Senator Mercer: Thank you, Senator Tannas, for your comments. The preliminary part of my question is my usual rant at this time of the year in parliamentary life. You will hear it in December, and you’ll hear a similar rant in June: When are we going to get our act together and defeat or not debate a bill that they desperately want across the street in the House of Commons?

It’s not good to have the power to do it if you never use the power to do it. Yes, this is not the legislation to do it on because this is an important piece of legislation for Canadian workers. But, time after time, they say, “Oh, the House of Commons is leaving today. By the way, here are two bills that we must have before you can go home.” Well, guess what? We are the masters of our own fate. We can table the bill, ignore the bill, not do anything with the bill or we could defeat the bill. But, sooner or later, this chamber needs to stand up and say, “No, I’m sorry. This is June 28. We’re going home. We’ll see you in September,” and let them deal with the problem that they have created. It’s not a problem that is created by senators.

Senator Tannas — I have to get a question in here so I haven’t broken any of the rules — would you agree that we, collectively as 105 senators, need to find that moment and that piece of legislation that we will either leave on the Order Paper or defeat just to get the government’s attention — and not just the government’s attention, but the attention of all members of the House of Commons — so that we should treat each other with respect because this is not respect.

Senator Tannas: Thank you, Senator Dupuis, and you’re absolutely right. I would not want to be quoted that this bill is a shame. It is not. It is very worthy and will provide further quality to the experience of employees under federal jurisdiction. I think it will provide important leadership for other provinces to follow. What I meant is it’s an important bill, and it is a shame that it doesn’t get the value from us that it deserves and — I would say, arguably, given the rather chaotic end to the bill in the House of Commons — that it quite rightly may need. So on that, I thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

With respect to your second question on the procedure, we actually just a few days ago reintroduced something that goes toward laying down a procedure to fast track that would require transparency and require someone to stand up in a debate and say, “This is why this should be fast-tracked,” and explain to us and to Canadians why the normal processes that were thoughtfully put in place over the last 152 years need to be cut away so that we can quickly get something done. At least we would have that discussion in the open rather than at a leaders’ meeting or with arm-twisting in the chamber to do something.

So you’re quite right. That needs to be part of the reflection that we take, and we should take it again before our backs are to the wall and we are in this exact same situation again.

Senator Tannas: I think the whole thing that we need to do is try and escape — this feels very much like the days when you and I and others were part of caucuses, we accepted the whip and we didn’t ask a lot of questions. We had a job to do, and that was to push through what our colleagues on the other side needed us to push through. I think it’s an evolution that we need to go through and we need to do it purposefully.

With respect to defeating something, I hear you. Something that could be just as effective is to amend a bill after they’ve gone home, do our work, send the amendments to an empty house and then see how important it really is. That is the other thing that we may want to do is just simply restate that it doesn’t matter whether the House of Commons goes home or doesn’t go home; if we see amendments that are needed, we will do them. That may be an easier, simpler and probably more frequent case that we run into — like this one, potentially — where we could do our job without blowing up the world.

Senator Mercer: Thank you, Senator Tannas. I agree.

[Translation]

Senator Omidvar: Thank you, senator. I agree with most of what you have said. Even though I will likely vote for the bill today and I don’t believe this is the moment for brinkmanship of any kind, I think this is an appropriate time to have this discussion. No doubt — as Senator Mercer pointed out — we will see the same situation again and we will beat ourselves on the chest and say, “Here we go again.”

We have a systemic problem and the Senate needs a systemic fix to this problem. During the six years I have been in the Senate, we have discussed all kinds of problems and solutions, we tabled the Senate Modernization report, and yet we’ve made no progress.

Senator Tannas, as a result of your intervention, when we return, can we expect to see a motion from you or others — but since you’ve raised this question, a motion from you — on dealing with the systems problem, possibly in the way Senator Lankin has identified? We absolutely need a solution so that we do not again find ourselves in the situation where we are hurried, rushed and not able to do the work we are supposed to do, even though we are the unelected people. I will put that as a proviso.

Senator Tannas: First, let me say that I will take on that responsibility, and I thank you for your comments. Over the break, I will try to assemble something of a consultative process amongst those who are interested, which could result in a motion that I can put forward on behalf of whatever group that is.

I also want to thank everyone for participating in this discussion. It is painfully obvious to me that I’m sitting in the comfort of my home right now, having left Ottawa yesterday morning, while a number of senators and all the staff are working an extra day so that we can have this conversation. It requires us to do the necessary work, given what we have done at CSG to bring this to light. Thank you to all. I appreciate all the comments.

Hon. Jim Quinn: Yes, I have a question for Senator Gold.

Senator Tannas: I’m not sure that it will immediately come into force, even if we pass it today. There are regulations that need to be done to clarify things.

We are two years into this, and there have been other responses and measures put in place to afford people the ability to take time off when they have COVID and not suffer financial ruin as a result. This isn’t news; we’re not just realizing now that folks are in a situation. Further, I think any employer that is still in business has a strategy to deal with this, which is there in the short term.

