Senator Saint-Germain: Once again, I’m not saying I’m opposed to the objective, but, given senators’ right to express their opinion on such an important issue and given our responsibility to ensure that the motion is constitutional, I move adjournment of the debate in my name.

Senator Miville-Dechêne: Senator Verner and I have had that discussion. As you know, this was Senator Verner’s initiative, but of course I immediately agreed to second it. This is a difficult debate. It’s a debate that we don’t want to prolong, given the nature of the facts that have tarnished all of our reputations. The idea was to keep debate short and avoid adjourning debate so that there is no break. This has been dragging on and hurting us for a long time. The idea of having a short debate where we all agree is obviously an idea that I support.

However, I understand what you’re saying. I have a feeling, given that this story has been affecting us for a long time, that the senators have made up their minds. After all, is it so hard to agree that Senator Meredith does not deserve the title “Honourable?” It makes complete sense. The two reports that I have reread are devastating, and they were produced by our Senate Ethics Officer as a result of our internal mechanisms, so I feel that the issue is relatively simple.

I consulted people before drafting this text to make sure it avoided any potential legal pitfalls. Are there constitutional issues? I’m sure Senator Verner had this motion drafted by a trained law clerk. I am no legal expert, but on the face of it I see no constitutional problem. That’s my point of view.

Hon. Ratna Omidvar: I don’t wish to take any more points. I believe the point of my question was made, and it was more about the mechanics of Senator Plett’s proposal and exactly how it would work, given our true and tried principle of proportionality on the one hand, the fact that the Government Representative Office, or GRO, does not have an assigned number of seats on committees, nor do they have numbers of statements.

I’m wondering if you could explain your vision for all the non-affiliated senators being embraced by GRO as members of their caucus. I’m not quite sure how I would see that working.

The Hon. the Speaker: The sitting is suspended until 8 p.m.

(The sitting of the Senate was suspended.)

(The sitting of the Senate was resumed.)

(2000)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator McPhedran, calling the attention of the Senate to parliamentary privilege, the Ethics and Conflict of Interest Code for Senators and options for increasing accountability, transparency and fairness in the context of the Senate’s unique self-governance, including guidelines on public disclosure.

Senator Bovey: I’m not sure I like the word “end goal.” Surely, we should be looking at the word “future goal.” I wasn’t in the “good old Senate” — I know that. I never had any aspirations of being in the new Senate. Surprises happen in one’s life.

However, it must have been the case — and I hope you agree with me on this, Senator Plett — that not all the workings of the old Senate were necessarily “good old.” What I’m trying to get us to — and I hope you can agree with me and I asked you about this — is to agree to look for the future goal as opposed to the end goal. And as we do so, can we think about the needs of the ever-changing society and communities that we represent?

I would be interested if you do that, too, in our changing Manitoba. Remember, Manitoba was the “keystone” province, Senator Plett, so I come from the basis of that. Can we look at how the history of even our province changed the scope of Canadian Confederation and has changed the dynamics of this country that we call Canada?

Shouldn’t we be looking at how we can make this place a better place? As a chamber of sober second thought, don’t you agree with me that we have a responsibility to look at what that sober second thought is in terms of future goals?

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.

Senator Plett: Certainly.

Senator Lovelace Nicholas: As you know, she’s already a minority, and we represent minorities here. Now she’s trying to protect and prevent herself from being a minority on top of a minority.

I’m sorry; I agree with you and I agree with Senator McCallum. We should not do this. She is a minority on a minority, and she is a woman — a Native woman.

Senator Plett: That was an awfully long preamble, Senator Woo, and I am not consulting economists on this. I am making a speech that is contrary to what the government is doing, and I don’t need to defend that. They need to defend their bill. I don’t need to defend their bill.

You say it’s very difficult to reduce the GST, and then with that you said, “But your government did it.” So it’s not impossible. It might be difficult, but it’s not impossible.

Hon. Leo Housakos: While some of my colleagues — independent senators in this place — are preoccupied with why critics on government bills criticize and oppose government bills, I will continue to hold the government to account.

