Hon. Terry M. Mercer: Good afternoon, minister. Thank you for being here.

Your mandate letter specifically states that you shall:

Support efforts to advance the Atlantic Loop initiative to connect surplus clean power to regions transitioning away from coal and to help transform how we power our economy and communities.

According to a recent news report, it appears that the federal government is not yet ready to decide how to proceed with investing in this project. The Atlantic Loop, or Maritime Link, is not a new idea and has been around for a while. Your mandate letter indicates that you should be advancing its support.

Minister, if the federal government appears to support the project and the four Atlantic premiers are all for it, why is it not going forward? What’s the holdup?

Hon. David M. Wells (Acting Leader of the Opposition): Minister, there are 8 trillion cubic feet of proven gas reserves in the Jeanne d’Arc Basin off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. One trillion cubic feet of gas replaces 170 million barrels of oil.

There is a company in Newfoundland and Labrador that is proposing to produce and sell 3 trillion cubic feet of this liquefied natural gas, which is over 500 million barrels of oil to be replaced.

This partnership includes the Miawpukek First Nation on the Conne River, the project requires no drilling and it will use 100% renewable energy to liquify the gas for transport to Europe and markets around the world. In fact, for any Canadian energy product, this location is the shortest route to the key markets of Europe. Phase one of the project is estimated to cost $5.5 billion and take up to seven years.

Minister Guilbeault, are these Canadian investors wasting their time and their money?

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you very much for the question, senator. As you probably know, I was Heritage Minister before becoming Environment Minister and, as such, I was responsible for co-implementing the Indigenous Languages Act with Métis, First Nations and the Inuit people. Our government has increased funding for Indigenous languages 25 times compared to what it was before we came into power in 2015.

I also co-developed with Indigenous leadership the proposal that became the bill that created the first-ever National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.

The same goes for the environment. You talked about the Indigenous Guardians program. I believe it is a great success. Frankly, there’s no doubt in my mind that we cannot move forward in creating new protected areas in Canada without full engagement at the table with Indigenous people. In fact, last week, for the first time in the history of our country, we signed an MOU with the Nunatsiavut Government — involved from the get-go — to look into the creation of a new protected area.

Historically, when we’ve done that, we started working on new protected areas and then, somewhere along the way, we said it would be nice to engage with First Nations or Indigenous people. Last week, for the first time ever, we did it from start. That will be our model going forward.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. We designed the carbon pricing system to be sensitive to the particular needs of Northern residents. We return all the carbon pricing revenue to the Government of Nunavut to use as they see fit, including helping defray the cost of living. The federal pricing system does not apply to flights within the territory, nor does it apply to diesel that is used for power in remote communities.

We have ongoing discussions with the Government of Nunavut, as well as the governments of the other territories, to ensure that the measures we’re putting in place to fight climate change are not adversely impacting them.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you for the question, senator. I am obligated by law to table the emissions reduction plan by the end of the month, so it will be done. The answer to your first question is yes.

The Net-Zero Advisory Body is a very important group helping the government to lay the path toward our net-zero society in 2050. It plays a very important role. I have had several meetings with them since I’ve been nominated Environment Minister. They play an exceedingly important role. We have been engaging with them in the elaboration of the emissions reduction plan. Unfortunately, since it’s not public yet, I can’t comment on specific elements of the plan. You will have to be patient for just a few more weeks.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you for your question. I would like to correct something you said. The federal government does not subsidize the production of wind energy or solar energy. Currently, we do subsidize the production of fossil fuels in this country, but we don’t directly subsidize the production of renewable energies.

The government is encouraging research in and development of nuclear technology. We have to look at all non-emitting technologies in order to fight climate change. If nuclear energy can perform, on a cost basis, with other forms of non-emitting technologies, then there will be a place for it. The federal government does not develop energy projects. Energy projects are developed by provinces and territories, not by the federal government.

[Translation]

Hon. Rosa Galvez: Minister, your mandate letter asks you to work with the President of the Treasury Board on the application of a climate lens to ensure climate adaptation and mitigation considerations are integrated throughout federal government decision making. I was pleased to see that because it was one of the recommendations I made in my white paper on a clean and just recovery. Infrastructure Canada already has a climate lens, but it applies only to projects that are part of clean infrastructure programs. It should apply to all projects and all policies.

Can you tell us what that climate lens will look like and what factors it will consider as part of government policy analysis? When can we expect the policy to be implemented in all government departments and agencies?

Senator Clement: Thank you.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. I haven’t seen this particular news article you are referring to, but I would vehemently dispute its findings, because the Atlantic Loop is a priority for our government. We are engaged with the Atlantic provinces on the project. I myself have had a number of meetings with the Atlantic ministers and with people who are in charge within the government of advancing this project, working with the natural resources minister and the infrastructure minister.

We can’t help the Atlantic provinces decarbonize their electricity sector without the Atlantic Loop. It just can’t happen. Nova Scotia still relies on coal for 60 percent of its electricity. How do we help them get off coal? The Atlantic Loop.

We are hard at work, and I am confident that we will see progress soon on this very important file.

Hon. Hassan Yussuff: Welcome, minister, and thank you for being here.

As you know, to meet our net-zero objectives by 2050, it will require some transition measures across the country. Communities are deeply impacted. When can workers in communities expect a just transition legislation tabled by your government?

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. I salute the work that you did on coal, to work with communities and workers as we transition away from coal.

As you know, this is not part of my mandate letter, but it is part of many of my cabinet colleagues’ mandate letters. Even though it’s not in my mandate letter, I have engaged with them on that, and I think you will see significant progress on that in the coming months.

