Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator. Trust me, I get it. I used to say, when I first came to Ottawa, you could fit six Prince Edward Islands in my riding, and then I realized that people didn’t have a clue how big Prince Edward Island is. Now I say that my riding is bigger than Switzerland. I have over 200 communities, and 5 of those are accessible by boat only. Of course, our island of Newfoundland is only accessible by ferry service.

Since I have been minister, I have done over 70 round tables — with people from coast to coast to coast — focused on many things. One of them was on rural transit. We had a deep discussion of how things have changed since the pandemic. Yes, you are correct: Transit was an issue in rural Canada long before the pandemic, but I think that the pandemic has ripped off the Band-Aid because we’re now seeing more and more people wanting to move to rural areas.

I have regular discussions with my colleagues Minister Alghabra for Transport and Minister LeBlanc for Infrastructure and Communities. We work with the provinces and territories on how we can create a rural transit plan for the country. Mr. LeBlanc has a Rural Transit Solutions Fund that he announced last year, and the applications are being reviewed now.

But we have to make sure that it works for all rural Canadians — not just those closer to a large centre.

Hon. Mohamed-Iqbal Ravalia: A pleasure to see you, minister, and thank you for being here today.

My question today is regarding health in general and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, or FASD, which is a diagnostic term used to describe the broad spectrum of presentations and disabilities resulting from exposure to alcohol in utero.

There are little or no FASD multidisciplinary diagnostic teams in rural regions of Canada. Families often have difficulty accessing their services, and, because of the lack of clinics available and the distance rural residents have to travel, it is often a huge burden to them.

As outlined in Canada’s Rural Economic Development Strategy, since 2015 the federal government has made investments in rural communities, including efforts to improve connectivity through affordable high-speed internet and enhanced infrastructure to improve education and health facilities.

Would you please speak to what measures are being taken to improve access to health diagnostic clinics in general but, in particular, for support for individuals with FASD and other more complex health issues?

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, Senator Ravalia. Earlier I alluded to the round tables I have done. Trust me, I have done quite a few on rural health care. It is interesting how people say it is not just money that will fix the problem. We need to encourage people, be it doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, specialists or mental health specialists, to get into rural communities. Everyone says that we need a hub system because you cannot have one person go to a remote area — look, it will be burnout in no time. We have to work with the provinces and territories to get the hub system in these rural parts of the country.

The digital equation that we are delivering on high-speed broadband to the rural communities is going to help to a certain extent. But there is no better than face-to-face access to health care.

On your specific issue of fetal alcohol syndrome, we have a raging problem throughout Canada, and it is in rural Canada with alcohol and substance abuse.

I know my colleague was in the room here, Minister Bennett. I know that she is focused on what we can do with mental health and addictions, and I will work with her every step of the way and I’ll be watching what you do on this important file as well, senator.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Black, that is an amazing question and it follows on your colleague’s question as well.

It is interesting, too. One of the round tables that I have done was with the agricultural sector, and they brought that specific thing up. It has been challenging times. They have seen floods, and they have seen droughts. Interestingly, with the hurricane that hit in my riding, mental health supports were needed there at that time to get people through the shock of seeing 100-foot waves. The province did a great job of transporting people from major centres to the rural centres. But that was an awakening, too, that this needs to be addressed in rural Canada. Sadly, often it takes a disaster or catastrophe for us to work on these issues. I talk regularly with Minister Bennett on how we address this.

I had a great chat when I was in rural Manitoba earlier this year. I sat down with a group of kids whose specialty in their high school and their post-secondary school is how we address the rural issues of mental care.

It is on my radar, sir. I will continue to work with Minister Bennett and keep you posted as to our progress and support you in any way I can.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: That is a wonderful question. It is dear to my heart, senator, because it would be in the northern part of my riding and connected to mainland Canada.

This conversation has been going on for many years in our province of Newfoundland and Labrador. What is interesting is that technologies have changed over the years. My counterpart and friend Minister O’Regan was in Norway a few months ago and visited a subsea tunnel that was built at a quarter of the price that was estimated 20 years ago. So the prices are coming down.

On your question about the costs of this, as Newfoundland and Labrador MPs, we’ve had reach-out from people in the business sector, asking, “Would the Canada Infrastructure Bank please do a request for interest, because we are interested in doing this?”