[Translation]

My question is for the government leader. Yesterday, an hour before a House of Commons committee meeting, someone let the cat out of the bag. Since 2017, the Liberal government has granted $21.8 million worth of contracts for facilities near Roxham Road to Pierre Guay, a Liberal Party of Canada donor. History is repeating itself. Liberals always benefit from the largesse of the Liberal government.

Sadly, Senator Gold, this comes as no surprise. The difference this time around is that, until yesterday, the Trudeau government refused to disclose the amount, claiming it was confidential information. In 2021, La Presse tried to get this information by submitting an access to information request to Public Services and Procurement Canada, but the request was denied.

Senator Gold, why did your government try to hide how much money it had paid to Mr. Guay? Are you ashamed? Is there any other information you’re hiding? Are other loyal Liberals taking advantage of this situation?

Senator Plett: Senator Lovelace Nicholas, I entirely agree with you, which is why I supported Senator McCallum in what she said. I believe that this chamber has been set up for minorities. We’re finding ourselves over here awfully close to being part of a minority as well. Of course, in the good old days we were not a minority. We’re still a few more in numbers than your caucus; nevertheless, we also find ourselves getting closer to a minority. But I support what you are saying.

(Debate adjourned, in the name of Senator Pate.)

[Translation]

Senator Plett: Whether it is end goals or future goals, some of us — and the one thing about the Senate is that we are allowed to talk about other people’s ages because anybody can look that up, and you and I are going to be retiring from here not that far apart — but for some of us, this has become looking toward the end as opposed to the future.

We have drifted a little bit away from what Senator McCallum was talking about, so I will simply leave it at that.

Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: Would Senator Miville-Dechêne take a question?

Some Hon. Senators: Yes.

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Motion agreed to and bill read third time and passed.)

[Translation]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dawson, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bovey, for the second reading of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of the family members of our new senator: her spouse, John Osler; her daughter, Juliana Osler; her son, Colin Osler; and her mother, Flordeliza Sharma. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Osler.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform the Senate that the Clerk of the Senate has received a certificate from the Registrar General of Canada showing that Flordeliz Osler has been summoned to the Senate.

Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: Honourable Senator Flordeliz Gigi Osler, all of my colleagues in the Independent Senators Group join me in wishing you the warmest of welcomes. We also welcome your family members. This will always be a very special day in your history. Our best regards to your family.

[English]

Senator, I would like to point out that you have demonstrated on several occasions how active and dynamic a woman you are, finding time not only to serve your patients but also to serve your professional association, in addition to sharing your knowledge and transferring your expertise to several universities in Canada and abroad. For the last several years, Dr. Osler, you have been volunteering in Africa to help train other surgeons in collaboration with the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Institute, Harvard University; University of British Columbia; University of Manitoba; and the Canadian Society of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery.

This would be impressive enough, but I’m not done with your very impressive résumé. As a dedicated advocate for equity, diversity and inclusion, your appointment is a continuation of a career in which your professionalism, integrity and competence have long served the public.

Senator Osler, when you were only and mostly known as Dr. Osler, you once said:

In my own work, I’ve come to realize how important it is to say to a patient who is about to have surgery, “We’re all here for you,” and give them confidence that they’re in good hands.

As this new chapter in your illustrious career begins, I couldn’t help but think about this sentence and how, despite your great expertise as a surgeon, you realize just how important it is to reassure your patients about what they are soon to undergo. On a larger scale, whether it is the Manitoban community, the Filipino one or all citizens of our country you will be representing in your new functions, I have no doubt that you will exercise your role with the utmost empathy, and our fellow Canadians will surely be confident that they are indeed “in good hands.”

Senator Osler, you will bring a unique perspective to our discussions, and I trust that you will keep in mind our duty to ensure the best interests of all Canadians with the care, the dedication, as well as the patience that have marked your career so far.

You have expressed your love of being in the operating room. This I don’t share with you, though. Although this might not look like one, the issues we deal with in this chamber can be delicate in nature and require rigour as well as precision. I have no doubt that you will succeed with flying colours.

