Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. The Bank of Canada has an independent monetary policy that best suits the country’s economic situation. The bank’s mandate is to monitor and ensure the stability of the rate of inflation in the interest of all Canadians.

The bank has started to bring the inflation rate back within the target range and has the necessary tools and expertise to prevent inflation from becoming entrenched. The government believes that a sound monetary policy framework is the best weapon in its arsenal to protect Canadians against inflation.

Honourable senator, Canada has the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7, and the government has a plan to make life more affordable by providing direct support to the Canadians who are the most vulnerable to inflation and who need it most. As the Minister of Finance recently stated, and I quote, “Canada is a country of peace, order and good government.”

This institutional stability includes the independence of the Bank of Canada, which the government remains firmly committed to supporting. The independence of the Bank of Canada is essential, and we can have confidence in Governor Macklem’s leadership.

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. One of my former professors of constitutional law, Laurence Tribe, often said that if you live with a crystal ball, you must be prepared to eat glass once in a while. Personally, I do not have a strong enough stomach for that. I have no idea what will happen over the next two years, but I do know that the confidence and supply agreement contains a very specific list of the terms and conditions for maintaining the coalition, and I don’t think that this issue is on the list.

[English]

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

While your government was voting against the motion in the House of Commons yesterday to recognize the Uighur genocide and to extend emergency refugee measures to the Uighur people fleeing persecution, it seems that one of the Trudeau government’s members of Parliament appeared to have done the right thing and voted in favour of the motion — Mary Ng. As it turns out, she quickly apologized and said it was a mistake. She even went to the extent, Senator Gold, of rising in the House of Commons on a point of order, asking for the record to be corrected. So the Trudeau government unanimously voted for the motion recognizing the Uighur genocide and giving these people some hope and emergency refugee measures.

I’m really perplexed as to why your government has such a difficult time doing what’s right when it comes to these basic human rights and standing up for this community. Is it because the Trudeau government is afraid of Beijing, or is it an unfortunate simple case that the Uighur people are just too small a voting bloc in Canada for our government to stand up for them?

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Ataullahjan, seconded by the Honourable Senator Plett, for the second reading of Bill S-225, An Act to amend the Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act (investments).

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Thank you for the question, Senator Wallin. You are absolutely right; it is very concerning. As you — an active member of the committee — and all of us on the committee have seen, the outgoing chair of the CRTC came before the committee.

Actually, his testimony created a storm and raised a lot more questions than he actually answered. If anything, he confirmed that what the government has been saying is the opposite of how he reads the legislation in terms of acknowledging that he will have the authority, under this bill, to force platforms to manipulate algorithms. This is, of course, of great concern to independent content providers and should be of concern to all of us.

We have taken steps to bring the CRTC chair back to the committee — at his request but as well at the request of our steering committee.

You are absolutely right. It has become evidently clear that his mandate is ending in the next little while, and the government is in search of a new CRTC chair. If one is to be logical about this, the most important part of this bill is the regulatory aspect of it, which is squarely on the shoulders of the incoming chair of the CRTC and the board.

I agree it would be irresponsible on the part of Parliament to pass this bill without getting all of our Ts crossed and Is dotted, and hearing from someone associated with the most important part of this legislation.

I know there are members of steering who wanted to pass this bill last week. We continue our discussions in terms of trying to maintain our course of having a robust, wide-ranging study. I hope that steering will agree to do that.

I will personally take to steering that we consider having the incoming CRTC chair testify, along with the minister, before we return here for final approval.

Senator Housakos: Thank you for that question as well, senator. We have. It was brought to the attention of the steering committee by Senator Klyne that we had not done enough due diligence in terms of reaching out to Indigenous voices on this bill.

There are a number of potential witnesses that steering has instructed the clerk to reach out to and bring before our committee. I don’t have the list before me, but I can assure you that we will not move forward until Indigenous voices are consulted in a robust manner.

Senator Boisvenu: I would remind you that, in terms of our NATO contribution, which represents a strategic budget relative to the conflict in Europe, Canada spends just over 1%, although the target is 2%.

When General Eyre appeared before a House of Commons committee a few days ago, he had this to say about protecting the Arctic:

If the day arrives when Canadian sovereignty is threatened, Canada’s presence there is limited. . . . Consequently, Canada needs a “sustained and visible . . . presence there.”

He was referring to a military presence. Can you provide this chamber with a copy of the Arctic defence policy that the government plans to put in place? Does the government plan to address the concerns raised by General Eyre, who believes that our Armed Forces should have a greater presence in the Arctic?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the third time?

(On motion of Senator Housakos, for Senator Ataullahjan, bill referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Carignan, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Wells, for the second reading of Bill S-231, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Criminal Records Act, the National Defence Act and the DNA Identification Act.

(On motion of Senator Cotter, debate adjourned.)

[Translation]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Boniface, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hartling, for the second reading of Bill S-232, An Act respecting the development of a national strategy for the decriminalization of illegal substances, to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

(On motion of Senator Pate, debate adjourned.)

[English]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Galvez, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gignac, for the second reading of Bill S-243, An Act to enact the Climate-Aligned Finance Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.

(On motion of Senator Housakos, debate adjourned.)

[Translation]

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Motion agreed to and bill read second time.)

Hon. Diane Bellemare, pursuant to notice of October 4, 2022, moved:

That a Special Senate Committee on Human Capital and the Labour Market be appointed until the end of the current session, to which may be referred matters relating to human capital, labour markets, and employment generally;

That the committee be composed of nine members, to be nominated by the Committee of Selection, and that four members constitute a quorum; and

That the committee be empowered to inquire into and report on such matters as may be referred to it by the Senate; to send for persons, papers and records; to hear witnesses and to publish such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the committee.