I think that that is the best way to do it. It will not be money from the provincial government. It will be a loan, as you know, from the Canada Infrastructure Bank. But there is interest from the private sector to get this done. They see it as looking after our oceans with the whales issue. We are looking at how we get the transit, we’re doing transborder traffic and we’re doing traffic of goods and services from all over the world.

I think you are going to see this fixed link come, and it will be a public-private partnership and it will be through business driving this. At the end of the day, senator, if business is not supporting this, it cannot be a wish of the federal government. It has to be business supporting it, and they are telling us that this is what they need to see the movement of goods from Europe, especially now with the Northwest Passage opening up.

Hon. Judith G. Seidman: Minister, thank you for being with us today. I would like to pursue the mental health issue, if I might.

The University of Guelph recently released a study indicating that the mental health of Canadian farmers is worse than it was five years ago and worse than that of the general population in every way. Stress, anxiety, depression, emotional exhaustion and suicide ideation are all higher among farmers than the national average and highest among women farmers.

Your mandate letter from the Prime Minister states:

Support the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions to explore pathways to increase the accessibility of mental health services in rural areas.

Minister, might you tell us about your government’s plan to improve the mental health of our farmers and, specifically, any concrete actions taken since your appointment as minister?

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Plett, thank you for the question.

This is important to my riding as well. I have 87 volunteer fire departments in my riding. I have one paid fire department, so I hear from volunteer fire departments all the time.

I’ll get the exact number for you, but I can tell you that as Minister LeBlanc is developing his new infrastructure program to work with provinces and territories and municipalities, we were talking just about how we can make sure that these small projects that mean so much in small, rural communities — maybe it’s $200,000 or $300,000 or $400,000, which would be nothing to Ottawa, but we know how important it is in these small communities.

I have a commitment from Minister LeBlanc that we will look at how small communities can avail themselves of these funds if they want to use them for a fire hall, if they want to use them for connectivity or if they want to use them for a community centre. We know that small funds that get out into rural Canada will have a difference on rural lives.

I will get you the exact number on what has happened in fire halls. I supported my friend MP Kody Blois on that as well.

Hon. Lucie Moncion: Welcome to the Senate, minister.

In your mandate letter, the Prime Minister asks you to do the following:

 . . . continue to implement the Rural Economic Development Strategy to build on existing investments . . . and identify improvements that could be made to programs, policies and future investments to benefit rural communities.

We know that financial cooperatives are generally the last to be consulted when it comes to program and policy development. I am thinking in particular of the Canada Emergency Business Account, or CEBA, during COVID-19. The government eventually made members of these institutions eligible, but they had to work hard to make themselves heard.

Nevertheless, these financial institutions represent nearly one quarter, or 21%, of the Canadian SME market share. Their belated inclusion in critical discussions is hampering rural economic development.

In keeping with the spirit of the objectives set out in your mandate letter, can you tell us how your government intends to consult financial cooperatives systematically rather than belatedly?

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Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator. That is a great question. One thing that I did as soon as I was appointed minister with this portfolio — there is a Centre for Rural Economic Development already established. I sat down with the team and I asked, “Who do we have on the ground? Who do we have actually out working with businesses, banking institutes, not‑for‑profits, communities and Indigenous communities?” I am pleased to say that now we have 22 people in that department, and there are some on the ground in rural Canada from coast to coast to coast. We also work with regional developments associations, with BDC and, of course, with all of the other ministries in this field.

The reality is that banking is different in rural Canada. We have to work with the Canadian Bankers Association, or CBA, and all aspects to make sure that we develop and deliver to rural Canadians. I have tasked my team in the Centre for Rural Economic Development to make sure that they get out to every field because if we are not delivering the services that rural Canadians need to grow the economy, to help farmers, to help fishers and to help the tourism sector and the mining industry, we are not going to get there. They are a vital part of working with all of the groups on the ground to make a difference in rural and economic development from coast to coast to coast.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you so much for that question, my friend. You know just as well as I do that the financial sector is becoming increasingly digitalized, and we have to make sure that the standards are modernized to ensure that every part of Canada enjoys a strong, stable and innovative financial sector.

