know that there is a long road to recovery ahead, and our government is committed to being a strong federal partner throughout this process.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Scott Tannas on September 27, 2022)

The federal public service brings together people from a variety of backgrounds, skills and professions.

Most public servants work outside of the National Capital Region (NCR). As of March 31, 2022, there were 335,957 federal public service employees (i.e., core public administration and separate agencies). Of those, 42.2% or 141,747 were located in the NCR based on the location of the position. This percentage has remained steady over the last six years.

Prior to the pandemic, most public servants worked almost exclusively from federal worksites. Alternative work arrangements were rare. COVID-19 showed us that we could work differently. With the opportunity to reimagine our work, the government has chosen a hybrid model.

On December 15th, we announced that the federal public service is adopting a common hybrid work model that will see employees working on site at least 2 to 3 days each week, or 40% to 60% of their regular schedule.

While many public servants are already working on site at least 2 to 3 days a week, this new approach will represent a change for others. To allow a smooth transition to a common hybrid model, a phased introduction will begin January 16, 2023, with full implementation by March 31, 2023.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Denise Batters on September 27, 2022)

The RCMP investigation into the September 4 tragedy continues. An October 6, 2022, Saskatchewan RCMP press conference detailed the following:

Around 04:00 September 3, 2022, Melfort RCMP received a report that Damien Sanderson stole a vehicle on James Smith Cree Nation. At 04:15, two Melfort RCMP officers responded. They spoke with the caller, who explicitly requested to remain anonymous and refused to provide a statement, numerous times throughout this investigation.

Officers located the vehicle parked at a residence and obtained consent to search the residence. Seven people were inside, one later determined to be Damien, who provided a false name to police. Officers viewed a 2014 photo of Damien prior to responding; however, Damien’s appearance changed and they didn’t recognize him.

After searching for three hours, no evidence or witnesses existed to support a stolen vehicle charge. Officers returned to other policing duties. Never during the first 911 call or following conversations between the RCMP and caller was Myles Sanderson’s name, actions or threats of violence reported.

Further information will be released in the future. A 2023 public Coroner’s Inquest is scheduled. Additionally, the Saskatchewan RCMP has initiated an internal review, being conducted by an outside division.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Claude Carignan on September 27, 2022)

Prior to the Cannabis Act coming into force on October 17, 2018, Health Canada had 44 inspectors designated under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and its regulations for the cannabis for medical purposes regime. As of October 2022, there are 63 inspectors designated under the Cannabis Act and its regulations for the cannabis for medical and non-medical purposes regime.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Claude Carignan on September 27, 2022)

In an effort to curb the production of illicit cannabis, the government announced up to $274 million in 2017 to support law enforcement (LE) and border efforts to enforce the cannabis legalization framework and to detect and deter drug-impaired driving. Of this amount, up to $113.5 million in federal funding (over 5 years) was committed to PS, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), and the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) to develop policy, ensure organized crime does not infiltrate the legalized system, and keep cannabis from crossing our borders.

The government also works with provincial and territorial partners, including law enforcement agencies, on efforts to intercept illicit packages through the mail system, limit online visibility of illicit stores and increase public awareness of the dangers of cannabis use. Most provinces and territories maintain an official list of authorized cannabis retailers in their respective jurisdiction to better inform Canadians on where they can purchase legal cannabis.

In addition, Health Canada (HC) works with stakeholders to help reduce abuse of the access to the medical cannabis regime. RCMP contributes to the effective implementation of the Cannabis Act by preventing, disrupting and investigating serious criminal activity in partnership with law enforcement across Canada.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Tony Loffreda on September 28, 2022)

Insofar as Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) is concerned:

The government has taken measures to attract and retain international students, allowing them to obtain valuable work experience that may be counted for permanent residency.

1.A temporary public policy will lift the 20-hour-per-week cap on hours post-secondary students are allowed to work while in school. From November 15, 2022, until December 31, 2023, international students who are in Canada, whose study permit application was submitted by October 7, 2022, and who have off‑campus work authorization will not be restricted by the 20-hour-per-week rule. With more than 500,000 international students in Canada available to work additional hours, this change reflects the important role international students have in addressing our labour shortage while continuing their studies.