Today, you are officially opening in the Senate a new chapter of your life. As this chapter is beginning, I wish to express how eager all members of the Independent Senators Group are to work with you. With your rich background, your proven dynamism and your modern and innovative approach — we saw it on TikTok indeed — we can only look forward to a tremendous contribution to the future of the Senate, especially with the great advantage of the time you have before you.

Senator Osler, welcome to the upper chamber.

Hon. Diane Bellemare: Colleagues, I will try to be brief, but I do want to speak at third reading of Bill C-30. Before I begin, I would like to congratulate all my colleagues who spoke before me on this budget bill. The speeches have all been very interesting and have raised important questions. I share many of the concerns that have been raised, especially regarding the fact that this bill has not been thoroughly studied in committee.

As I told Minister Freeland in Committee of the Whole, I will be voting in favour of this bill. I would nevertheless like to share some concerns that could be studied more thoroughly going forward. My comments will focus on taking a critical yet constructive look at the government’s strategy for dealing with this period of inflation.

Many colleagues who rose to speak yesterday at second reading reminded us of what experts are saying about what caused the inflation that we have been experiencing for over a year now. All of the major international research institutions, such as the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD, the central banks, like the Bank of Canada, and the macroeconomics experts that the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy has been hearing from over the past few weeks on the state of the economy agree that this inflation is being caused by supply chain issues.

In other words, the current inflation is a supply problem, not a demand problem. Were it not for the supply chain disruptions that have been going on since 2020, inflation would not be exceeding the central bank’s targets.

The disruptions in the supply of goods and services are the result of a combination of factors, such as the temporary halt to production due to the pandemic, the war in Ukraine, and specific climate considerations that contributed to reducing the production of certain foods. We all hope that these factors are temporary. That is why the central banks are saying that the inflation will be temporary.

In its latest report, from September 2022, the OECD is still saying that the causes of this inflation are temporary. According to the OECD’s economic outlook, inflation is hitting the global economy and has spread beyond the food and energy sectors, but it will ease. However, some supply problems, for gas in particular, may persist as a result of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

For the time being, as confirmed by central banks, inflationary expectations did not get out of hand. Furthermore, the witnesses we have heard from so far at the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy confirm that there is no wage inflation in Canada.

However, despite the fact that current inflation may be temporary, the prices that have gone up could remain at those higher levels. In other words, even if price increases stabilize, prices will still be higher than they were in the past. It will take a lot of market competition for prices to come down. Moreover, with wages rising in many sectors in a bid to shore up purchasing power, a drop in prices is becoming less likely. In short, when inflation stabilizes, price levels will be higher. I want to emphasize that, and it will soon become clear why.

There are definite losers when it comes to inflation, namely the most vulnerable citizens, who tend to live on fixed incomes. Bill C-30 is aimed at individuals and families whose incomes are not increasing by much and who are struggling to make ends meet. That said, inflation also creates winners. Among these winners are governments, particularly the federal government, whose revenue is going up because of inflation. Goods and services tax revenue has gone up significantly and, most likely, permanently.

Now I’d like to talk about strategies recommended by the OECD and experts to get through this temporary period of inflation. The main recommendation is to reduce overall demand to alleviate price pressure caused by supply shortages. That’s why authorities such as the OECD and the International Monetary Fund recommend higher interest rates to cool demand and ease price pressure. That is what the Bank of Canada and most central banks are doing.

These organizations also recommend temporary income transfer measures to boost the purchasing power of low-income individuals. That is exactly what the federal government, the Bank of Canada and many other governments are doing. Bill C-30 is therefore consistent with the OECD’s recommendations.

Is this strategy really effective? Are there any alternatives?

Some people are beginning to question the effectiveness of this strategy. Various tools exist to temporarily reduce demand, and monetary policy is not the only tool. In a context of inflation caused by ongoing supply chain problems, using monetary policy can be very costly. It would be like using aggressive chemotherapy to treat a localized cancer at an early stage, which could kill the patient.

