Senator Gold: In matters of what is included in the budget, not only do I not know, but I want to be transparent: I’m not sure this is something that I would be in a position to disclose until such time as the budget lockdown is completed.

That said, I want to repeat something I said earlier today and underline the commitment of this government to work with the communities of people with disabilities to jointly develop programs to assist them so as to better integrate and participate in Canadian society. That remains the position and the commitment of this government.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question.

As I stated in the last Parliament — and I’m glad you have raised the question again — those programs are important. Like you, I am glad that a solution was found, albeit an interim one.

I will have to make inquiries as to whether funding for that program will continue or what other measures may be taken to assist them to make sure that those with disabilities have access to reading materials. I engage to do that.

Senator Martin: Those were not the only groups that had to face the potential loss until the interim solution appeared. In 2018, the Trudeau government attempted to cut $2.5 million from the Canadian National Institute for the Blind’s accessible book program when their funding was excluded from the 2018 budget. Under pressure, however, that funding was restored.

I know that Minister Freeland and your government are producing a budget in a few months from now. Time is of the essence. I know you can’t commit today, but as you’re inquiring about the other two organizations and a more permanent or long-term solution, are you able to confirm whether they will not be in the budget — that we will not be cutting funding for the visually impaired Canadians in Budget 2022? Is that something you can also inquire about?

Hon. Robert Black: Honourable senators, I have risen on a number of occasions in this chamber and in the Committee on Agriculture and Forestry to speak about the importance of soil health. Today, I would like to highlight the United Nations World Soil Day, which takes place every December 5, which is this Sunday. This year’s campaign, Halt soil salinization, Boost soil productivity, aims to raise awareness of the growing challenges in soil management, fighting soil salinization and increasing soil health awareness.

As a longstanding member of Ontario’s agricultural community, I know just how important the health of soils is to all of us. In fact, while I was off the Hill this past summer, I was on the farms and in the fields. During the summer recess and into the fall harvest season, I had the opportunity to visit many communities across Ontario, from Bayfield to Ottawa, Thunder Bay to Wellington County and many communities in between, in addition to touring parts of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba to learn more about Canadian agriculture, the work being done, the challenges faced and the successes achieved by farmers across this great country. My tours also included meetings with municipal officials; opening agricultural fairs; visits to carrot and potato farms; beef, sheep and bison farms; breweries, wineries and cideries; local research stations; and innovative greenhouses, among many others.

During my tours, I heard about many issues, including those surrounding labour, infrastructure and transportation, irrigation and water, food security, carbon pricing and soil health, just to name a few. As one of Canada’s most precious natural resources, soil health and conservation was a top-of-mind matter as I heard from agriculture from across this country.

Agriculture is a complex and changing industry, and I believe it is in Canada’s best interests to continue to enhance and strengthen this sector to ensure that generations to come will be able to enjoy the fruits of its labours. In order for future generations to continue enjoying these fruits — and vegetables, among other agriculture products — the industry must be given the tools to continue being a leader on the global stage and become even more competitive. For that to be possible, our soils must remain healthy and arable.

Honourable senators, ensuring the health and conservation of Canadian soils is a shared responsibility and will require collective leadership and sustained commitment and action, not only by those directly responsible for managing soil across the country, but by all levels of government as well. I encourage you to take the time to learn more about the state of our soils while marking United Nations World Soil Day on December the 5 and support efforts to raise awareness and celebrate Canadian biodiversity. Thank you. Meegwetch.

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Martin, I regret to inform you that your time is up.

The Hon. the Speaker: If you’re opposed to leave, please say “no.”

The second thing, honourable senators, is that normally, because of rule 3-3(1), I would be required to leave the chair at six o’clock. But since this is the last matter on the Order Paper, if you’re opposed to going beyond six o’clock so that Senator Harder can have his five minutes, please say “no.”

Then I won’t see the clock. I would ask senators — since we only have five minutes — to please keep their questions brief.

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker: If anybody is opposed to leave, please say no.

Senator Batters, do you have a question?

Hon Senators: Agreed.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this report be taken into consideration?

(On motion of Senator MacDonald, report placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.)

Hon. Michael L. MacDonald, Chair of the Committee of Selection, presented the following report:

Thursday, December 2, 2021

The Committee of Selection has the honour to present its

THIRD REPORT

On November 25, 2021, the Senate authorized your committee to make recommendations to the Senate on issues relating to the scheduling and coordination of hybrid committee meetings. Your committee now presents an interim report.