2.A temporary public policy that came into effect on July 28, 2022, provides foreign nationals holding post-graduation work permits (PGWP) with the opportunity to work for an additional 18 months by either extending their permit or applying for a new one. The policy also affords those in Canada with the ability to work in the interim while their permit is being extended or a new one is being issued. Up to 93,000 current and former PGWP holders may be eligible to benefit from this measure.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marie-Françoise Mégie on September 28, 2022)

Detention is only used as a measure of last resort and alternatives to detention are always considered. The CBSA does not isolate detainees by way of solitary confinement; however, detainees may be separated from the general population where it is deemed necessary to ensure their health, safety or that of other detainees, or where it has been specifically requested by the individual concerned.

Bill C-20, An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments, was introduced in the House of Commons in May 2022. The Bill proposes to enact a standalone statute, the Public Complaints and Review Commission (PCRC) Act authorizing the Commission to serve as an enhanced independent review and complaints body for both the CBSA and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).

The CBSA provides input to the Government of Canada, who is the signatory to the Optional Protocol to the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and signatory to the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marty Klyne on September 29, 2022)

Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC) began public engagement on freshwater priorities and the Canada Water Agency in 2020. Over 2700 Canadians shared their views on the role the Canada Water Agency can play to help manage fresh water across the country. The vast majority of Canadians consulted support the creation of the Canada Water Agency. They supported federal policies that promote effective management and protection of freshwater resources and ecosystems; engagement with Canadians; an increased role for Indigenous Peoples; enhanced availability of data to support decision-making at all levels, and cutting-edge science to tackle freshwater challenges that include climate change impacts. The Government of Canada has also engaged with provinces, territories, and Indigenous peoples.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Elizabeth Marshall on October 4, 2022)

Under Section 64 of the Financial Administration Act, the President of the Treasury Board is required to table the Public Accounts by December 31. Subsequent to the exchange which took place in the Senate of Canada on October 4, 2022, the Public Accounts of Canada were tabled on October 27, 2022, and are available online at https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/cpc-pac/index-eng.html.

While there are no legislative requirements for Departmental Results Reports, they are generally tabled once all necessary financial and results information have been finalized. The Department Results Reports were tabled on December 2, 2022, and are available online at https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/departmental-performance-reports.html.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Michèle Audette on October 4, 2022)

The Government is taking action on Call for Justice 1.7, which calls for the establishment of an Indigenous and Human Rights Ombudsperson and Tribunal, to ensure recourse, remedy and accountability. This is an important component for ending the violence against Indigenous women, girls and two-spirit, trans, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex and asexual people (2SLGBTQQIA+).

On January 10, 2023, the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations announced the appointment of Jennifer Moore Rattray as the Ministerial Special Representative who will provide advice and recommendations, through engagement with survivors, families, partners and organizations, in support of Call for Justice 1.7 to create an Indigenous and Human Rights Ombudsperson.

Call for Justice 1.7 is a shared responsibility between governments at all levels (federal, provincial, territorial, and Indigenous), the private sector, civil society, and all Canadians. It is also related to work being undertaken on the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and other initiatives at the national, provincial and territorial levels.

Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, in close collaboration with Justice Canada, has also started to discuss this issue with partners, including the National Family and Survivors Circle to obtain their input. This work will continue over the Winter.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Ratna Omidvar on October 19, 2022)

The Canadian Red Cross is part of the largest humanitarian network in the world and has significant experience supporting relief efforts. The organization has a long history of contributing to domestic response and recovery in partnership with many different regional and federal governments, including efforts related to the 2016 Fort McMurray wildfires and the 2021 British Columbia wildfire and atmospheric events. As part of these and similar efforts, the organization has worked closely with many partners, including other community-based organizations, to address the immediate needs of residents.

We are seeing events like Hurricane Fiona become more frequent and severe due to climate change, making it more important than ever that we invest in our emergency response capacity. Recognizing the importance of supporting diverse organizations, the Government of Canada is providing up to $150 million over two years to support NGOs, including The Salvation Army, St. John Ambulance and the Search and Rescue Volunteer Association of Canada, in building and maintaining a humanitarian workforce. With this funding, organizations are maintaining a group of highly skilled and qualified emergency responders and emergency management professionals, developing emergency management systems, delivering training and acquiring equipment needed for rapid mobilization.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marty Klyne on October 19, 2022)

The Government of Canada is committed to increasing the participation of Indigenous businesses in federal procurement. Through the Procurement Strategy for Indigenous Business (PSIB) Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) is working with Indigenous businesses, Indigenous economic development organizations and federal departments to support indigenous businesses with procurement opportunities.

