The Hon. the Speaker: Do we have an agreement between the whip and the Government Liaison for a bell?

Senator Moncion: I would just like to say that my point of order was not silly, because things were moving according to the usual order. In my view, you did not make a mistake, but I accept that you went back on your decision. However, I have a problem with my point of order being called silly. I feel that it is inappropriate language that diminishes my role as a senator who pays attention to what happens in this chamber.

[English]

The Hon. the Speaker: I’m not going to ask anyone to speak on this.

Before telling the Senate that I would normally take this under advisement, I’m going to put the question to the chamber.

Senator Plett is asking again that we revert to Motion No. 50 and we give Senator Wells an opportunity to adjourn it. However, it will take leave. I’m asking the chamber now again, after Senator Plett’s speech, if you will give leave. If you are opposed to leave, please say “no.”

Leave is granted. Senator Wells.

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dean, seconded by the Honourable Senator Saint-Germain:

That, pursuant to rule 12-18(2), for the remainder of this session, the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence be authorized to meet at their approved meeting time as determined by the third report of the Committee of Selection, adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, on any Monday which immediately precedes a Tuesday when the Senate is scheduled to sit, even though the Senate may then be adjourned for a period exceeding a week.

Hon. Frances Lankin: Welcome, minister, and thank you for being here.

The problem with being at the end of the list is that two questions I wanted to ask have already been asked. Regardless, let me go to a strange place. This is about provincial jurisdiction, school curriculum and what Canada and the federal government can do to influence curriculum-setting at the school board and provincial levels.

We know there is a lot of good work going on educating around the environment and climate change, particularly in elementary schools. There is less at the secondary level, and we know that children lose their zeal for environmental consciousness and change as they age. I believe we need to get into the secondary schools, but I think it needs to be a pan-Canadian initiative with provincial partnerships.

Could you tell us whether there is anything going on with respect to that? Might it be an idea that a group of us can work with you on?

The Hon. the Speaker: I hear a no. I’m sorry, Senator Wells.

[Translation]

Hon. Pat Duncan: Will Senator Griffin take a question?

Senator Griffin: Most certainly.

Senator Duncan: Thank you, Senator Griffin, for your incredible service to Prince Edward Island and to this chamber. We so appreciate your contribution and all that you have done, and we would like to thank you and your family.

Also being from a small part of the country, your arguments today truly resonate with me. The unfairness of the situation strikes me as untenable in our country. It further strengthens Senator Downe’s argument about decentralization so that the individuals who are creating programs have an appreciation of the country, and perhaps one size does not fit all.

Without causing any undue delay, my question, Senator Griffin, is this: How can we help you? To whom are you assigning the task of taking this forward?

Senator Griffin: That is one of the things I have not assigned as yet. Many other things have been hived off. But there will be discussions. Are you volunteering, perhaps?

Hon. Terry M. Mercer: Good afternoon, minister. Thank you for being here.

Your mandate letter specifically states that you shall:

Support efforts to advance the Atlantic Loop initiative to connect surplus clean power to regions transitioning away from coal and to help transform how we power our economy and communities.

According to a recent news report, it appears that the federal government is not yet ready to decide how to proceed with investing in this project. The Atlantic Loop, or Maritime Link, is not a new idea and has been around for a while. Your mandate letter indicates that you should be advancing its support.

Minister, if the federal government appears to support the project and the four Atlantic premiers are all for it, why is it not going forward? What’s the holdup?

Hon. David M. Wells (Acting Leader of the Opposition): Minister, there are 8 trillion cubic feet of proven gas reserves in the Jeanne d’Arc Basin off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. One trillion cubic feet of gas replaces 170 million barrels of oil.

There is a company in Newfoundland and Labrador that is proposing to produce and sell 3 trillion cubic feet of this liquefied natural gas, which is over 500 million barrels of oil to be replaced.

This partnership includes the Miawpukek First Nation on the Conne River, the project requires no drilling and it will use 100% renewable energy to liquify the gas for transport to Europe and markets around the world. In fact, for any Canadian energy product, this location is the shortest route to the key markets of Europe. Phase one of the project is estimated to cost $5.5 billion and take up to seven years.

Minister Guilbeault, are these Canadian investors wasting their time and their money?

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you very much for the question, senator. As you probably know, I was Heritage Minister before becoming Environment Minister and, as such, I was responsible for co-implementing the Indigenous Languages Act with Métis, First Nations and the Inuit people. Our government has increased funding for Indigenous languages 25 times compared to what it was before we came into power in 2015.

I also co-developed with Indigenous leadership the proposal that became the bill that created the first-ever National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.

The same goes for the environment. You talked about the Indigenous Guardians program. I believe it is a great success. Frankly, there’s no doubt in my mind that we cannot move forward in creating new protected areas in Canada without full engagement at the table with Indigenous people. In fact, last week, for the first time in the history of our country, we signed an MOU with the Nunatsiavut Government — involved from the get-go — to look into the creation of a new protected area.