Some economists consider this strategy to be dangerous. Witnesses who appeared before the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce shared their concerns with us. David Dodge, the former governor of the Bank of Canada, sent a clear message that increasing supply should be the focus for the medium term and acknowledged that short-term fiscal measures could also help reduce demand.

Professor Trevor Tombe from the University of Alberta, whom Senator Woo quoted, also questioned the unintended consequences of using interest rates to curb inflation caused by supply shortages. According to his study and others like it that he cited, raising interest rates can have a boomerang effect on inflation. Economist Jim Stafford also shared his concerns about using monetary policy to curb inflation.

In fact, a rapid, substantial interest rate hike may reduce demand, but it could also exacerbate increases in the cost of rent and other prices and services. It could even hinder our production system’s ability to fix supply shortages and to support the investments that are needed with respect to climate change. According to David Dodge, the only advantage of using monetary policy to reduce demand is that it is quick. It also relieves elected members of that responsibility.

As for the interim household income support measures also recommended by the OECD, they are by definition temporary. We might even question whether they are truly helpful for the most vulnerable citizens, given that we know that many people do not file tax returns and are therefore ineligible. These measures are politically beneficial, however, and the cost is temporary.

I consulted the latest financial reports from the Department of Finance, including The Fiscal Monitor for March 2022. For 2021-22, GST revenues were $45.5 billion, an increase of 48.9% over the previous year. Obviously, inflation is not the only reason for this increased revenue. It is also due to a return to normal consumption patterns post-COVID.

If we compare 2021-22 to the pre-pandemic years, we nonetheless see a significant increase in GST revenues. The fiscal reference tables that are published every year show that, for fiscal year 2019-20, the year before COVID-19, GST revenues reached $37.4 billion, and roughly the same amount was recorded in each of the preceding five years.

When we compare pre-COVID years to the fiscal year that ended in March 2022, there was an increase of $8.1 billion, or 21.7%, in the federal government’s revenues. This increase will be permanent. When inflation stabilizes, GST revenues will increase more slowly, but will remain high because prices will not go down.

In this context, Bill C-30, which, according to the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, proposes temporary assistance that will cost $2.6 billion, represents a rather restrained measure in contrast to the GST revenues taken in by the government. The government could have done more by making the supplement permanent, given that the incomes of vulnerable groups are not going up while prices are not coming down. The government could have temporarily reduced the GST by an amount equivalent to the increase in revenues. A reduction in the GST would have had an impact on inflation because it would have reduced the cost of the market basket.

France, along with other European countries, chose to lower electricity and gas rates and prices. According to a study conducted by France’s national institute of statistics, this measure reduced the rate of inflation by three percentage points, from 8% to 5.1%. It is an important measure.

All in all, the federal government has followed the recommendations of the OECD, which suggested adopting temporary income support measures rather than reducing taxes, but is that enough for poorer Canadian families that are struggling to make ends meet? I am not sure.

These same low-income groups are the ones that will bear much of the economic costs of the monetary policy. It must be said. The monetary policy lowers interest rates but creates other costs.

As you know, Canada’s monetary policy will slow the economy even though it has already begun to slow. That is already happening in the United States, where there have technically already been two consecutive quarters of falling output. It is generally the most vulnerable groups that pay the price of an economic slowdown. As you know, an economic slowdown is accompanied by job losses. More people draw on employment insurance benefits and, once again, it is lower‑income workers and small businesses that, proportionally speaking, pay a lot more than other groups for EI. Is that fair? The answer is obvious.

Finally, like other senators and like Senator Dupuis, I would have liked to see the studies the government did that prompted it to choose this strategy. I would have liked to understand the regional impacts and GBA+ impacts of this strategy. In essence, my goal is to question the information we get from organizations about fighting inflation and to promote more creative solutions going forward.

The government could have done better, but I’ll vote in favour of Bill C-30 because families need it. Nevertheless, I think budget measures like Bill C-30 are just short-lived band-aid solutions to a problem that calls for strategic supply-side measures to address supply issues responsibly and permanently. I urge the government to show us its supply-side strategy.

Thank you for listening. Meegwetch.

[English]