(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Welcome, minister.

Minister, part of your mandate is to accelerate the delivery of broadband service across Canada to ensure that all Canadians, no matter where they live, have access to high-speed internet. Yet I must note that this is another area in which your Liberal-NDP government has promised a lot of funding, but for which tangible results remain obscure. According to the Canadian Radio‑television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, over 50% of rural households still do not have access to high-speed internet.

Minister, how much longer will these households need to wait?

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you.

I would first like to acknowledge the new senator in the room, and welcome her to her seat. It is a pleasure to be working with you, Senator Greenwood. Welcome to the Red Chamber. It is also my pleasure to be here today.

With regard to your question, since 2015 we have supported projects that will bring improved connectivity to over 1.7 million people. In 2014, when we formed government, only 79% of Canadians were connected to affordable, reliable internet. Today, over 93% are connected. We have made $7.6 billion available to improve connectivity across the country.

I have made a promise to connect 98% of Canada by 2026. We are well under way to do that, and we will have the rest of the country connected by 2030.

Senator Plett: Minister, I’m aware that your government made another funding announcement in November — this time of $475 million for rural high-speed internet access. That does not negate what I mentioned earlier: Aside from your promises, the fact remains that over 50% of rural households are still without reliable internet access, despite billions of dollars being announced for funding.

Can you tell us specifically what mechanisms are being put in place to ensure this funding is implemented for the benefit of those communities, aside from just throwing more money at the problem?

You might have noted that, over the last few years, since we started the Universal Broadband Fund, we have had many programs out there: We have Connect to Innovate, and funding available through the Canada Infrastructure Bank. I’m very proud that we have also signed six memoranda of understanding with Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, Alberta, Newfoundland and Labrador and Prince Edward Island. That has proven to work exceptionally well, because it is actually getting out, working with the provinces and getting communities connected.

A third of the money of the Rapid Response Stream, one of the components of the Universal Broadband Fund, went to Indigenous communities. Another third of the Rapid Response Stream went to small internet-service providers, or ISPs, that were focused in rural and remote communities. The final third went to the larger ISPs.

It is a daunting task, but I can say that we have put more of a concerted effort into connecting Canada than any other previous governments combined, and we are getting it done.

Hon. Elizabeth Marshall: Minister, welcome to the Senate of Canada.

Minister, on November 22, your government announced its intention to impose an expensive carbon tax on the people of Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and our mutual home province of Newfoundland and Labrador. In Atlantic Canada, more than 300,000 homes’ sole option for heating is oil. Our premier in Newfoundland and Labrador wanted a carbon tax exemption on home heating fuels. He said that a carbon tax would place “undue economic burdens on the people of this province,” and he indicated the impacts it would have, especially on the elderly, rural and low-income residents who rely on burning oil to heat their homes. The increased cost of this tax, on average, means an extra $900 per year per household by 2030.

As minister, you have a responsibility to pursue and advance initiatives that recognize the unique realities and challenges faced by our communities. As a member of Parliament from Newfoundland and Labrador, how can you justify supporting these measures that will hurt our fellow Newfoundlanders and Labradorians?

Hon. Karen Sorensen: Welcome, minister.

Canada’s unparalleled natural beauty and pristine wildlife make us a top destination for visitors from around the world — which I saw first-hand when I worked in the tourism and hospitality industry in Banff, and as I have travelled throughout our nation, including to your fantastic province of Newfoundland and Labrador this past summer.

Ecotourism and outdoor experiences generate revenues and create jobs in many rural and remote communities across the country, including Indigenous communities that use authentic experiences as a vehicle for cultural revitalization. Many of the communities that rely upon income from tourists struggled mightily throughout the pandemic, and are working hard to recover.

Could you expand on how the government is supporting tourism development in rural and remote communities?

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator. Trust me, I get it. I used to say, when I first came to Ottawa, you could fit six Prince Edward Islands in my riding, and then I realized that people didn’t have a clue how big Prince Edward Island is. Now I say that my riding is bigger than Switzerland. I have over 200 communities, and 5 of those are accessible by boat only. Of course, our island of Newfoundland is only accessible by ferry service.