She said: Honourable senators, on behalf of the Standing Senate Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament, I have the honour to move a motion to create a Special Senate Committee on Human Capital and the Labour Market.

This motion reflects a fairly broad but not unanimous consensus on the part of committee members resulting from discussions held by the committee in February 2022, and which are currently ongoing, about the structure and mandates of committees.

We divided this review into two steps. As you know, the first step consisted of a stylistic review of the committee mandates. This step ended with the adoption by the Senate of our third report, which led to amendments to the Rules of the Senate in July 2022.

The second step of our review, which is currently under way, consists of a more in-depth study of the structure and the mandate of Senate committees. During our prior discussion in February, May and June, we noted serious problems with our committee structure. It was clear that there was an urgent need to debate issues related to employment and human capital.

Many senators on the committee expressed their concerns about the fact that important and timely issues related to the labour force, the labour market, immigration and employment are not being given proper consideration by the Senate.

As you know, honourable colleagues, labour market and human capital issues are fundamental components of creating and sharing prosperity in Canada. They’re also central to the policy choices and strategies needed to ensure continued prosperity, promote equity and combat inequality and poverty. They’re also at the root of regional concerns and solutions to encourage all groups to integrate into Canadian society.

Labour issues obviously intersect with federal and provincial jurisdictions. However, the federal government has played a unique role since it gained constitutional jurisdiction over unemployment insurance in 1940, as has the Bank of Canada, which independently monitors the country’s employment level.

The complexity of the labour market requires a nation-wide discussion between the federal and provincial levels. The Senate is well positioned to play an important role in addressing human capital and labour market issues. We have representation from all regions of Canada, we have senators with experience relevant to their region and we have the political remove to study these issues with some degree of neutrality.

Canada is facing major challenges associated with the inevitable aging of the population, which is part of the reason for the labour shortages. In addition, Indigenous peoples are experiencing high unemployment rates and would like to participate in sustainable wealth creation. We have to look at how our federal immigration, employment and workforce development strategies can help us address these issues. In addition, our Employment Insurance system, an economic stabilization force with which there were serious problems during the pandemic, still hasn’t been reformed since these events.

Currently, no committee is really working on these problems, not for lack of will or interest, but for lack of time and resources.

The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology would be the appropriate committee to study several human capital and labour market issues. However, it is the third‑busiest committee after the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance and the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, meeting an average of 55 hours per fiscal year.

We invited the Chair of the Social Affairs Committee, Senator Ratna Omidvar, as well as the former chair, Senator Chantal Petitclerc, to share their thoughts regarding the committee’s workload. The conclusion was unanimous. Human capital, the labour market and employment are all important issues that need to be examined, but the committee does not have the time to deal with them. The idea of creating a special committee on human capital and the labour market was welcomed by Senator Omidvar and Senator Petitclerc, as well as by the majority of senators from various parties and groups who sit on the Senate Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament.

Now let’s look at the specifics of the motion.

This motion proposes to create a special, not standing, Senate committee on human capital and the labour market. The proposed mandate for this committee mirrors the language we used for the stylistic review of rule 12-7. The special committee would be appointed until the end of the current session. It would therefore be temporary. It would be composed of nine members, to be nominated by the Committee of Selection. It could deal with any matters relating to human capital, labour markets and employment generally. As with most standing committees, the Senate would have to authorize it to consider any particular matter by adopting an order of reference.

Many people were concerned about this special committee’s mandate. Let me reiterate that we gave it a general mandate, as is done for all committees, because any decisions regarding the subjects to be studied, once the committee is formed, would be made by the Senate through an order of reference.

I want to be clear that an order of reference must be adopted for a committee to study any matter. The committee’s mandate in the motion remains general, yet specific enough to cover the relevant subjects.

Some senators, as well as leaders and liaisons, have raised questions about whether we have the financial and administrative capacity to create this special committee. We are short on financial resources and human resources, especially clerks, technicians and translators. We spoke with Shaila Anwar, the principal clerk for Senate committees, about the issue of human resources in a public meeting.

There is also the potential extra workload for senators that comes out of creating a committee. In that context, we even talked about reducing the number of senators per committee for the rest of the parliamentary session. Our discussions made us appreciate the need for a more thorough review of the structure and mandate of the committees, and that is what we will undertake as soon as the current study is over.

As you know, the number of committees has increased over time. A review of the structure of the committees is necessary. If we cannot increase the number of committees in the long term, perhaps we should merge committees or do things differently to ensure that committees can carry out their mandates effectively. Our future work on these issues will lead to solutions, for which I hope there will be a consensus in this place.

We asked the leaders and liaisons of each group for their opinions of our work plan for the committees file. As I stated earlier, they were not in unanimous agreement, but most were in favour of creating a special committee on human capital and the labour market. However, everyone recognized that there are constraints that must be considered.

As a democratic parliamentary institution, we must have the administrative and financial capacity to carry out our work. Reality sometimes requires us to make difficult choices about how our adminstrative and financial resources are allocated in order to prioritize certain studies over others.

I am moving this motion, not in my name, but in the name of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament, in the knowledge that we will not be able to make a decision immediately about the creation of this special committee. However, we can have a debate about whether it is necessary to create a special committee on human capital and the labour market. We are sure to find solutions for bringing this project to fruition, if that is the will of the Senate.

Thank you for listening. Meegwetch.

(On motion of Senator Patterson, debate adjourned.)

[English]

On Motion No. 83 by the Honourable Robert Black:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be authorized to meet on Tuesday, October 25, 2022, at 6:30 p.m., even though the Senate may then be sitting and that rule 12-18(1) be suspended in relation thereto.