Pursuant to the order of the Senate of November 25, 2021, authorizing committees to hold hybrid meetings, and based on the Senate’s current capacity to support hybrid meetings, your committee makes the following recommendations:

1.That Senate committees be authorized to meet according to a fixed committee schedule provided that:

(a)meetings of committees be prioritized for those that are meeting on government business, subject to available capacity;

(b)any changes to the approved schedule be subject to approval by the Government Liaison, the Opposition Whip, and the whips and liaisons of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups.

2.Your committee also appends to this report an interim schedule for hybrid Senate committee meetings, and further recommends that:

(a)the interim schedule be implemented immediately; and

(b)any subsequent changes deemed useful or necessary be done in consultation with the Government Liaison, the Opposition Whip, and the whips and liaisons of all recognized parties and recognized parliamentary groups.

Respectfully submitted,

MICHAEL L. MACDONALD

Chair

Hon. Senators: Question.

The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?

Hon. Peter Harder rose pursuant to notice of November 25, 2021:

That he will call the attention of the Senate to the role and mandate of the RCMP, the skills and capabilities required for it to fulfill its role and mandate, and how it should be organized and resourced in the 21st century.

He said: Honourable senators, I appreciate your indulgence at this hour for me to rise on this inquiry. But I want to remind those of you who aren’t particular Order Paper aficionados that this inquiry has been on the Order Paper since March 14 and this is the first day since then that we actually got to this point on the Order Paper, so I want to take full advantage.

I rise on a matter of compelling national interest, one that has special relevance to members of this house, because it has to do with the health, competence and future of a once-great institution. That institution is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I speak as a former deputy solicitor general and deputy minister of public security. Also, prior to my appointment to the Senate, I served as the volunteer chair of the National Police Services Advisory Council.

As honourable senators will know, the RCMP was the subject of a recent, scathing report by the Honourable Michel Bastarache, a former justice of the Supreme Court of Canada. The report was entitled Broken Dreams, Broken Lives and it makes for harrowing reading.

Justice Bastarache was appointed in 2017 as the independent assessor responsible for adjudicating claims of sexual harassment and assault by more than 3,000 current and former female employees of the RCMP, regular members, civilian members and public servants over a period of more than 30 years. He and his colleagues spent literally hundreds of hours interviewing women whose dreams of a rewarding career as members of an iconic Canadian institution were destroyed by what he calls “. . . a toxic work environment . . .” and an institutional culture that, in his words:

. . . has resulted in incalculable damage to female members of the RCMP as well as those working for the public service.

It is a damning report. According to Justice Bastarache, “The level of violence and sexual assault that was reported was shocking.”

This is not a problem of a few bad apples. It is a systemic problem. He says:

. . . the culture of the RCMP is toxic and tolerates misogyny and homophobia at all ranks and in all provinces and territories.

Justice Bastarache, like others before him — including a distinguished former Auditor General — described a deeply troubled institution whose problems stem from an outdated paramilitary culture, from poor management over many decades and, importantly for this house, a mandate that is simply too large and too heavily oriented to a provincial policing role that is no longer appropriate for a critically important federal organization. It’s too big to succeed.

The RCMP mandate today includes everything from municipal policing, even in large urban areas such as Surrey and Richmond, B.C.; to provincial policing in 8 of 10 provinces and three territories; policing on hundreds of First Nations and responsibility as Canada’s federal police service dealing with everything from organized crime to terrorism to drugs and human smuggling. To that, you can add responsibility for providing forensic and other technical services in support of police agencies across the country.

This is an enormous mandate. Many members of the RCMP will tell you this uniquely comprehensive policing role brings great advantages. They will tell you that time spent chasing police cars on the Trans-Canada Highway is useful training for white-collar investigations of money laundering or online sexual abuse of children. I don’t agree. Many Canadians, especially in Western Canada, see the RCMP as a much-loved symbol of a measured and responsible approach to policing in their communities.

The scarlet coat, the iconic image of the mounted police officer, the rigorous training at Depot in Regina — these are all seen as noteworthy elements of Canadian history and worthy subjects of national pride. Honourable senators, that was the view of the RCMP I grew up with, as I’m sure many of you did, and some of you joined. I not only believe but I know the vast majority of men and women in the RCMP are serving their community and country with honour. It is not the individuals as much as the institution that is often failing Canada today.

