Hon. Josée Verner: Thank you, minister. In April 2022, the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Jerry DeMarco, concluded in a report that the Hydrogen Strategy for Canada overestimated hydrogen’s potential to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions because “unrealistic assumptions” were used. That’s a direct quote. In testimony before the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources in October, Mr. DeMarco explained that this was due in part to the fact that your department had favoured, and I quote, “a transformative scenario that assumed the adoption of aggressive and sometimes non-existent policies.” How would you respond to Commissioner DeMarco’s disturbing findings?

Hon. Paul J. Massicotte: Welcome, minister. Canada’s boreal forests represent a quarter of the world’s forests. For many years, we’ve been a leader in sustainable forest management. These forests store a significant amount of carbon in the soils, and that carbon is released into the atmosphere during logging. It is estimated that 122 megatonnes of CO₂ are released every year through logging. Are these emissions accounted for by the government? If so, how does your government envisage reducing these emissions to meet our net-zero targets?

Hon. Jonathan Wilkinson, P.C., M.P., Minister of Natural Resources: I wouldn’t agree with your assertion. It’s extremely important that these projects go ahead. That’s particularly true in the oil sands, where CCUS — carbon capture, utilization and storage — is one of the major opportunities for reducing emissions.

We must be sensitive to two things: the overall economics of the projects and what our friends in the United States are doing under the Inflation Reduction Act.

We brought forward what we thought was an appropriate incentive to bring forward the capital that’s required to build these kinds of projects. We expect the private sector also to be putting its capital at play; it is part of the solution here, too. There are other ways in which we can create value — for example, contracts for differences, which is something we are embedding in the new Canada growth fund which is of value and must be calculated into the overall economics.

We are waiting for the Government of Alberta to come forward with what it is going to do under its royalty regime as part of this. They have been working on that for some significant time, but that’s part of this on a go-forward basis. We have done lots of analysis with respect to how we compare vis-à-vis the United States, and Canada is actually quite reasonable in terms of where it sits.

We certainly want these to go ahead. I talk to the Pathways Alliance CEOs all the time; I talk to the Province of Alberta all the time. My view is that these are going to proceed. The Government of Canada is committed to doing what we need to do, but we obviously expect the sector to do their part as well.

Hon. Yonah Martin (Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Minister, oil and gas industry proponents have been asking for a 75% investment tax credit from the federal government in order to spur investment in carbon capture and storage technologies, which would reduce upfront capital costs involved in constructing this critical technology. However, your government’s announcement fell short, promising only a 50% tax credit. Many in the industry have stated that the size of the credit means that many of these planned projects will not go forward.

Minister, given the impact this technology could have on emissions reduction, does it concern you that many of these projects may now not go ahead?

Hon. Jonathan Wilkinson, P.C., M.P., Minister of Natural Resources: Thank you for the question, senator. It’s an important question, but not a very simple one. With green hydrogen, as some people call it, though I don’t necessarily like to describe it using colours because I think we should talk about the intensity of the carbon emissions during electrolysis instead, choices often need to be made during the process. In other words, we have to decide how we want to use the electricity, and that depends on the circumstances.

The Atlantic provinces want to use wind power to produce hydrogen, but Quebec has a different perspective. Quebec wants to use some hydrogen for domestic use, but it has very little interest in exporting it. As I said earlier, there are other solutions. In Alberta, for example, natural gas can be used to produce hydrogen that doesn’t create much CO₂.

Not all provinces and territories have the same perspective. Of course, we have to make some choices. Electricity costs more than natural gas, which is becoming a more economical choice for now. However, if the cost of electrolysis comes down in the future, this will change.

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