The mandatory requirement for federal departments and agencies to ensure that Indigenous businesses hold a minimum of 5% of the total value of contracts is being implemented over three phases beginning this fiscal year (2022-2023).

It is expected that 32 departments and agencies will meet or exceed this minimum target in this phase. ISC will collect data from all participating departments and agencies after the end of each fiscal year and will publish a report on government-wide performance towards meeting this requirement within 12 months.

The 5% target seeks to leverage government spending to help grow Indigenous businesses and improve the socio‑economic conditions of Indigenous communities.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Donald Neil Plett on October 20, 2022)

CBSA used several professional services contracts for the development and maintenance of ArriveCAN based on their expertise, and contractors were compensated within the terms of their contract. All payments related to ArriveCAN were made in line with the Government of Canada’s policies and directives on financial management and the maintenance of the internal controls framework.

CBSA provided information on ArriveCAN contracts and, unfortunately, one vendor was incorrectly reported as Think On Inc. CBSA did not have a contract with Think On Inc. and no payment has been made to the company. The amounts attributed to Think On Inc. were paid to Microsoft who performed work under two separate contracts in support of ArriveCAN.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Mary Coyle on October 20, 2022)

The conservation of all aquatic species is a top priority for Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Department makes full use of the legislative and regulatory tools at its disposal to fulfill its responsibilities and support federal sustainable development targets as they pertain to protecting biodiversity.

In addition, Fisheries and Oceans Canada is taking action to respond to all audit recommendations put forward by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development. The Department agrees that timely and evidence-based listing decisions are critical to ensuring that aquatic species can benefit from the appropriate protections. The Department will look at ways to streamline and strengthen its listing processes wherever possible, relying on sound scientific information, socio-economic analysis, collaboration with other jurisdictions, and public consultations to develop recommendations that are in the best interests of all Canadians. The Department is actively taking steps to increase the number of Fishery Officers to fill nationwide vacancies.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada’s next Departmental Sustainable Development Strategy will include a comprehensive and updated suite of actions and associated performance measurements that will showcase all the elements of the important work underway to support the protection and recovery of aquatic species at risk.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Mary Coyle on October 20, 2022)

The Government of Canada is committed to fulfilling its obligations under the Species at Risk Act (SARA). These include developing recovery plans in collaboration with provinces and territories to conserve and protect species at risk.

We seek to achieve species benefits in all our conservation efforts, be that establishing new protected areas, working with our colleagues in the United States on our shared migratory bird priorities or demonstrating leadership for biodiversity conservation on the international stage.

At the international level, Canada is committed to getting an agreement at the Convention on Biological Diversity 15^th Conference of the Parties in Montreal, which will focus collective efforts to protect nature and halt biodiversity loss around the globe.

Halting and reversing biodiversity loss requires real collaboration and partnership among countries, across society and with Indigenous Peoples; real transformative change; and a proper accounting for the true value of nature in decision making.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu on October 20, 2022)

CBSA officers regularly undertake proactive investigations to locate individuals wanted for removal. Investigations are triaged to ensure high-risk cases, such as those involving serious criminality or violence, are prioritized.

Since April 1, 2020, the CBSA conducted 1,550 investigations against individuals subject to removal proceedings who were found inadmissible for criminality.

From April 1, 2020, to October 28, 2022, the CBSA removed 1,351 foreign nationals that were found inadmissible for safety or security reasons. Of this number, 1,042 were found inadmissible under sections 36 (1)(a) and 36 (2)(a) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and had removal orders issued against them for criminal convictions in Canada.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Brian Francis on October 25, 2022)

Deputy Heads have the authority to determine the learning, training and development requirements for their organizations. TBS, as the department responsible for the Directive on Mandatory Training across the core public administration, is exploring options for a government-wide approach to encourage training on Indigenous issues, as well as on equity, diversity and inclusion more generally, in response to the Clerk of the Privy Council’s Call to Action on Anti-Racism, Equity, and Inclusion in the federal public service. This training would include the Canada School of Public Services’ Indigenous Learning Products.