Today, we are asking the RCMP and its employees to do the impossible. An increasing number of thoughtful people in the criminal justice world see the RCMP today as an organization that is simply ill-equipped and unprepared to deal with the new challenges to public safety we face in 2021.

Challenges that require new kinds of people, different skills, different training, a different organizational structure and focus and a dramatically different allocation of resources. Is the RCMP in those eight provinces — all but Ontario and Quebec — a province police force or a federal one? Speaking as a former deputy minister of the federal department responsible for the RCMP, I can tell you the answer is never clear. In fact, the RCMP in those eight provinces sees itself as both federal and provincial, something that does nothing to clarify accountability when things go wrong.

Last April, we witnessed a tragic incident in Nova Scotia where 22 people were killed. There are questions over the immediate response and confusion over which level of government — provincial or federal — should be responsible for the subsequent inquiry.

Sadly, experience suggests the RCMP is a provincial force accountable to the provincial Attorney General when that suits the interests of the divisional commander, and a federal force when the advantage tips the other way.

(1750)

One thing that seems to always be true is that the focus of the organization as a whole is on its traditional policing responsibilities at the provincial level — serving communities, responding to individual problems and dealing with local offences. After all, those eight provinces pay at least 70% of the cost of provincial policing, and in some cases as high as 90%. Many would argue that they should pay the full cost, let alone the bizarre situation of taxpayers in have-not provinces subsidizing police offerings in the other half of the provinces. What all of this means, however, is that in a very real sense, the provinces call the tune for a large part of the policing activity of a $3.5 billion federal organization with over 30,000 employees.

At the same time, the RCMP is widely seen as neglecting its critical federal role, a role that only it can play. Canada’s capacity to deal with 21st century threats such as money laundering, human smuggling, transnational crime, hate crime, illegal immigration and opioid smuggling is, in the minds of most observers, simply inadequate. Something doesn’t add up here. Our national police service is spending most of its efforts on activities the provinces can and should be doing while neglecting the job that only it can do. In summary, the RCMP is both too big to succeed and unfit for its purpose.

Honourable senators, I believe we need to take a look at this. I believe the members of this chamber are well equipped to do what Justice Bastarache recommended, which was to carry out:

. . . an in depth, external and independent review of the organization and future of the RCMP as a federal policing organization.

I’m not suggesting we go over ground already covered all too thoroughly by Justice Bastarache or by the office of previous reports on problems of the RCMP. Rather, I am proposing that we conduct an inquiry into the future of the organization; its role and mandate; how it should be organized and resourced to deliver on what we see as an appropriate role and an appropriate mandate for the 21st century; the skills and other capabilities required to be an effective national police force; related issues of recruitment, training and development; and any other issues that, in the view of the honourable senators, are relevant to the affirmation and renewal of a great national institution.

There should be no doubt in the mind of any Canadian that a vital national institution that we’ve all been brought up to admire and respect has serious problems that require rigorous examination, public debate and an openness by the government to consider significant change. Again, in the words of Justice Bastarache:

. . . the time has come for an in depth, external and independent review of the organization and future of the RCMP as a federal policing organization.

Honourable senators, this is a job we can do. It is a job where we have within our ranks the experience, knowledge and judgment to carry out this vital role both expertly and responsibly. We can even do it efficiently. I’ve always believed that one of the essential responsibilities of this legislative body is the care of Canada’s national institutions. We can exercise that duty in a relatively non-partisan way. We can bring a national perspective to national concerns.

The RCMP is too important a Canadian institution to be ignored at this critical juncture in its history. I am therefore suggesting the creation of a special Senate committee to inquire into the future of the RCMP with membership to be determined after consultation with all groups in this chamber. I hope that this inquiry can spark some Senate interest and urge senators who have an interest in this matter to speak so in the future of this inquiry’s discussions. Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Harder, you have a little less than five minutes left in your time and there are three senators who wish to ask questions. Would you take a question?

Senator Harder: Certainly.

Hon. Larry W. Campbell: Would the honourable senator take a question?

Senator Harder: Certainly.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Harder, you are coming to the end of your time and there are three other senators who wish to ask questions. We are also going to bump up against six o’clock, the time when I’m required to leave the chair.

First, would you ask for five more minutes to answer questions from three other senators?

Senator Harder: I’d be happy to.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Boniface, we have one minute for your question and an answer.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

(On motion of Senator Carignan, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.)

[English]