Since I have been minister, I have done over 70 round tables — with people from coast to coast to coast — focused on many things. One of them was on rural transit. We had a deep discussion of how things have changed since the pandemic. Yes, you are correct: Transit was an issue in rural Canada long before the pandemic, but I think that the pandemic has ripped off the Band-Aid because we’re now seeing more and more people wanting to move to rural areas.

I have regular discussions with my colleagues Minister Alghabra for Transport and Minister LeBlanc for Infrastructure and Communities. We work with the provinces and territories on how we can create a rural transit plan for the country. Mr. LeBlanc has a Rural Transit Solutions Fund that he announced last year, and the applications are being reviewed now.

But we have to make sure that it works for all rural Canadians — not just those closer to a large centre.

Hon. Mohamed-Iqbal Ravalia: A pleasure to see you, minister, and thank you for being here today.

My question today is regarding health in general and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, or FASD, which is a diagnostic term used to describe the broad spectrum of presentations and disabilities resulting from exposure to alcohol in utero.

There are little or no FASD multidisciplinary diagnostic teams in rural regions of Canada. Families often have difficulty accessing their services, and, because of the lack of clinics available and the distance rural residents have to travel, it is often a huge burden to them.

As outlined in Canada’s Rural Economic Development Strategy, since 2015 the federal government has made investments in rural communities, including efforts to improve connectivity through affordable high-speed internet and enhanced infrastructure to improve education and health facilities.

Would you please speak to what measures are being taken to improve access to health diagnostic clinics in general but, in particular, for support for individuals with FASD and other more complex health issues?

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, Senator Ravalia. Earlier I alluded to the round tables I have done. Trust me, I have done quite a few on rural health care. It is interesting how people say it is not just money that will fix the problem. We need to encourage people, be it doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, specialists or mental health specialists, to get into rural communities. Everyone says that we need a hub system because you cannot have one person go to a remote area — look, it will be burnout in no time. We have to work with the provinces and territories to get the hub system in these rural parts of the country.

The digital equation that we are delivering on high-speed broadband to the rural communities is going to help to a certain extent. But there is no better than face-to-face access to health care.

On your specific issue of fetal alcohol syndrome, we have a raging problem throughout Canada, and it is in rural Canada with alcohol and substance abuse.

I know my colleague was in the room here, Minister Bennett. I know that she is focused on what we can do with mental health and addictions, and I will work with her every step of the way and I’ll be watching what you do on this important file as well, senator.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Black, that is an amazing question and it follows on your colleague’s question as well.

It is interesting, too. One of the round tables that I have done was with the agricultural sector, and they brought that specific thing up. It has been challenging times. They have seen floods, and they have seen droughts. Interestingly, with the hurricane that hit in my riding, mental health supports were needed there at that time to get people through the shock of seeing 100-foot waves. The province did a great job of transporting people from major centres to the rural centres. But that was an awakening, too, that this needs to be addressed in rural Canada. Sadly, often it takes a disaster or catastrophe for us to work on these issues. I talk regularly with Minister Bennett on how we address this.

I had a great chat when I was in rural Manitoba earlier this year. I sat down with a group of kids whose specialty in their high school and their post-secondary school is how we address the rural issues of mental care.

It is on my radar, sir. I will continue to work with Minister Bennett and keep you posted as to our progress and support you in any way I can.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: That is a wonderful question. It is dear to my heart, senator, because it would be in the northern part of my riding and connected to mainland Canada.

This conversation has been going on for many years in our province of Newfoundland and Labrador. What is interesting is that technologies have changed over the years. My counterpart and friend Minister O’Regan was in Norway a few months ago and visited a subsea tunnel that was built at a quarter of the price that was estimated 20 years ago. So the prices are coming down.

On your question about the costs of this, as Newfoundland and Labrador MPs, we’ve had reach-out from people in the business sector, asking, “Would the Canada Infrastructure Bank please do a request for interest, because we are interested in doing this?”

I think that that is the best way to do it. It will not be money from the provincial government. It will be a loan, as you know, from the Canada Infrastructure Bank. But there is interest from the private sector to get this done. They see it as looking after our oceans with the whales issue. We are looking at how we get the transit, we’re doing transborder traffic and we’re doing traffic of goods and services from all over the world.