The Government of Canada remains committed to achieving reconciliation with Indigenous peoples and building a renewed relationship based on the recognition of rights, respect, cooperation and partnership.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marilou McPhedran on October 25, 2022)

Health care for Indigenous people, including midwifery, is a shared responsibility across all levels of government. Recognizing the urgent need for culturally safe services for Indigenous women, the federal government is investing in midwifery in First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities to bring birthing back, or closer to, home.

In Budget 2021, we announced $126.7 million to address anti-indigenous racism, and invested in increased access to culturally safe health services.

This includes $33.3 million over 3 years to expand on Indigenous midwives and doulas, provide funding to National Indigenous Women’s Organizations, regional and grassroots organizations, and to strengthen youth sexual health networks. This is in addition to $2.1 million ongoing for select midwifery demonstration projects, including Sturgeon Lake First Nation which celebrated its first midwife-assisted birth in 50 years.

Indigenous-led projects collaborate with provincial partners to identify and address legislative or regulatory barriers to restoring midwifery and birth to communities, registration and licensing requirements, and models of employment.

Given the shortage of Indigenous midwives and barriers to accessing university programs, federal funding is being used to establish culturally safe training and funding is supporting multidisciplinary and collaborative models of care.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Claude Carignan on October 26, 2022)

The Government Response to the 2017 report of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates (OGGO) agreed “that improvements are required,” and committed to implementing improvements to the administration and operation of the internal disclosure process, recognizing that various government-wide initiatives are required, as legislative change alone would not be sufficient to effect change in workplace culture.

Since 2017, the government has implemented:

•improvements to the operation of the internal disclosure process through the development and distribution of additional guidance on its administration;

•activities to increase awareness of the disclosure regime and public servant’s rights within it, including promoting ethical practices and a positive environment for disclosing wrongdoing across the public service, and additions to the Canada School of Public Service mandatory values and ethics training for all public servants; and

•the engagement of a government-wide community of practice to share strategies and best practices concerning disclosure of wrongdoing and reprisal protections.

On November 29, 2022, the President of the Treasury Board, announced an external task force to explore possible revisions to the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act which will consider the OGGO report as well as Canadian and international research and experience.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Elizabeth Marshall on November 1, 2022)

The 2021–22 Departmental Results Reports were tabled in the House of Commons on December 2, 2022.

Although there are no legislative requirements for the release of Departmental Results Reports, they are ordinarily tabled in Parliament following the Public Accounts for the fiscal year that ended and once TBS has concluded its own quality assurance review of these reports.

TBS staff conduct a review of Departmental Results Reports to ensure consistency of information and high quality standard across departments and agencies, in line with the recommendations from the Fifteenth Report of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts (https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/40-3/PACP/report-15/response-8512-403-93)

This includes working with departments to address common issues, such as ensuring that the table of contents is aligned with the template provided; validating that hyperlinks to additional information are functional; addressing inconsistencies between the English and French versions; and confirming that explanatory narratives to support financial information have been included.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Jane Cordy on November 2, 2022)

In spring 2022, reports of supply constraints emerged in parts of Canada. Manufacturers have informed Health Canada that the current shortages of pediatric/infant and children’s fever and pain-reducing medicines are primarily due to unprecedented demand for these products, including an unusual spike in demand this past summer. Companies have increased production in response to the situation but have reported that demand continues to outpace supply. Health Canada is working closely with industry and key stakeholders to mitigate the shortages of pediatric analgesics. A primary focus of this work has been to increase the supply of these products. Over 1.9 million units of ibuprofen and record levels of acetaminophen have been released into the market by domestic suppliers in November and December. To date, nearly 1.9 million units of foreign-labelled products have also been imported to supply hospitals, community pharmacies and retailers. Health Canada is actively working with distributors and retailers to promote fair distribution of supply across Canada and to verify that product is in fact being dispensed and sold across all communities in Canada where there is a shortage.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Brian Francis on November 17, 2022)

At Indigenous Services Canada (ISC), First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, the health and well-being of Indigenous Peoples and communities in Ontario and across Canada continues to be a high priority. The use of medications past the approved expiry date is not a practice that is supported. ISC will always work to ensure First Nations children in Ontario continue to receive a high standard of care, comparable to the rest of Canada. The department has worked with regions, communities and key partners to develop patient safety tools and implement a process that supports health care providers in delivering safe and quality services.