[Translation]

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. As a legislator, I’m always open to making my bills better, and I would invite you or any member of the Senate to come forward with proposals to improve and strengthen the bill as it moves forward.

I should also say that this is the first part of modernization that we want to do with the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. There are other elements that we want to bring forward at a later date. We thought there are so many changes that need to happen, we couldn’t do them all at once. This is the first stage, but I welcome your proposals to improve the bill, senator.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, senator. I am very seized with the issue of helping Canadians of all ages better understand sustainability and the issue of climate change.

As you rightly point out, education is a provincial jurisdiction, which doesn’t preclude us from talking to provinces and territories about things like communicating about environmental issues. In fact, we support initiatives that are not necessarily directly through the educational system but that are done by organizations which they themselves operate within the confines of the educational systems. Those are around environment and climate change education.

So this is an important thing. In fact, there is a tremendous body of science around the communications on environmental issues and how to communicate on climate change. We are working with some of those experts to improve our own communications at the federal level, and we’ll be encouraging our colleagues in the provinces and territories to do the same.

Hon. Paula Simons: Minister, in January, the Parliamentary Budget Officer tabled a report that examined the probable cost of cleaning up orphan wells in Western Canada and whether the government had allotted enough funds for the cleanup. The PBO found that $556 million in federal funds had been allocated to Alberta but that those funds had gone primarily to 10 large oil and gas companies, all of which were quite solvent and able to do their own cleanup. In fact, almost one fifth of the monies — more than $102 million — went to one oil giant, Canadian Natural Resources Limited, a company that just posted net earnings of $7.7 billion and dividends of $2.2 billion.

I asked the Parliamentary Budget Office whether the subsidy had led to the accelerated cleanup of any inactive wells, and the answer appeared to be that no one knew. Then I asked whether any of that $556 million had actually gone to cleaning up orphan wells, and I was told that not one single orphan well in Alberta had been cleaned up with this grant money.

I will ask you what I asked Senator Gold the other day: What exactly did we get for the $102.5 million we gave to CNRL?

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Unfortunately, this program is not one that was developed or operated by Environment and Climate Change Canada but by Natural Resources Canada. I would be happy to talk to my colleague Minister Wilkinson to ask him to provide you with the information that you seek, but I don’t have that information.

(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Hon. Diane F. Griffin: Honourable senators, I would like to take this three-minute senator’s statement to thank many people. That’s all I want to do. I would like to thank the kind people for the kind remarks I received yesterday. That was very nice of you. You were very creative.

I’ve made a lot of friends in this chamber, and we’re going to stay in touch. There is a number of us who will go golfing: Senator Oh, when he comes to Prince Edward Island, and for five years now Jane Cordy and I have been trying to golf together. This year we’re definitely going to do it.

I would like to, first of all, thank my staff. As we all know, they do yeoman’s service for us, and we couldn’t do what we do here without their help: Lyle Skinner, Terri McGarry, Joanne Shields and formerly Sylvie Bédard who used to work for me. The first three still do. They’ve been great people with whom to work.

It has been a real honour to serve in this house. When summoned, I was thrilled beyond words, to tell the truth. At that time, there were fewer than 1,000 people who had ever been appointed to the Senate. It’s a little over 1,000 now with some new senators.

Over that time, I’ve had three seatmates. Senator Dean and I were sworn in at the same time and were seatmates. Then the late Senator Elaine McCoy, and more recently Senator Scott Tannas and I were seatmates. I keep shrinking in stature with each in comparison.

I mentioned that I have friends throughout this chamber. There are a lot of people in this chamber who have been mentors to me, and others when we came in. That is greatly appreciated.

I especially want to thank my husband, Kevin, and my daughter Sharleen. Without their support, it would be very difficult to be where I am. They’ve helped me immeasurably, as you can imagine.

So what’s next for Senator Griffin, soon to be a has-been? There will be a lot of golfing. It’s going to be a great summer. My membership is already paid up at Fox Meadow Golf Course. Senator Kutcher and I have cards to play all of the eastern courses this year: he and his wife, my brother and I. Senator Seidman is talking about coming to Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland sometime, so I’ll get her into birdwatching in a big way. She’ll have to bring her own binoculars, and if she doesn’t have them I have a guest pair. She’ll be all set.

So birdwatching, Texas hold ’em poker, land conservation and a little bit of skiing are next for me. It has been an honour to be here. Thank you everybody.

Hon. Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you for your question, senator. I want to start by pointing out that we do not have the worst record in the G7. According to Energy Policy Tracker, an independent international NGO, our economic recovery plan is the greenest among all G7 countries in relation to investments, not in relative terms, but in absolute terms, and it ranks second in the G20. That said, Canada has a lot of work to do to combat climate change.

Since we came to power . . . Why didn’t all the previous governments meet their targets? The answer is simple. None of these governments set themselves up to meet their targets. Since 2016, we have made significant investments, to the tune of $100 billion, and we have adopted a series of policies and regulations that will help us meet our targets, such as creating the carbon tax and reducing emissions of methane, which is a very powerful greenhouse gas. We are committed to regulating vehicle emissions. All of these measures will help us meet our targets.

Hon. Marty Klyne: Minister, your mandate letter reflects the importance of partnering with Indigenous nations to fight climate change, conserve wildlife and safeguard freshwater. The Indigenous Guardians program is one such successful example.

I look forward to your establishment of a Canada water agency, especially as Saskatchewan has expertise in freshwater infrastructure and related agricultural issues. The First Nations University of Canada, the University of Regina and the University of Saskatchewan also present opportunities to blend Western science and traditional knowledge toward innovative solutions in managing freshwater resources. Could you please comment on the value of Indigenous-led stewardship and the need to continue to work collaboratively with the Indigenous partners in the long term to protect our environment?