Senator Bellemare: I have a supplementary.

No, my question was around the idea that it’s very difficult to intervene in the paradigm of Senator Woo’s that takes into account that the group owns the seat, the group negotiates and the senator doesn’t have any role to play. Also, the Senate, especially, doesn’t have a role to play in that.

The truth is that, in the old system, if there was a rule that protected independence, it was the rule of portability.

So my supplementary question to Senator Woo is this: What would the Senate be if it were more independent and less partisan, as the ISG charter has claimed that it wants to be — how do you imagine a vision where the senator will broach privilege in their capacity to independently exert their work in the Senate?

The Hon. the Speaker informed the Senate that a message had been received from the House of Commons with Bill C-6, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2022.

(Bill read first time.)

An Hon. Senator: “Solution.”

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Leader of the Opposition): Thank you, Senator McCallum. I think your characterization of this place as “pollution” is a little harsh. I think this institution has served this country marvellously well for over 150 years, as has Parliament. As we’ve said many times, is Canada perfect? It’s a perfectly imperfect nation. But I still think it’s one of the best in the world, and in large part because of our institutions. So I won’t accept the characterization of this institution being polluted or ever having been polluted, to be honest. I thought that’s what I heard.

Hon. Mary Jane McCallum: Honourable senators, I wanted to say to everyone here that I’m not self-serving, and when I came I saw the Senate as a solution. I am accountable to the Indigenous people I represent, and I report back to them. I work with them to bring Indigenous issues to the fore.

When we decide to join a group, we are doing it blindly. If it is not a good fit, this is an unfair situation for the individual senator as well. Has this been discussed within the Selection Committee and how this will impact the unaffiliated senators? Do you understand my question? We are coming in blindly. I say, “Okay, I’ll join that group.” If it’s not a good fit, then I have to decide what I’m going to do. And because you have a choice to go to one group or to remain unaffiliated, the unaffiliated senators really don’t have any protection. So if that is a choice they have, how has the Selection Committee dealt with this to offer them help during this transition? It’s a transition until they move to a group or they decide to form another group.

The Hon. the Speaker: Pursuant to rule 3-3(1), I’m required to leave the chair until 7 p.m. unless there is leave that we continue. Accordingly, the sitting is suspended until 7 p.m.

(The sitting of the Senate was suspended.)

(The sitting of the Senate was resumed.)

(1900)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator MacDonald, seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith, for the adoption of the second report (interim) of the Committee of Selection, entitled Duration of membership on committees, presented in the Senate on December 2, 2021.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Woo, your time is just about up. Are you asking for five more minutes? I see there are more senators who would like to ask questions.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

(On motion of Senator Gold, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.)

Hon. Marilou McPhedran: Will you take a question, Senator Housakos?

Senator Kutcher: I think Senator Housakos needs a break.

The Hon. the Speaker: I’m sorry, Senator McCallum. There are other senators who wish to ask a question. I’ll come back to you if there’s time.

Senator Quinn, did you have a question?

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Duncan, do you have a question?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I am advised that all of the tablets in the chamber are identified as ZoomGal, but that honourable senators should not use the tablets in the chamber for Zoom chat. If any honourable senators are doing that, I would ask you to refrain from doing it in the future. Thank you, Senator Kutcher, for raising that point.

(At 8:52 p.m., the Senate was continued until Tuesday, December 14, 2021, at 2 p.m.)

The Hon. the Speaker: What I’m told, honourable senators, is that all of the tablets in the chamber are identified as ZoomGal but that honourable senators shouldn’t be using the chat in the chamber. Is that correct?

Senator Wells: I assure honourable senators that I am not ZoomGalUser, but it’s my understanding that debates should happen on the floor or on Zoom, not in the Zoom chat. In my experience, the Zoom chat is used when you have technical difficulties and things like that, not as part of active debate on the sidelines.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Duncan, did you have a supplementary question?

Hon. Stan Kutcher: I do. But I’m not sure, Your Honour, whether Senator Duncan had a supplementary.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Kutcher, did you wish to ask a question?

Senator Duncan: I’m just reminding Senator Housakos that it’s not Question Period. I would appreciate a short, direct answer.

Is there any way that we could form committees in a manner that would take into account all of the senators’ skills and talents and ensure our committees are representative? Is there some other method? Of course, I don’t want to do this on the floor of the chamber and micromanage the issue. Would Senator Housakos suggest, for example, that the Rules Committee study the subject?

Senator Housakos: Yes.