I think you are going to see this fixed link come, and it will be a public-private partnership and it will be through business driving this. At the end of the day, senator, if business is not supporting this, it cannot be a wish of the federal government. It has to be business supporting it, and they are telling us that this is what they need to see the movement of goods from Europe, especially now with the Northwest Passage opening up.

Hon. Judith G. Seidman: Minister, thank you for being with us today. I would like to pursue the mental health issue, if I might.

The University of Guelph recently released a study indicating that the mental health of Canadian farmers is worse than it was five years ago and worse than that of the general population in every way. Stress, anxiety, depression, emotional exhaustion and suicide ideation are all higher among farmers than the national average and highest among women farmers.

Your mandate letter from the Prime Minister states:

Support the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions to explore pathways to increase the accessibility of mental health services in rural areas.

Minister, might you tell us about your government’s plan to improve the mental health of our farmers and, specifically, any concrete actions taken since your appointment as minister?

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Plett, thank you for the question.

This is important to my riding as well. I have 87 volunteer fire departments in my riding. I have one paid fire department, so I hear from volunteer fire departments all the time.

I’ll get the exact number for you, but I can tell you that as Minister LeBlanc is developing his new infrastructure program to work with provinces and territories and municipalities, we were talking just about how we can make sure that these small projects that mean so much in small, rural communities — maybe it’s $200,000 or $300,000 or $400,000, which would be nothing to Ottawa, but we know how important it is in these small communities.

I have a commitment from Minister LeBlanc that we will look at how small communities can avail themselves of these funds if they want to use them for a fire hall, if they want to use them for connectivity or if they want to use them for a community centre. We know that small funds that get out into rural Canada will have a difference on rural lives.

I will get you the exact number on what has happened in fire halls. I supported my friend MP Kody Blois on that as well.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): A report from CBC indicates, minister, that sky-high inflation is causing more people to turn to rural food banks, and, in fact, this is something we are seeing across the country as food bank usage reached its highest level in Canadian history this year.

While this is an issue affecting all Canadians, it is not uncommon to have differences in inflation rates throughout the country. For many Canadians living in remote communities, many of whom are low-income or seniors on fixed incomes, the effects of inflation are felt all the more pointedly. Gas price increases likely come as a huge blow, as they depend on their vehicles for day-to-day activities and do not have the luxury of public transportation, as you indicated earlier.

As the minister on this file, can you tell me where the inflation rate currently stands in rural Canada and what kind of practical impacts it is having on rural Canadians?

Hon. Lucie Moncion: Welcome to the Senate, minister.

In your mandate letter, the Prime Minister asks you to do the following:

 . . . continue to implement the Rural Economic Development Strategy to build on existing investments . . . and identify improvements that could be made to programs, policies and future investments to benefit rural communities.

We know that financial cooperatives are generally the last to be consulted when it comes to program and policy development. I am thinking in particular of the Canada Emergency Business Account, or CEBA, during COVID-19. The government eventually made members of these institutions eligible, but they had to work hard to make themselves heard.

Nevertheless, these financial institutions represent nearly one quarter, or 21%, of the Canadian SME market share. Their belated inclusion in critical discussions is hampering rural economic development.

In keeping with the spirit of the objectives set out in your mandate letter, can you tell us how your government intends to consult financial cooperatives systematically rather than belatedly?

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Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator. That is a great question. One thing that I did as soon as I was appointed minister with this portfolio — there is a Centre for Rural Economic Development already established. I sat down with the team and I asked, “Who do we have on the ground? Who do we have actually out working with businesses, banking institutes, not‑for‑profits, communities and Indigenous communities?” I am pleased to say that now we have 22 people in that department, and there are some on the ground in rural Canada from coast to coast to coast. We also work with regional developments associations, with BDC and, of course, with all of the other ministries in this field.

