Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, my question today is for the government leader in the Senate.

Senator Gold, the Canada Infrastructure Bank was created by the Trudeau government and has been operational since the 2017-18 fiscal year.

In the five years since its creation, the Canada Infrastructure Bank has failed to complete one single project. A recent answer to the question on the Senate’s Order Paper shows that in 2021 alone, the Canada Infrastructure Bank paid out over $5.7 million in short-term incentives to its 79 employees. This works out, Senator Gold, to a bonus of over $73,000 per employee.

Leader, how could the NDP-Liberal government possibly think that these bonuses are appropriate?

Hon. Diane Bellemare: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the second report (interim) of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament entitled Use of displays, exhibits and props in Senate proceedings and I move that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.

(On motion of Senator Bellemare, report placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.)

[English]

Hon. Yuen Pau Woo: Honourable senators, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the first report of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations, which deals with the work of the committee and other matters.

(For text of report, see today’s Journals of the Senate, p. 430-1.)

Hon. Ratna Omidvar, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, presented the following report:

Tuesday, April 5, 2022

The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology has the honour to present its

FIFTH REPORT

Your committee, to which was referred Bill S-209, An Act respecting Pandemic Observance Day, has, in obedience to the order of reference of December 9, 2021, examined the said bill and now reports the same with the following amendment:

1.Preamble, page 1:

(a) Replace line 4 with the following:

“Whereas March 11, 2021, was designated — by”;

(b) add the following after line 10:

“Whereas it is important to acknowledge the multidimensional effects of the pandemic on every person in Canada;

Whereas this pandemic has worsened the various forms of inequality in Canada and has had a disproportionate impact on the vulnerable people within society and members of historically disadvantaged groups;

And whereas it is fitting that March 11 of each year be officially designated as “Pandemic Observance Day” in order to give the Canadian public an opportunity to commemorate the efforts to get through the pandemic, to remember its effects and to reflect on ways to prepare for any future pandemics;”.

Respectfully submitted,

RATNA OMIDVAR

Chair

Senator Plett: Thank you for that. I see no reason why you would have had the information at hand, so I expect that you will get back to us on that.

I think you would agree that a bonus of $73,000 is more than the average Canadian family’s income was in 2020. The answer to my Order Paper question shows that in total since 2019, the Canada Infrastructure Bank has paid out over $10 million in short-term and long-term bonuses to its employees, again, while zero projects were completed.

Leader, your Canada Infrastructure Bank is an expensive failure. You should agree with that. Senator Gold, I think you should have the answer to why Canadian taxpayers should continue to fund the Canada Infrastructure Bank. If you don’t have the answer to that, will you get us the answer to this: Will you scrap the Canada Infrastructure Bank?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. The government is happy the work it has done has allowed the table potato export to continue, but clearly, more work needs to be done as you properly point out.

To your question, the government will continue to take what it calls a “team Canada” approach, working with the provinces, the sectors and the stakeholders and engaging at all levels to deal with the United States regarding their concerns, which they claim are based on science, in terms of the seed potatoes. That’s the best chance, colleagues, that we have to complete the reopening of the potato market in the United States.

I note that the government is providing $28 million in compensation to farmers and 290 million pounds of potatoes will be divested to processors, packers, dehydrators, food banks and other markets. Restoring complete market access for P.E.I. fresh potatoes to the United States and supporting P.E.I. farmers remain top priorities for the government.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. I think that, as for any program, government or private sector, ongoing evaluation is critical to make sure, whatever the intentions were at the beginning, that corrections are made where necessary.

In that regard, as you reported the minister reporting, these ongoing evaluations, I am confident, continue.

Hon. Rosemary Moodie: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold, disaggregated data is well understood to be key in crafting better social policies that are equitable and address various intersectionalities. Robust and modernized data collection was a significant line item in Budget 2021 at $250 million over five years, and it was part of the recommendations of the 2021 report from the National Advisory Council on Poverty.

Senator Gold, could you provide this chamber with an update on Statistics Canada’s progress on this issue and their goals for the coming fiscal year, please?

Senator Francis: Thank you for your answer, Senator Gold. I’m concerned by the impact the ongoing ban will have on the Island industry and economy. Could you please let us know when seed producers will receive financial compensation from the federal government and when other supports will be made available to those who wish to transition to other crops?

Hon. Mary Coyle: Honourable senators, my question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. Senator Gold, a recent PBO study looked at the effect of federal carbon pricing on the economy. It found that most households in the four provinces that are subject to the federal price on carbon are worse off financially.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer, Mr. Yves Giroux, noted:

Under the Government’s HEHE plan, most households in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario will see a net loss resulting from federal carbon pricing. That is, the costs they face—including the federal carbon levy, higher GST and lower incomes—will exceed the Climate Action Incentive rebate they receive.

