(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Senator Plett: Well, minister your government reaffirms its commitment to reconciliation, and I think we can both agree that ensuring clean tap water for every First Nation is a very crucial part of achieving just that. Yet your government’s verbal affirmations contradict its failure to meet the 2021 deadline. I appreciate what you are saying about your commitments, but these commitments don’t seem to take effect. Has your government now put a firm deadline on its commitment to end these drinking water advisories? If so, when is it? I’m sure that most chiefs and councils would be happy to assist you in getting this done.

I can also tell you that the government is confident that we have enough money to be able to complete this work, and that the money is there and accessible as we continue this work.

I believe — in fact, I am profoundly certain — that no community wants to be, as the honourable senator has said, under a boil water advisory. However, I will also reflect on the comments of leaders who have said that they do not want to prematurely lift boil water advisories — in fact, the chief in Neskantaga told me this just a couple of days ago — if they don’t have confidence that the system will continue to deliver water. It is because of the lack of confidence that their community members have.

This is an exercise in true self-determination, working with communities at the speed that they determine, which is why it makes it difficult to set another deadline.

Hon. Marie-Françoise Mégie: Welcome to the Senate, minister.

As I’m sure you know, diabetes has a significant and disproportionate impact on Indigenous and Inuit communities. Currently, access to continuous glucose monitoring systems is limited under the Non-Insured Health Benefits program for First Nations and Inuit in Canada.

Given the current drug benefit list, when will you be able to change your policy to make sure Indigenous children get the care and services they need to effectively treat and prevent diabetes?

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you, senator. That is a very important question.

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It is actually related to the previous question, which is about flipping from treatment — often very expensive treatment — to prevention. I see those glucose monitors you’re speaking of as an important prevention tool to help people control their diabetes and get better outcomes that reduce the need for more extreme interventions.

I had an Indigenous pharmacist actually teach me about this type of glucose monitor. So I’m working now with the department to understand how we can add that type of glucose monitor to the formulary so that more Indigenous people can have access to that particular tool. That will, indeed, eventually alleviate costs on the treatment of severe diabetes and diabetes‑related complications.

Hon. Paula Simons: Minister, Call to Action 11 from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report calls for adequate federal funding support for Indigenous students seeking a post-secondary education, but according to the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, only 19% of about 25,000 eligible Indigenous learners received funding from the Post-Secondary Student Support Program each year.

Can you tell us what your government is planning to do to increase funding for Indigenous students? Can you also tell us whether you would be open to expanding the terms of the ISET Program — the Indigenous Skills and Employment Training Program — so it is less strictly tied to labour market outcomes?

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you very much.

I was proud to be the minister of the former Department of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour when the ISET Program received a historic increase — 58% more funding and a 10-year commitment — that allows adult education and ISET’s programs, which is Indigenous secondary education training programs, to have a longer runway to help people achieve their education and training goals.

I’m interested to hear more about the flexibilities the honourable member is talking about, and she can certainly share them with the current minister under whose portfolio that falls.

In terms of the shortfall for post-secondary education supports, our government has taken historic measures to make post‑secondary education more affordable. Often, First Nations and Indigenous students still have barriers to attending because of lives, quite frankly, that include poverty. That makes going to school and staying in school very challenging.

So I share her ambition around increasing access to post‑secondary education for First Nations students. I think every student who has the capacity, an acceptance letter and an ability to attend post-secondary should have a smooth passage to those studies and that training. Not only is that good for the individual, but it is good for communities. It certainly is good for Canada. We need every ounce of talent as we face these enormous challenges together.

So I will be focused on working with my colleagues, the Minister of Finance and others, to ensure that the department has better capacity.

Hon. Brian Francis: Hello, Minister Hajdu.

Last week in The Globe and Mail, Tanya Talaga reported that last September, an Ontario regional pharmacist for the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, which is a part of Indigenous Services Canada, sent a memo asking nursing staff to save expired children’s pain and fever medication due to ongoing shortages.

Not only is there no evidence of a similar directive being made in other jurisdictions, but Health Canada has advised against doing so since safety and effectiveness are not guaranteed. This is yet another unacceptable example of First Nations children being provided with a different standard of care than their peers.

Could you confirm whether the directive to stockpile expired medication for First Nations children remains in effect in Ontario or elsewhere? Could you also tell us what percentage of the foreign supply of medication recently secured by Canada will be allocated to Indigenous children, including those in rural and northern communities, where the need is greater?

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: Thank you, and welcome, minister.