We also have to make sure and realize that for every Canadian, no matter where they live, the financial sector is globally competitive, promotes consumer choice and contributes to economic growth. That is why I was delighted when our government launched the Advisory Committee on Open Banking. I am sure that you know that the lead on that is Abraham Tachjian, who has done phenomenal work with stakeholders, consumer organizations and regulators. The four pillars of the committee’s report is on accreditation, liability, privacy and security.

The government is reviewing the committee’s recommendations and developing the next steps to move forward. I know that you will play an active role in that along the way, sir.

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Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator. That is an incredible question because it alludes to what I mentioned earlier about the terrible drug problem that we have in rural Canada. As you know, Canada Post is a Crown corporation, but I will be following that bill’s progress to the detail. I know that is exactly how some of the drugs are getting into these rural communities.

The other thing that I am delighted to see is that Canada Post is now looking at a different way to do business. They’ve started Canada Post hubs. They are piloting these new projects. There are four — one in Membertou, Nova Scotia, one in Alberta, one in Saskatchewan and one in Ontario — where they are looking at being more service-centred. There could be electric vehicle charging stations, money services, maybe rentable meeting rooms, having access to local businesses and community information and secure access to postal and parcel boxes. I think that as we see these hubs grow, you will see more people in these areas, and hopefully, we can get that under control.

As you know, it would be a policing issue. Again, I’m sure that we’re going to have a talk about policing in rural areas as well because that is totally different. But I will be watching the progress of that bill, and I’ll be watching you watch it with me, sir.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Black, thank you for that. This is a passion for me. As you know by now, my riding is bigger than Switzerland. There is one town that has two small buses about the size of the parliamentary buses, and I have three communities that have a taxi service. There is no Uber in Newfoundland and Labrador. There are a couple of what I would call “mom and pop” van services running from a small rural community to a bigger community to help seniors, to help the underserved and to deliver parcels. But we need to do a better job.

Even though we have money under rural transit under Minister LeBlanc, I’m a firm advocate that we need to have money for planning. There is no point in you doing something in your area and someone else doing another transit project in another area if it doesn’t all link together. It has to be a hub-and-wheel-spoke system for transit if it is going to be effective and work in rural areas.

We also have to think outside of the box. Maybe it’s ride‑sharing, maybe it is working with communities that have a coach or bus service now and asking if we can supplement getting a bus to take seniors or those who are underserved to the grocery store that is an hour away once a week. I also think that, in rural Canada, we have to understand that public transit is different. If you grew up in Europe, you built your life around the bus or train schedule. As we get into the conversation of rural transit, we have to know that we have to build our lives around that transit, and that there is nothing wrong with using it.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: That is a phenomenal question. All your questions have been phenomenal.

Senator, I had a chat with the U.S. ambassador a few months ago. He has a passion for broadband and connectivity. That was his question to me. He said, “It’s great to have the connection in the community, but do people have the skill set and do Indigenous communities have the skill set to use it?”

I’m delighted to tell you that through my department and ISED — Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada — there is a Digital Skills for Youth Program, and it’s over $100 million. That was announced in the 2021 budget. There is also digital transformation money to help businesses and communities learn this new digital world that we’re in.

It’s a proven fact that when you do have that training, as we saw through COVID-19 when businesses went from in person to online, how in many cases that scaled up and their sales just exploded. But we need to make sure we’re training the skill set there.

I hear you, sir. That money is there. If you need help finding some more, you reach out and we will do our best to make sure our Indigenous communities get their share and more. Because you’re right: It is in the rural, remote and Indigenous communities that we need this work done more than ever.

Hon. Pamela Wallin: Minister, in September, 11 people were murdered during a stabbing rampage at James Smith Cree Nation in Saskatchewan. We know of your government’s recent pledge of $40 million for the First Nation, but we also know that the issue is that there simply aren’t enough police officers to respond to crimes in progress or emergencies in a timely way in rural areas. When a citizen calls the RCMP, they are often told just to stay inside and lock their doors because they can’t get there.

Will your government commit, minister, to allocating serious new funding for training, recruitment and resources for the RCMP for officers for all rural areas of Saskatchewan and rural Canada? After all, safety and security are key economic determinants.

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Senator Wallin, that’s an incredible question. Sadly, we have to talk about it too much.

I talked to Minister Mendicino about this, and he and I have done a round table on rural policing, because it is different.