That said, this bill and our current situation with COVID highlight the need for these benefits, as Senator Yussuff so eloquently spoke to. The sooner the better, obviously, but it isn’t going to be tomorrow, that’s for sure. Thank you.

Senator Tannas: Thank you, Senator Quinn. I agree. When all is said and done, one of the most important legacies of Prime Minister Trudeau will be the changes he has brought to the Senate — if we choose to seize it, accept what they mean to the Senate, and make the changes we need to make in order to do what we’re doing in the chamber, but also in our interaction with the House of Commons. I look forward to proceeding with that work with all senators.

[Translation]

Hon. Marie-Françoise Mégie: Senator Tannas, would you take a question?

[English]

Senator Mégie: Senator Tannas, with the emergence of the Omicron variant and the rise in cases of COVID-19, would you be in favour of allowing workers to have immediate access to measures that would let them stay home if they fall ill or have even mild symptoms, instead of going to work and infecting others at their workplace because they’re afraid of missing out on income? Would you agree to implement this measure to reassure them that they’re not required to go to work out of fear of not being paid? In my opinion, that is why it is urgent that we pass this bill.

I understand everything you said, and I agree that this business of forcing us to pass bills quickly on the eve of the holiday break is definitely getting to be a habit. I understand all that, and you’re right, but I would like to know what you think about the situation we’re facing today.

[English]

Hon. Vernon White: Honourable senators, I want to congratulate Senator Yussuff on sponsoring this bill and for the work he has done.

I want to be clear that the rationale behind the formulation of Bill C-3 has my support, but I want to raise a few concerns I have with the process by which we have gotten to this point, and I will offer an amendment that I believe is needed that might allow the police to act on offences under the Criminal Code of Canada that would be brought about as a result of this legislation.

Along with the other things we’ve heard about this bill, there is a piece of legislation that includes an offence with a sentence of up to 10 years in jail added to the Criminal Code of Canada. This was walked through the other place, where most, if not all, of their time was spent on the social and labour aspects of the bill. In fact, the bill was seen by the Human Resources Committee and the majority, if not all, of the review and amendments came in relation to sick days that would be provided to certain employees. On its face, that appears to be an appropriate and important social policy piece for Canadians who live and work without such coverage.

But we should ask ourselves this first: Why would two such very different pieces of legislation — sick days for employees, covered by labour law, and Criminal Code changes and serious jail time for those convicted — be put into the same legislation? It is beyond me. The truth is that there is absolutely no connection between these two important pieces of legislation.

We were asked to look at this legislation as a pre-study and, appropriately, we split the bill to ensure that our Social Affairs Committee would look at the human resources portion and the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee would pre-study the portions that were directly related to additional offences and sentencing provisions under the Criminal Code. What happened next should cause all of us to think twice the next time we are asked to do a pre-study.

I will only focus on the portions of this legislation in which I participated, since the bill as passed in the other place has never gone to any committee of the Senate. In relation to the changes under the Criminal Code and our pre-study, we met and heard from one witness, the Minister of Justice. During that meeting, the minister received many questions about the necessity of the legislation and questions regarding why the police and Crown were not using the Criminal Code interventions already available relating to intimidation, harassment, threatening, et cetera. In fact, I would hope that we could have asked those questions of the police and the Crown. In fact, after the one meeting, many stated that we could look forward to hearing from other witnesses when the bill arrived to answer questions around whether new offences were needed. Maybe we needed changes to the Criminal Code offences that are already in place to deal with the exact situations brought forward to protect health care workers and officials.

Maybe the bill is needed. Certainly, something must be done, without question, but possibly we could receive suggestions from other legal experts and those impacted by the actual events described, like health workers themselves; the police; and the Crown, which we are arguing in the legislation does not have the tools already. I do not for one minute question the importance of our health care workers and that actions must be taken to protect them. I also suggest we must do it correctly.

Regardless of the pushback that might have been received, the minister was adamant that the legislation was needed to show support for the people who are doing the health care work in our communities. That’s a good argument, but what about the legislation itself?

The minister was asked specifically about the breadth of the new offences and the coverage that would be found by expanding offences in the bill. The following exchange between Senator Simons and the minister, I would argue, clarifies the concern I have. The senator said:

And someone at their home? Because we’ve heard stories of health care workers being threatened online, protesters coming to houses, but also, more importantly, people posting their photographs and that kind of thing.

Minister Lametti answered:

It definitely applies online, and it was specifically conceived to apply to online.

The minister went on to say:

Given what I said before, if a doctor or nurse is providing health care services through their home at a clinic, say in a remote location or something like that, it would definitely, I think, be covered. If it were merely the health care provider’s residence, then probably would have to resort to . . . intimidation that is under the code.

— in other words, to the offences that already exist, this legislation wouldn’t pertain.

So the concern I have is that this new offence, while it might, in fact, be needed, does not cover the residences of health care workers and public health officials. It does not cover the specific incidents we have seen occurring across the nation in places like B.C., Saskatchewan, Ontario and, I believe, Prince Edward Island over the past months where public health officials, in particular, are intimidated, harassed and even threatened in their own homes.