Historically, when we’ve done that, we started working on new protected areas and then, somewhere along the way, we said it would be nice to engage with First Nations or Indigenous people. Last week, for the first time ever, we did it from start. That will be our model going forward.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. We designed the carbon pricing system to be sensitive to the particular needs of Northern residents. We return all the carbon pricing revenue to the Government of Nunavut to use as they see fit, including helping defray the cost of living. The federal pricing system does not apply to flights within the territory, nor does it apply to diesel that is used for power in remote communities.

We have ongoing discussions with the Government of Nunavut, as well as the governments of the other territories, to ensure that the measures we’re putting in place to fight climate change are not adversely impacting them.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you for the question, senator. I am obligated by law to table the emissions reduction plan by the end of the month, so it will be done. The answer to your first question is yes.

The Net-Zero Advisory Body is a very important group helping the government to lay the path toward our net-zero society in 2050. It plays a very important role. I have had several meetings with them since I’ve been nominated Environment Minister. They play an exceedingly important role. We have been engaging with them in the elaboration of the emissions reduction plan. Unfortunately, since it’s not public yet, I can’t comment on specific elements of the plan. You will have to be patient for just a few more weeks.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you for your question. I would like to correct something you said. The federal government does not subsidize the production of wind energy or solar energy. Currently, we do subsidize the production of fossil fuels in this country, but we don’t directly subsidize the production of renewable energies.

The government is encouraging research in and development of nuclear technology. We have to look at all non-emitting technologies in order to fight climate change. If nuclear energy can perform, on a cost basis, with other forms of non-emitting technologies, then there will be a place for it. The federal government does not develop energy projects. Energy projects are developed by provinces and territories, not by the federal government.

[Translation]

Hon. Rosa Galvez: Minister, your mandate letter asks you to work with the President of the Treasury Board on the application of a climate lens to ensure climate adaptation and mitigation considerations are integrated throughout federal government decision making. I was pleased to see that because it was one of the recommendations I made in my white paper on a clean and just recovery. Infrastructure Canada already has a climate lens, but it applies only to projects that are part of clean infrastructure programs. It should apply to all projects and all policies.

Can you tell us what that climate lens will look like and what factors it will consider as part of government policy analysis? When can we expect the policy to be implemented in all government departments and agencies?

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator, for your question. I was talking earlier about the National Adaptation Strategy, and there is no doubt in my mind that we can’t do that without municipalities at the table. In fact, just two weeks ago, I was having a meeting specifically on that with the Canadian Federation of Municipalities. We have already started engaging with them on that, but we want them to be at the table for the elaboration of that National Adaptation Strategy.

We have already started investing in adaptation measures with municipalities. I will give the example of an investment that Infrastructure Canada made for the creation of a new urban park on the West Island of Montreal. Obviously, it’s a park, but one of the interesting features of that park is that it will help with flood mitigation during the spring in that part of the island of Montreal, where we have recurring floods year after year. The park has an adaptation and preparedness element embedded in it. Projects like that are becoming more and more common, and we’re doing those with municipalities.

Senator Clement: Thank you.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. I haven’t seen this particular news article you are referring to, but I would vehemently dispute its findings, because the Atlantic Loop is a priority for our government. We are engaged with the Atlantic provinces on the project. I myself have had a number of meetings with the Atlantic ministers and with people who are in charge within the government of advancing this project, working with the natural resources minister and the infrastructure minister.

We can’t help the Atlantic provinces decarbonize their electricity sector without the Atlantic Loop. It just can’t happen. Nova Scotia still relies on coal for 60 percent of its electricity. How do we help them get off coal? The Atlantic Loop.

We are hard at work, and I am confident that we will see progress soon on this very important file.

Hon. Hassan Yussuff: Welcome, minister, and thank you for being here.

As you know, to meet our net-zero objectives by 2050, it will require some transition measures across the country. Communities are deeply impacted. When can workers in communities expect a just transition legislation tabled by your government?

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. I salute the work that you did on coal, to work with communities and workers as we transition away from coal.

As you know, this is not part of my mandate letter, but it is part of many of my cabinet colleagues’ mandate letters. Even though it’s not in my mandate letter, I have engaged with them on that, and I think you will see significant progress on that in the coming months.

[Translation]

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. As a legislator, I’m always open to making my bills better, and I would invite you or any member of the Senate to come forward with proposals to improve and strengthen the bill as it moves forward.

I should also say that this is the first part of modernization that we want to do with the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. There are other elements that we want to bring forward at a later date. We thought there are so many changes that need to happen, we couldn’t do them all at once. This is the first stage, but I welcome your proposals to improve the bill, senator.