ISC is committed to promoting a culture of safety throughout its health care facilities and to have patient and family-centred care.

In extraordinary circumstances (e.g. critical drug shortages), it is not uncommon that organizations may keep expired medications on hand in the event of an extension to the product shelf life (expiry) following Health Canada’s approval.

ISC does not provide advice to other departments with respect to managing inventory of expiring medications.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Brian Francis on November 17, 2022)

Health Canada is using all tools at its disposal to help mitigate this shortage. This includes actively working with companies and other stakeholders to identify options to increase supply. Domestic manufacturing is now at record levels and nearly 1.9 million units of foreign-labelled product have been authorized for importation to Canada. This is in addition to over 3.8 million units of product released into the market by domestic suppliers in November and December.

Health Canada is actively working with distributors and retailers to promote fair distribution of supply across Canada. A particular focus of this effort has been to ensure that rural, remote, and Indigenous populations have access to these needed medicines. Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) is engaged in meetings focused on the current shortage of children’s analgesics, including those with provincial and territorial governments, and supply chain stakeholders, expressing the needs of Indigenous people.

Health Canada is in regular communication with industry, provincial and territorial counterparts and ISC to monitor the roll out of new product and advocate for fair distribution.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Donald Neil Plett on November 17, 2022)

Transport Canada (TC) is responsible for developing and overseeing the Government of Canada’s transportation policies and programs which, in the context of civil aviation, are primarily exercised through the Aeronautics Act and the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs).

Ministerial approval for the Baldwin East aerodrome development was not required; the Minister of Transport does not provide approval on any aerodrome development, issue building permits or approve land-use applications.

Aerodrome developments subject to Part III, Subpart 7 (307) of the CARs requires proponents to consult with those likely to be affected. The intent is to improve communication among interested parties in advance of construction, allowing for concerns to be proactively raised and mitigated. TC’s Advisory Circular (AC) No. 307-001 elaborates on the consultation requirements which is available at: https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/reference-centre/advisory-circulars/advisory-circular-ac-no-307-001. TC officials review the summary report against the regulations but compliance with CAR 307 does not constitute an authorization.

A CAR 307 summary report for the Baldwin East aerodrome, dated May 2022 (Version 3), was reviewed by TC officials who determined that the proponent was compliant with applicable requirements of CAR 307 as of July 6, 2022.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Julie Miville‑Dechêne on November 22, 2022)

The COVID-19 pandemic highlighted the importance of data for all levels of government to inform public health decisions and improve health outcomes.

To create a world-class health data system, individuals should have access to their own health record, health data should be shared across health settings to improve patient safety and care, it should support health workers and administrators to better manage health systems and it can be key to informing planning and investments. Canada must overcome long-standing barriers that prevent timely data sharing, such as lack of common standards and approaches to health data management.

Federal, provincial and territorial governments agree that more work is needed to modernize the health data system, and we have been working together on a pan-Canadian health data strategy which would leverage existing governance and organizations such as Canada Health Infoway and the Canadian Institute for Health Information, rather than create new structures.

Continued cooperation will help address key issues like better planning for our workforce, ensuring Canadians can access their own health records and allowing Canadians to see the result of an improved health system.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Brian Francis on November 22, 2022)

Following the dissolution of Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada (2017), the department has seen significant changes to its mandate including the transition of additional programming which necessitated a systematic review of program alignment and expected outcomes.

In consultation with its stakeholders, Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) has renewed its Departmental Results Framework to better align services and resource allocations with the high-level results the organization is striving to achieve with its Indigenous Partners. In determining if indicators are fit for their defined purpose, the Departmental Results Framework renewal initiative assessed whether indicators were measurable, granular, timely, clear, meaningful, moveable, accurate and consistent.

Being data dependent, indicators have potential limitations related to factors such as data quality and timeliness, stakeholders’ capacity to provide data, and unforeseen disruptive events. Failure to meet indicator targets may also reflect the effectiveness of the policies and approaches used to influence results or results that exceed the department’s ability to influence them.

ISC is working to improve the quality and relevance of data and indicators by seeking input from partners, aligning indicators with partners’ priorities, and leveraging Indigenous-led data sources where possible and appropriate.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Brian Francis on November 22, 2022)

The Policy on Results (2016) sets out the fundamental requirements for Canadian federal departmental accountability on performance through the Departmental Results Framework as the foundational structure for public reporting. While core responsibilities, results and indicators are meant to be enduring to show progress overtime, the associated targets are expected to be set annually through the Departmental Plan.