The reality is that banking is different in rural Canada. We have to work with the Canadian Bankers Association, or CBA, and all aspects to make sure that we develop and deliver to rural Canadians. I have tasked my team in the Centre for Rural Economic Development to make sure that they get out to every field because if we are not delivering the services that rural Canadians need to grow the economy, to help farmers, to help fishers and to help the tourism sector and the mining industry, we are not going to get there. They are a vital part of working with all of the groups on the ground to make a difference in rural and economic development from coast to coast to coast.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you so much for that question, my friend. You know just as well as I do that the financial sector is becoming increasingly digitalized, and we have to make sure that the standards are modernized to ensure that every part of Canada enjoys a strong, stable and innovative financial sector.

We also have to make sure and realize that for every Canadian, no matter where they live, the financial sector is globally competitive, promotes consumer choice and contributes to economic growth. That is why I was delighted when our government launched the Advisory Committee on Open Banking. I am sure that you know that the lead on that is Abraham Tachjian, who has done phenomenal work with stakeholders, consumer organizations and regulators. The four pillars of the committee’s report is on accreditation, liability, privacy and security.

The government is reviewing the committee’s recommendations and developing the next steps to move forward. I know that you will play an active role in that along the way, sir.

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Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator. That is an incredible question because it alludes to what I mentioned earlier about the terrible drug problem that we have in rural Canada. As you know, Canada Post is a Crown corporation, but I will be following that bill’s progress to the detail. I know that is exactly how some of the drugs are getting into these rural communities.

The other thing that I am delighted to see is that Canada Post is now looking at a different way to do business. They’ve started Canada Post hubs. They are piloting these new projects. There are four — one in Membertou, Nova Scotia, one in Alberta, one in Saskatchewan and one in Ontario — where they are looking at being more service-centred. There could be electric vehicle charging stations, money services, maybe rentable meeting rooms, having access to local businesses and community information and secure access to postal and parcel boxes. I think that as we see these hubs grow, you will see more people in these areas, and hopefully, we can get that under control.

As you know, it would be a policing issue. Again, I’m sure that we’re going to have a talk about policing in rural areas as well because that is totally different. But I will be watching the progress of that bill, and I’ll be watching you watch it with me, sir.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Black, thank you for that. This is a passion for me. As you know by now, my riding is bigger than Switzerland. There is one town that has two small buses about the size of the parliamentary buses, and I have three communities that have a taxi service. There is no Uber in Newfoundland and Labrador. There are a couple of what I would call “mom and pop” van services running from a small rural community to a bigger community to help seniors, to help the underserved and to deliver parcels. But we need to do a better job.

Even though we have money under rural transit under Minister LeBlanc, I’m a firm advocate that we need to have money for planning. There is no point in you doing something in your area and someone else doing another transit project in another area if it doesn’t all link together. It has to be a hub-and-wheel-spoke system for transit if it is going to be effective and work in rural areas.

We also have to think outside of the box. Maybe it’s ride‑sharing, maybe it is working with communities that have a coach or bus service now and asking if we can supplement getting a bus to take seniors or those who are underserved to the grocery store that is an hour away once a week. I also think that, in rural Canada, we have to understand that public transit is different. If you grew up in Europe, you built your life around the bus or train schedule. As we get into the conversation of rural transit, we have to know that we have to build our lives around that transit, and that there is nothing wrong with using it.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: That is a phenomenal question. All your questions have been phenomenal.

Senator, I had a chat with the U.S. ambassador a few months ago. He has a passion for broadband and connectivity. That was his question to me. He said, “It’s great to have the connection in the community, but do people have the skill set and do Indigenous communities have the skill set to use it?”

I’m delighted to tell you that through my department and ISED — Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada — there is a Digital Skills for Youth Program, and it’s over $100 million. That was announced in the 2021 budget. There is also digital transformation money to help businesses and communities learn this new digital world that we’re in.

It’s a proven fact that when you do have that training, as we saw through COVID-19 when businesses went from in person to online, how in many cases that scaled up and their sales just exploded. But we need to make sure we’re training the skill set there.

I hear you, sir. That money is there. If you need help finding some more, you reach out and we will do our best to make sure our Indigenous communities get their share and more. Because you’re right: It is in the rural, remote and Indigenous communities that we need this work done more than ever.