I have nine RCMP detachments in my riding. There is hours between them, and all of them are 30% underserved. It was before the pandemic. It wasn’t just all because of the pandemic.

I also reach out to the provinces and the territories and say that we have to have a discussion of how we do rural policing better. Do we have to focus on using the RCMP for the cybersecurity and the big drug busts? In my home province of Newfoundland and Labrador, we have the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary. Do we help put them out on the ground in further areas?

It’s a conversation we all have to have. It’s not one-size-fits-all. It’s what we can do to work together with the provinces and territories to make sure that the applicable resources are there.

This is a serious issue. I have heard terrible stories, as I’m sure you have, of people committing petty crime, probably for drug money, where they target the space in between where they know it’s a three-hour recovery for whatever policing unit to get there. They target that maximum time so they know they can get in and out. That’s not a way that we need to live in Canada.

So I’m there with you. If you have some ideas, please let me know. It’s only by creative ideas that we will be able to address this from coast to coast to coast.

[Translation]

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, my question is on behalf of Senator Wells, who, of course, is from Newfoundland and Labrador:

Last week, the federal government announced they were imposing a carbon tax on Newfoundland and Labrador, which is set to take effect July 1, 2023. Alongside your colleague MP Seamus O’Regan, who is also from your province, you said you were excited about this new tax. However, this ignores the pressures people are facing in the province with the rising cost of living. In fact, the carbon tax will drive up the price of home heating fuel by 17.38 cents per litre. The significant increase in heating costs over the past year already imposed considerable economic hardship and stress on these residents. A 20% increase to the carbon tax threatens to drive residents in the province into energy poverty.

There has been disappointment expressed that the carbon tax will apply to home heating. This was exempted in the made-in-Newfoundland-and-Labrador approach implemented in 2019.

Minister, will the government consider amending this tax —

Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator, for that question. When I answered the same question from your colleague from Newfoundland and Labrador, I didn’t have time to mention another thing that we have done for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, which was rate mitigation.

We all know what the Muskrat Falls project was doing to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. When that comes online, people’s electricity rates were going to double. The federal government stepped in to guarantee the rates would not be doubling.

Also, on the price on pollution, we’ll agree to disagree on that one. I know that the average family of four in Newfoundland and Labrador is going to pay in about $700, and they will get back over $1,300.

We have also done a variety of things to help people with the cost of living. As I said, we have increased Canada Child Benefit payments. There has been an increase in the Guaranteed Income Supplement. We have a program out for people to transition off of oil and go to heat pumps. We have come with a rent subsidy for people.

But again, on the rate mitigation piece, we have delivered a lot for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and the rate mitigation piece is helping as well with their heating.

Hon. Diane Bellemare: Welcome, minister.

Your mandate is to work with the provinces and territories to generate rural economic development projects.

Would you please tell us about some successful examples of collaboration with the provinces and territories in areas other than internet access and transportation?

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Hon. Gudie Hutchings, P.C., M.P., Minister of Rural Economic Development: Thank you, senator, for that question. I certainly hope they do consider a rural place to call home.

Minister Hussen has at his purview billions of dollars. We take the housing issue very seriously. There is a pocket of money now under the Housing Accelerator Fund. That’s to help with the capacity piece. A lot of that will be going to rural, small and remote communities to help them quarterback their way through the application process.

There has been housing earmarked specifically for rural development under the Rapid Housing Initiative stream, where 25% of that housing money that went to rural areas. Look, we know we have to make it easier for communities and not‑for‑profits and businesses — anybody — to avail themselves of the housing project.

What we haven’t done well as a federal government is making the application process fit the price. If you want to build a 10‑unit building in northern Ontario or northern Quebec, why is it the same application process for a 1,000-unit building here in downtown Ottawa?

I’m working with Minister Hussen, and there is a rural set‑aside under all his policies that are coming out now. We have worked hard to get that. We’re also suggesting to him that he use the pathfinder program. The pathfinder program was what we put in place with the Universal Broadband Fund to help people and communities get access to answers to questions like, “How do I find this information?” “How do I apply?” “With whom do I work and where do I go?” We are encouraging the minister to put this pathfinder program in the housing fund to specifically help rural and remote communities navigate through the sometimes onerous processes to access these funds.

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