The PBO study is based on the current situation, and we know that it doesn’t take into consideration any new green technologies that may result in cost savings, nor does it take into consideration the overall costs of climate inaction.

Senator Gold, what is the government doing to address the concerns of Canadians about carbon pricing and to, at the same time, help educate the public on the real cost of climate inaction?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you, senator, for your question. It’s an important one.

First of all, the government thanks the Parliamentary Budget Officer for his work. That work actually confirms that the price on pollution has a progressive impact and gives 8 out of 10 families more back through climate action incentive rebates than they, in fact, pay.

As colleagues know, pricing carbon pollution is a central part of Canada’s plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and drive clean innovation. It is widely regarded around the world as the most efficient policy to reduce emissions.

With regard to the second part of your question, colleague, the government has introduced a number of measures to educate Canadians on the importance of climate action, including the Climate Action and Awareness Fund, which will invest $206 million in projects that build youth awareness, engagement and action; support community-based climate action; advance climate science and technology and support academia. I also note that the government has introduced measures to support Canadians in reducing their carbon use, including the Climate Action Incentive Fund, which helps fund energy-efficient retrofits and other projects to improve energy efficiency and productivity, reducing energy use and carbon pollution while saving money.

Senator Gold: Thank you, again, for the important question. The 2030 Emissions Reduction Plan is an ambitious and, the government believes, achievable plan for Canada to reach its climate targets. The plan has been in development for months, and it includes the input of over 30,000 Canadians and, as many colleagues know, a sector-by-sector pathway.

Additionally, I note that it does provide for consultations with respect to driving down carbon pollution from the oil and gas sector. Finally, it further outlines next steps to continue delivering on those priorities for Canadians.

Hon. Brian Francis: Honourable senators, my question is for Senator Gold.

Last November, following the detection of potato wart in two fields, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency banned the export of all potatoes outside of P.E.I., including to the United States and the rest of Canada. This decision shocked and devastated the industry, which is a major employer and economic contributor in our province.

Last Friday, the ban was finally lifted on the export of P.E.I. table, or eating, potatoes, but not seed or processing potatoes, which is not expected to resume until at least 2023. That could mean two more seasons of losses.

Senator Gold, what steps, if any, are the federal government taking to move up the timeline on lifting the ban on seed potatoes?

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. Senator Gold, as I said in my statement, we are two weeks away from the anniversary of Canada’s worst mass shooting, when 22 innocent victims in Portapique lost their lives.

In February, I asked you about the families of the 22 victims, who had complained about the lack of information and especially the lack of cooperation over the past two years with respect to the public inquiry into the tragedy. Although the victims’ families were satisfied with the commissioner’s decision to call the killer’s widow and the police officers who participated in the operation to testify, these families had to fight for that information, which is totally unacceptable. I would like to remind you, Senator Gold, that the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights, a supra-constitutional statute, states in section 7 that:

Every victim has the right, on request, to information about

Have you obtained information about why the victims’ families were not part of the public inquiry even though they should have been?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question and for reminding us of this recent tragedy. I will have to work on getting you that information because I don’t have it right now. I will follow up.

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: In my statement a few moments ago, I touched on another very important issue, namely the disorganization at the RCMP. As we know, the RCMP is responsible for policing large parts of Canada’s territory and provides community-based services that are equivalent to municipal police services.

We also know that the amount of time it took to locate the killer was partly due to this disorganization and a lack of communication. The killer was intercepted by a stroke of luck. If not for that, there could have been even more victims.

Can you tell us what the minister responsible for the RCMP, the Honourable Marco Mendicino, plans to do to strengthen the RCMP and make sure it has the response capabilities it needs in order to prevent such a tragedy from happening again?

Senator Poirier: Leader, the Government of Canada has made goals or promised deadlines to be met in any number of areas. For example, by 2035, the Trudeau government aims for a net-zero emissions electricity grid. It also promised to set a target for gender equality in sports at every level by 2035.

Yet the recent Order Paper answer from the Trudeau government refuses to say whether it would set a date or goal for ending homelessness amongst veterans; it simply referred to a program that has yet to be designed.

As I mentioned earlier, leader, why won’t your government set a goal for eliminating homelessness amongst our Canadian veterans?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Leader, the NDP-Liberal government claims that even with the steady increase in the carbon tax from $50 a tonne now to $170 a tonne in 2030, Canadian households will be better off because of the rebates they will receive.