Following the dissolution of Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada (2017), the department has been undergoing significant organizational changes which have inevitably impacted the durability of its Departmental Results Framework.

While goals as they relate to high-level outcomes have remained relatively consistent, departmental indicators have fluctuated to respond to transformation as well as to the evolving nature of the mandate, resulting in some indicators being discontinued or transferred to Indigenous Services Canada accordingly.

Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is currently working on renewing and stabilizing its Departmental Results Framework. Adjustments are to be expected in future years as the department is continuously renewing and developing new initiatives to respond to Indigenous partners.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Donald Neil Plett on November 23, 2022)

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) recognizes that climate change is a Government of Canada priority and is aware of the approval in other jurisdictions of products containing 3‐nitrooxypropanol (3-NOP) that have the potential to reduce environmental methane emissions when fed to ruminants. The CFIA and the Government of Canada can offer the following insights into the product submission process.

Any new feed ingredient is required to undergo a pre‑market assessment and be granted approval or be registered by the CFIA prior to manufacture, sale, or import into Canada. The pre-market assessment is conducted to ensure a feed is safe to animals, humans, and the environment and is efficacious for its intended use.

Proponents of new feeds must submit an application complete with data to characterize their product specification, safety, and efficacy. Information used to approve a product in other jurisdictions can be included in a feed application for consideration.

The CFIA will work closely with product proponents as they prepare their submissions and through the evaluation process to enable efficient assessment of these applications.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Patricia Bovey on November 23, 2022)

The Government of Canada (GoC) has increased the amount of Canada’s ocean area conserved from about 1% in 2015 to 14.66% in 2022, including 14 Oceans Act marine protected areas (MPAs) and 59 Fisheries Act marine refuges under the authority of Fisheries and Oceans Canada.

The GoC recently reaffirmed its leadership on marine conservation, committing domestically to conserve 25% of Canada’s ocean by 2025 and 30% by 2030, and to champion this goal internationally.

Efforts to establish new protected and conserved areas are ongoing. We continue to collaborate with provincial, territorial, and Indigenous governments, as well as engage with industry stakeholders and coastal communities to consider the feasibility of establishing new areas. The MPA establishment process is designed to provide meaningful consultation opportunities for partners and stakeholders and to ensure that decisions are based on science, Indigenous knowledge, and local perspectives.

The mandate letter for the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans, and the Canadian Coast Guard also directs the modernization of the Oceans Act to explicitly consider climate change impacts on marine ecosystems and species in regional ocean management. The timing of the introduction of these proposed amendments is to be determined.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marilou McPhedran on November 23, 2022)

The 2030 Emissions Reduction Plan is Canada’s first federal plan under the Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act. Provinces and territories, Indigenous peoples, the Net-Zero Advisory Body, the public and key stakeholders were all engaged when establishing the plan.

Consultations continue on key measures included in the plan such as the $2.2 billion recapitalization of the Low Carbon Economy Fund, Carbon Capture Utilization and Storage, methane emissions from oil and gas operations and Clean Electricity Regulations. The government is also working to identify and accelerate opportunities to transform Canada’s traditional resource industries and advance emerging ones.

Provinces and territories were engaged during the development of the National Adaptation Strategy that was released on November 24 and is now open for a final 90 days of engagement on the strategy’s common goals and specific measurable targets and objectives.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Donald Neil Plett on December 6, 2022)

The Government of Canada is continuing to work with the Canadian Transportation Agency (agency) in taking steps to ensure air passenger complaints are addressed quickly and that the agency has the proper tools and resources it needs to fulfill its mandate, including consumer protection for air travellers.

Additional resources were provided to the agency in Budgets 2018 and 2019, to account for anticipated increases in air passenger complaints. The agency was further allocated $18.5 million in new funding for 2020-21 and 2021-22 ($8.3 million in 2020-21 and $10.2 million in 2021-22). Budget 2022 also allocated $11.5 million to the Agency to address unprecedented capacity and resourcing challenges.

The creation of the Air Passenger Protection Regulations provides an important framework for travellers’ rights in Canada. This system has been tested beyond anything imaginable and like any new regime requires refinement.