I believe you are aware that in the community of Pangnirtung in Nunavut, there are active cases of tuberculosis, or TB; there are 35 active and 126 latent cases that could become active. A lack of screening facilities means the accurate number could be much higher.

We know that a study published by the Canadian Medical Association found that Nunavut Inuit transferred to Ottawa from my home region have a 25% higher chance of dying after surgery due to what the authors note as systemic barriers in accessing timely and culturally appropriate care.

However, federal monies granted through ICPC — the Inuit‑Crown Partnership Committee — meant to aid in the screening and treatment of TB are not being spent due to a dispute between NTI — Nunavut Tunngavik Inc. — and the Government of Nunavut.

Are you willing to take direct action, minister — this is your money — to ensure the money that was allocated to eliminate TB in Inuit Nunangat is spent?

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you very much. It’s an excellent question.

I have been taking direct action. In fact, all summer and into this fall, I’ve been speaking with both parties. I’m pleased to say that they have signed their letter of agreement on how to move forward. That is a very positive step.

But I will also say that you’re right: The Government of Canada has invested millions of dollars to combat and treat tuberculosis. Obviously, on the medical side, we do need provincial and territorial partners to do that work, in large part because they are the health care delivery providers.

But in addition to that, in Budget 2022, the historic investment of $845 million for Inuit housing allows us to build on some of the progress we have made. There still is a gap. It’s important when we are talking about tuberculosis that we don’t forget about the social determinants of health like housing and access to things like education and information that is culturally appropriate and in languages that people can understand.

We’ll continue to work with our partners to deliver these funds and the supports that are needed so that this extremely urgent work can get done.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you very much. I’m pleased to hear this question because, in fact, it was one of the first pieces of work I did as a minister for this government, launching the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. I will note that there are senators in this room who were very active in that work as well.

Of course, it is difficult work. It is a multi-sectoral work. We need partners at the municipal level, the provincial level and the federal level.

The federal government, I often say, is very good at giving money. We don’t necessarily know exactly what to do. Communities do, municipalities do, provinces do, and I see our role as an enabling partner.

We certainly do now have a national action plan that, as I said, partners have fed into. That is a plan for how we get to this place together. There are billions of dollars committed and invested. The national action plan is also what is considered an evergreen document, so it will be updated as we learn more, as we see what works and what doesn’t work.

I will say, it is also something that the work that we’re doing on housing, on homelessness, on supports for Indigenous people in urban settings is critically attached to. Just a few weeks ago, I was in Manitoba, announcing funding for a women’s shelter to be able to have core permanent funding and additional space, dignified space, for Indigenous women who find themselves engaged in the streets, in violent situations, in risky situations. I spoke to some of the women in the shelter.

The federal government is increasingly becoming a very strong partner with municipalities, organizations, Indigenous-led organizations, friendship centres. It’s an all-hands-on-deck piece of work, and I’m honoured to be able to do that with partners.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, as a senator from Manitoba, let me thank you for what you have done in helping that women’s shelter. As you know, you and I were on a flight coming back from Winnipeg the day that you came back from there, so thank you.

Minister, in the spring of this year, the Parliamentary Budget Officer published a report which analyzed the government’s expenditures and results for Indigenous peoples through the creation of a second department. The report found the government was failing Indigenous peoples in a multitude of ways, noting a significant increase in expenditures, which is estimated to be several billions of dollars, and a “significant decline” in the results for Indigenous communities. The report concluded, “All organizations examined performed poorly in their ability to consistently maintain a target and date to achieve it . . . .”

Minister, how do you justify another report that your government is spending more and achieving less? In the six months since the report was tabled, what concrete steps have you taken to reroute the bulk of these expenditures from the Ottawa bureaucracy to Indigenous peoples directly?

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you very much, Senator Plett. I will tell you that closing a gap, especially when that gap has been ignored for decades, if not generations, is extremely expensive. Turning a gap around, sometimes those early investments don’t demonstrate the kinds of success that we want to see immediately. It’s like closing any gap.

It’s not closed, by the way. The government has a goal of closing the infrastructure gap, for example, by 2030. But the gap is so large that even with historic investments in infrastructure, over $18 billion to date, we still see the need of communities far outstrips the investments made to date.

The structural change between the two departments, I believe, was important. It was very difficult to have a department that was responsible for the relationship, if you will — land claims, settling of long-standing treaty disputes — along with a department that simultaneously was responsible for administering services.

We are stabilizing as the two departments have become clearer in their roles, and I think having a department that is solely focused, like mine, on Indigenous service delivery allows for us to get better and better at doing that work through the principles of self-determination.