However, according to a recent report of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Manitobans — even with the rebate — will be $299 in the red this fiscal year, $402 in the red the year after that, and by 2030-31 they will suffer an annual net loss of $1,145. The results are similar in other provinces, and worse in Alberta.

Leader, who got it right, the NDP-Liberal government or the independent, non-partisan Parliamentary Budget Officer?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Your Honour, I would like to stand on a point of order.

On Thursday of last week, when I wasn’t in the chamber, the leader of the government asked Senator Housakos a question after Senator Housakos’s very good speech given in the Senate regarding hybrid sittings — and, indeed, good arguments were made by many of my colleagues — that we needed to get back to this place and do our job here the way we were intended to.

Of course, this moment is the first opportunity I have had to stand on this. I want to say at the outset, Your Honour and colleagues, that I’m not seeking any recourse; I simply want to put some things on the record as a point of order. I do that now. There is no recourse required from you, Your Honour, on this issue, as far as I’m concerned.

Senator Gold asked Senator Housakos a question, and this is from Hansard:

Our Rules, which are well established, do give both the government and the opposition a veto over whether a committee request to sit, notwithstanding that the Senate may be adjourned for over a week — they can approve or disapprove. Honourable senators will know that those requests have often been disapproved.

Senator Gold goes on to say:

I’m asking whether you would agree, in light of the legitimate concerns you’ve raised about the importance of the work we do, especially in committees, and representing the opposition as the leader — at least today — that those requests should in fact be acceded to such that committees could do the work with greater time and resources.

The words “. . . that those requests should in fact be acceded to . . .” imply that you just simply approve whatever request is made.

I wasn’t here to defend myself, Your Honour. When comments like “have often been disapproved” are made, I would take that not as an accusation, but at least as an assertion that I had rather flippantly not given approval to committees that wanted to sit on Mondays after the Senate had been away for more than a week.

I had a clerk of committees do some research for me and help me with this, and I would like to put on the record that there were a total of 13 requests made for 24 different committee meetings. I approved 18 of the 24 meetings. I’m not sure what “often been disapproved” means.

For the week of January 31 to February 4 of this year, there were five committees that had originally requested to meet. I withdrew approval for three of them because they were meeting on future business only. As I explained to the clerk, I did so in light of decisions made to extend the adjournment of the Senate to limit the number of staff on site because of the convoy in downtown Ottawa. I said that, because of what we were told were dangerous circumstances for people to come to work, the Conservatives would be withdrawing approval for committee meetings that did not have any business before them. For committees with no business before them, we withdrew approval for them to sit.

The two committees that did meet with our approval had witnesses invited, so it was important that they meet.

For the week of March 21, 2021 — a year ago — I, again, did not give approval for a meeting of the Legal Committee during a break week, which was a meeting on Bill C-3, because not all the steering members had been consulted.

Your Honour and colleagues, we have seen motions brought forward here that would give committees the opportunity to meet without consultation between the government leader and the Leader of the Opposition, and that is when we would have a runaway train.

There are reasons we have had rules in this place for 150 years — rules that have actually accommodated us quite well. There is a specific reason why it has been decided that the government leader and the Leader of the Opposition decide whether committees should meet at certain times. Generally, they gather all the facts and do not just simply, 30 seconds, or a minute and 30 seconds after a request is made — as we have seen on some occasions — reply with an email that reads, “I agree.” Rather, we think this through and see whether there may be problems.

Without question, colleagues, it is a problem with translation and setting up hybrid meetings. It is easy to have meetings when we are all here and meet in person. Yes, translation is needed, but we don’t need all the resources required for hybrid meetings. There are a limited number of committees that can meet at one time. That has to be considered.

The government casting aspersions on the opposition does not help with camaraderie. It does not help us to get along, negotiate and facilitate each other’s requests, and work in the spirit of unity. Too often, I believe, one side is being accused of not listening. Senator Housakos, who was in no position to know what meetings I had approved, had not approved and why they weren’t approved, gets asked in my absence, and a suggestion is made in my absence that these requests have often been disapproved.

I take issue with that. I take issue with the fact that the government is trying to put the opposition into a defence position. That’s not the way this chamber has worked in the past. The government needs to defend what they are doing.

Even though we are called the opposition, I believe that I and leaders of the opposition before me have tried to work in a collaborative way, and we would like to continue to do that. I quite frankly think that Senator Gold has the same desires and has done the same things. But when a senator is not here to defend himself or herself, to have a question like that put forward and to have a comment like that made when it is an absolutely untrue statement, I find troubling.

But I have put it on the record, Your Honour, and I would just as soon simply let it stand for the record, that we move on and that we, including myself, all try to do better in the future. Thank you.