Transport Canada continues to work in close collaboration with the agency to examine further opportunities to improve the rules, including incentives for industry to settle cases quickly before they become formal complaints to the agency; greater transparency and clarity from industry regarding their performance on passenger rights; and adjustments to the regulations themselves as required to make them more effective.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Thank you for your speech, Senator Harder.

I was very skeptical about Bill C-11 in terms of the government having an objective to predetermine winners and losers. In the case of Bill C-18, I understand the objective, and I think it’s about fairness and respecting copyright and content. But I still have some concerns and I’m skeptical if it actually does achieve that.

What would you say to critics who will argue that the web actually just magnifies and amplifies the work of those content producers? When a journalist at Quebecor or CBC posts to Twitter or Facebook, they do it because they want to amplify and get as much reach as possible for their work. Without those platforms, they wouldn’t be getting that reach.

What happens now when we jump into an Uber to go to dinner tonight and, once we get to the restaurant, the Uber driver says, “I also want a percentage of the bill tonight that you spend at that restaurant, because if it wasn’t for my platform, you wouldn’t be having this exchange?” Or, regarding this wonderful speech you just gave, when you post it on Twitter or when the Senate puts it on Facebook, are we entitled to ask for royalties from all those platforms when we’re actually using those platforms in order to propel our work?

Senator Harder: Thank you for your question, senator.

If I can take your analogy, the Uber driver who will take us to dinner would be worthy of a portion of that expense if he were providing the dinner. He’s not.

Hon. Paula Simons: Senator Harder, the bill we have before us today is not the same bill that was originally presented before the Christmas break, and it’s important that people understand the change wasn’t a mere technicality; it wasn’t a question of a sentence fragment or a semicolon. The bill that was first presented to us contained an amendment that required a company that accepted one of these agreements to have rules about the kinds of speech that appeared in print and to deal with misinformation. That amendment was defeated at committee on the House side by a vote of 10 to 1, and yet the text of that very significant and controversial amendment was placed into the bill that was voted on in the House of Commons.

Can you enlighten us — maybe this is more a question for Senator Gold — how it was that such an extraordinary and important error was made in the bill? If the bill that was voted on in the House had such a large error in it, how do we unscramble that omelette? Does the House have to vote again?

Senator Harder: Senator, that was the matter the Speaker spoke to last week. He was quoting the Speaker in the other place, who described the process that had taken place.

That was not a government error; it was an administrative error by the officers dealing with the parchment and the delivery of the bill as passed in the other chamber. So it is really a non sequitur to the discussion. I didn’t reference it, frankly, because the Speaker had adequately dealt with that situation.

You said that this bill is not the original bill. Most of my speech dealt with the amendments in the other place, which I think make this a better bill and certainly bring a broader set of stakeholders to both the negotiations and, I would expect, the benefits of this bill. But I don’t think we need to belabour the mistakes that were made — inadvertently, I’m sure — by the clerks attending to the disposition of the bill and transferring it to this chamber.

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: My question goes back to the broad principles of the bill. I say this in light of the role you described with regard to the CRTC. Having been a commissioner there, it has the ability to have open and clear hearings when it develops a regulation, it has extensive experience in mitigating the power imbalance that exists between big and small players and it scrupulously stays out of content, especially when it comes to news.

If we can go back to first principles, could you say a little more about why we need this bill? What if we don’t have this law? Will it help the small players the most? I ask that simply because we often get into the weeds before we really understand the big picture of why we’re doing this.

Senator Harder: Thank you very much, senator, for your question.

Let me reiterate that, without this bill, we will continue to see an atrophying of news sources and layoffs in the news-generation sector. That will contribute to an atrophying of public discourse.

I don’t want to be alarmist, but we ought to be concerned with the quality of public dialogue in Canada. We do know that an independent press is an essential ingredient of our liberty and our democratic life together.

This bill is designed to ensure that there are market-based negotiating requirements between the creators of content — the publishers — and the platforms that use that content to achieve advertising revenue. It’s the collapse of advertising revenue that has created the layoffs and the negative effects in the newspaper business.

Your Honour, may I have five more minutes?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dalphond, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cordy, for the second reading of Bill S-256, An Act to amend the Canada Post Corporation Act (seizure) and to make related amendments to other Acts.