It’s a huge shift for the government in the way that we think about this work, but it’s an important one. I think it will have a legacy for many generations.

Hon. Tony Loffreda: Thank you, minister, for being here, and welcome to the Senate.

As a member of our National Finance Committee, I have noted that your departmental results report for the last year has not been provided, and the previous one was less than thorough. These reports should contain critical information for the Senate’s National Finance Committee.

Will the minister provide a date when we can expect a report and ensure that it is thorough and complete, with verifiable performance indicators, beyond stating that the funding has been dispersed?

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you very much. I think the honourable senator is speaking in my language — measurement of outcomes is extremely important to me. However, we are also talking about measurement in a space where self-determination is very important and data has been used and misused. So there is a huge distrust, in some cases, by Indigenous peoples of the collection of data and of the way that the government will use the data. So this is delicate work. It is important work, and everyone agrees that we need to be able to show outcomes.

In terms of the date of the departmental results report, I’m thrilled that someone reads that because it’s important. In fact, I would agree with the senator that the first year when I was the minister, that report was rather thin. I hope that you’ll find that the report has improved this year. I recently signed off on it, so I would assume you’ll have it in short order.

Hon. Bernadette Clement: Welcome, minister. On behalf of Senator Pat Duncan, I want to ask the following question:

You have an understanding of health care, and with your current responsibilities of Indigenous Services, your mandate letter includes a whole-of-government approach.

Status First Nations can be identified through provincial-territorial health care numbers. Why is assisting the renewal of status cards through Indigenous Services at such a bottleneck and causing such difficulty for First Nations? Why have we not seen quantifiable improvements after the millions you have spent to improve the system?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, in June, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs warned that Indigenous Services Canada is on track to miss its 2030 target to close the infrastructure gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities. As I have outlined previously, it is clear that your government’s approach to simply throwing more money at a problem in the hopes that it will magically solve itself is not manifesting in results for Indigenous communities. While funding is necessary, in the absence of an actionable plan and no strategic implementation of these funds, nothing gets done.

Minister, will your department commit to reviewing its approach and to producing an actionable plan to close this gap?

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you. First of all, I’ll reflect back to my opening comment, which is that closing a gap that has been ignored for decades, if not multiple decades, is a huge, astronomical task. In fact, I asked the department when I first arrived a year ago to make sure that they began that work of assessing the gap and what it would take to address it.

I would say, with all respect to the honourable senator, it will take more money. It will take a lot of money to close that gap because, in fact, we have gaps in housing, in community centres, in schooling and in all kinds of infrastructure, including civil infrastructure. Communities are running out of lots to build houses on because, in fact, they are running out of land in some cases, or the land they have is unserviced, so it requires heavy civil engineering. I have learned more about infrastructure in the last year than I ever thought would be possible.

The government is committed to closing that gap. It will require strategic investments of financial resources, and it will require increased capacity, in some cases, in some communities to be able to plan. It will also require rigorous oversight to make sure that the contracted services that we, as a government, fund and that First Nations contract, deliver in a timely and sustainable way. We’ll continue to do that hard work together.

Hon. Patty Hajdu, P.C., M.P., Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario: Thank you very much.

I agree. This is a complaint that I hear about. I would say it’s the bread and butter, in some ways, of front-line work for members of Parliament, because when someone cannot get the renewal of their status card, of course, it creates all sorts of challenges for them.

Our government, as you note, has invested more money to increase the efficiency of status card renewal. I have asked and directed the department to look at automated ways to do this. I think part of the challenge is that it is a very laborious process that requires increasing numbers of individuals. Of course, as we work to amend some of the systemic discrimination in the Indian Act — I know that a number of senators have worked extensively on this — that means even more people seeking status cards.

This is a direction I have given the department — to look at ways we can use some automated process. I’m no tech expert, but certainly some way to facilitate a faster process that allows for people to get the critical information they need.

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Hon. Michèle Audette: Kwe, minister. We’ll start from the same principle of self-determination. Your government made a series of amendments — Bill C-3 in 2010 and Bill S-3 in 2007 — to announce its intention to address the issue of emancipated persons in order to eliminate gender-based discrimination in the entitlement to Indian registration. Where we part ways is that in my books, this is more about softening or reducing discrimination and maybe not eliminating it altogether. I would like your thoughts on that. What are you going to do for the thousands of people, men and women, who can be registered in Ottawa, but because of membership codes in section 10 of the Indian Act, will be excluded from their community? To me, that is not what it means to eliminate discrimination.

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