Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. All I can tell you is that the government is working on it, both at the political level and at the level of deputy ministers, public servants and employees.

[English]

Senator Carignan: Leader, I get the impression that there is no leadership. Where are the minister and the department in all this? Where is the Prime Minister? Bureaucrats seem to have been abandoned. Is there anyone flying this plane?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Listen, this is a serious question and I will try to give a serious answer. I don’t understand all the reasons behind this problem. I am aware of it. I answered you based on the information I had. As for why things have not improved as quickly as we would have liked, I don’t have an answer to that question. I will try to find out. I’m inclined to say that when a solution is implemented it can take time for things to improve and start moving.

In all honesty, I don’t have the information to answer your questions about why there are still delays.

Senator Bellemare: Don’t you find it interesting that, under the current procedure, the Senate can, on the one hand, study bills and, on the other hand, debate changes made later at the other place?

Senator Batters: I ask for five minutes. Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Batters, so far I have three senators who wish to ask questions. Are you asking for a few minutes to answer some questions?

The Hon. the Speaker: Anne-Frédérique Gour just completed her Bachelor’s degree in International Studies and Modern Languages at the University of Ottawa. She hopes to continue working in the public service after she graduates and completes her two years as a Senate page, during which she represented the province of Quebec. Anne-Frédérique would like to thank each and every one of you for making this such a rich, unique and memorable experience.

Thank you very much, Anne-Frédérique.

Hon. Paula Simons: Would Senator Batters accept a question?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore informed the Senate that a message had been received from the House of Commons with Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

(Bill read first time.)

Hon. Brent Cotter: Senator Batters, will you take a question?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dalphond, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bovey, for the third reading of Bill S-4, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Identification of Criminals Act and to make related amendments to other Acts (COVID-19 response and other measures), as amended.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Any more senators on debate? Are senators ready for the question?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All of those in favour of the motion in amendment will please say “yea.”

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: It was moved by the Honourable Senator Gagné, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gold, that this bill be read a third time.

Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Hon. Senators: Question.

Hon. Claude Carignan: Honourable senators, I am pleased to speak today at third reading of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867, in relation to electoral representation.

First of all, I would like to make a minor correction to something I said yesterday at second reading of Bill C-14. I pointed out that the Bloc Québécois bill to ensure that Quebec never has less than 25% of the seats in the House of Commons was still being examined in the other place. I even said that I wouldn’t bet on its chances of moving forward. Apparently, it will indeed not be going any further, since Bill C-246 was defeated on June 8, so I apologize for the error. I’m grateful for the effectiveness of social media, and I especially want to thank Nicholas Thibodeau, who quickly brought to my attention the inaccuracy of that part of my speech. I wanted to set the record straight.

That being said, honourable senators, I will now begin my remarks at third reading of Bill C-14.

Canada is a very robust democracy that is the envy of many countries around the world. Our democratic values are reflected in our Constitution and our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, in our institutions, in our laws and in our electoral process, which offers Canadians the possibility of participating directly in choosing their elected members and of running as a candidate in an election. When we legislate electoral law, it is important to set partisanship aside and be even more vigilant, to ensure that the treasured gains we have made over the years and throughout the history of our country are not eroded in any way.

Section 3 of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms stipulates that any Canadian citizen has the right to vote and to be elected in a federal or provincial legislative election. For these rights to be reasonably applied and respected, they have to be framed in a fair and equitable electoral process. If, for example, no standard was applied to draw electoral boundaries, my vote in a riding of 200,000 voters would have less weight than if I lived in a riding of 30,000 voters.

That is why our laws seek to establish parity between the various ridings. However, perfect parity is impossible to achieve. I would even say that it would be harmful to try to achieve it at all costs. That is why we find different provisions in the constitutional formula for drawing electoral boundaries.

First, there is the population provision, which I believe is certainly the most important one. A set quotient is used to establish the average number of people in each riding. In that regard, the electoral commissions established in each province must ensure that the population of each riding is as close as possible to the province’s electoral quota. This can vary by plus or minus 25% if useful or necessary. However, when Bill C-74 was adopted in 1986, greater flexibility was introduced.

In a note that the Library of Parliament prepared for parliamentarians studying this bill at the time, we read the following:

To address the problems of vast ridings and to avoid their geographic expansion, Bill C-74 broadens the application of the 25% deviation by moving from the “useful and necessary” criterion to “reasonably possible”. In that regard, Bill C-74 includes the following criteria: community of identity, historical pattern, rural and northern regions. In this way, the option of a departure from the electoral quotient replaces a deviation.

That is the population provision.

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In addition, there is the senatorial clause, which ensures that no province has fewer members of Parliament than it does senators. This provision is primarily intended to protect the smaller provinces that have lower population growth than the more populous provinces.

Then there is the grandfather clause, which protects provinces whose populations are stagnant, or even declining, from losing seats in the House of Commons. This provision is currently referred to as the “1985 clause,” and, as I mentioned yesterday, it is directly affected by Bill C-14. The bill would amend this clause to bring it in line with the levels of representation in the 43rd Parliament.

Last is the territorial clause, which assigns each of the three territories one member of Parliament to represent a population that is much lower than that of other ridings. This is therefore taken into account when electoral boundaries are being drawn or new electoral districts are being created.

It is incorrect to say that our voting system perfectly represents the number of voters and populations in each electoral district. Factors such as geography, history, shared language and tradition can be taken into account when electoral boundaries are set. The Supreme Court referred to this as “effective representation.”

In a 1991 decision in Provincial Elections (Sask.), the highest court in the land stated the following:

Relative parity of voting power is a prime condition of effective representation. Deviations from absolute voter parity, however, may be justified on the grounds of practical impossibility or the provision of more effective representation. Factors like geography, community history, community interests and minority representation may need to be taken into account to ensure that our legislative assemblies effectively represent the diversity of our social mosaic. Beyond this, dilution of one citizen’s vote as compared with another’s should not be countenanced.

Further on, the Supreme Court justices added the following:

 . . . such relative parity as may be possible of achievement may prove undesirable because it has the effect of detracting from the primary goal of effective representation. Factors like geography, community history, community interests and minority representation may need to be taken into account to ensure that our legislative assemblies effectively represent the diversity of our social mosaic.

Bill C-74 was introduced in 1986 to maintain that historic right and establish a threshold as a way to counterbalance and improve effective representation. Bill C-14 is entirely consistent with that approach because it establishes the new threshold based on the electoral map of the 43rd Parliament. Quebec’s weight in the House of Commons has declined, and this enactment would restore it. To reduce Quebec’s representation in the House of Commons would be tantamount to denying the recognition of Quebec as a nation and, most importantly, the recognition that it is one of modern Canada’s two founding peoples.

With French as the common language, its own culture, its civil law tradition and unique customs and traditions, Quebec is most certainly a distinct nation, but that in no way prevents it from participating in the development and vitality of our country with vigour, integrity and drive. Therefore, I feel it is entirely legitimate to protect its representation in the House of Commons with the new 2021 clause.

We must not forget one important thing, honourable senators. Although Quebecers form a strong and proud nation, along with their fellow francophones in other provinces, this French-speaking population remains a minority in North America, a francophone minority in a sea of anglophones. As senators, we should be extremely concerned about this reality, especially in our role as defenders of minorities and of the regions. Bill C-14 essentially provides a constitutional guarantee of equitable representation in an important region of this country.

This bill is not contentious or divisive. It appeals to common sense. It does not infringe on anyone’s rights, and it provides all Canadians with a minimum guarantee of effective, fair and equitable representation. For all these reasons, honourable senators, I urge you to lend your kind support to Bill C-14.

Thank you.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.