While I am not convinced the legislation will provide much more than what the police already have available to them, the message might well be very important to those who would participate in such events. It is important that we tell the harassers, the intimidators and those who would threaten health care workers that the Government of Canada will do what it takes to support those workers when we can.

But should it not also be important that we are doing this in the right way?

Think about this. One witness was heard from on an extremely important area that will add a criminal offence to the penalties up to 10 years in jail. While I’m greatly concerned by the process that was followed, and I accept responsibility, as I sit on both the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee and its steering committee, for allowing it to continue that way, I would argue that we should, could and must do better. We must ensure that these bills are fully reviewed and investigated.

I was concerned during the minister’s appearance that many committee members had questions about the necessity of specific sections concerning new Criminal Code offences. I admit I was moved by the vision of health care workers being harassed and intimidated, which I have watched over the last number of months. I also believe that health care workers need to feel at least as protected by legislation when they are not at work, particularly in their homes.

There were many other areas where consideration could have been given for amendments, had we had the bill in its entirety after being passed in the House of Commons, such things as the seizure of vehicles used in a criminal offence and immediate fine systems — anything where immediacy can be acted upon in relation to offenders.

It is extremely difficult to deal with when we don’t do clause by clause, and we didn’t have the bill after it passed in the House. That is why I think it is important that this legislation clearly covers health care workers regardless of where they are. That is why I’m asking to amend this legislation.

My amendment will correct the area of weakness identified by the minister, in his own words, when he said that it would not cover serious incidents that may occur in the private residences of health care workers.

Senator White: Thank you, senator. In fact, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has in the past raised the overlapping of criminal offences — that we need to stop building on the existing Criminal Code and start building a new Criminal Code.

I’m always back to the same thing: If we believe that this will help, if you would vote for this legislation, then the amendment will make it better.

I will vote for this legislation, as much as I’m concerned about the limited amount of time, if any, that we actually gave to make it better legislation, like some immediate responses. I think if we are concerned enough to say the legislation is important, then the amendment will make it a better piece of legislation and protect health care workers. It will send a message to those people — which I think the minister is trying to do — not to show up at someone’s house, that you will be arrested, that you will be dragged off, because it is that serious.

I’m always back to the same point. I feel that this discussion of whether it’s necessary should have taken place in committee, but it didn’t. Instead, it’s taking place here in third reading.

Senator White: Absolutely.

Senator White: Always.

Senator White: Tomorrow is not Christmas. The reality is that amending this bill does not mean it does not get dealt with. As we know, everything can be done virtually. It could be done later on today or on Monday or Tuesday. There is no immediacy for us to even pass a bill, other than the fact that we have been told there is immediacy. In fact, last week the minister said that they welcomed amendments from the House and the Senate if deemed necessary for this legislation to pass. I’m arguing that if this legislation is necessary, this amendment is important.

On the first point, I haven’t looked at what other provinces have done, but if it’s in relation to the Criminal Code, unlike other jurisdictions such as Australia, we only have one; the federal one. So if we’re going to have Criminal Code offences, we have one opportunity and location and that’s here. Thank you.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I rise today to speak briefly to Senator White’s proposed amendment to Bill C-3, which the government opposes.

I would note for the record that the government carefully considered this issue during the Senate’s pre-study as it sought to proactively respond to the Senate’s concerns. But on policy grounds, the government cannot support this proposal for the following reasons.

[Translation]

I certainly agree with Senator White that we must do everything we can to protect health care workers. They have been nothing short of heroic this entire pandemic and have earned the respect and gratitude of most Canadians. Unfortunately, they have also been subjected to intimidation and abuse.

This problem has been around for a long time, but it was exacerbated and exposed by the pandemic. That is why, during the most recent election campaign, the government committed to making this bill a priority. Seeing as we are debating the bill today, the government clearly followed through.

[English]

Colleagues, it is important to note that health care workers are strongly supportive of this bill. The Canadian Nurses Association told the Social Affairs Committee that Bill C-3 “will help protect health care workers from threats and harassment” and “assist in retaining nurses in the workforce . . . .”

In a written submission, the Canadian Medical Association said it:

 . . . applauds the federal government for taking rapid action and introducing new legislation to protect health workers from threats, intimidation, and violence . . . and respectfully urges Parliament to support its enactment.

Clearly, the people this bill is meant to protect think it hits the mark.

As we have heard, Bill C-3 would create two new criminal offences. The first, intimidation, covers any attempt to provoke a state of fear in order to impede delivery or receipt of medical care. This offence would not be place specific nor time-specific. If you approach a health care worker and say, “Stop vaccinating people, or I’m going to beat you up,” you are guilty of this offence whether you do it at a hospital, private residence or grocery store, wherever. Importantly, it also applies to intimidation that occurs online.

The second offence covers interference with lawful access to a place where health services are being provided by a health professional. This doesn’t have to be just a hospital or a clinic. If health care is being provided in a private home, then it could apply there. If a vaccination clinic is being run out of a school gym, it could apply there. The key element is the provision of health services, not the place itself.

May I also point out that the law also provides considerable protection for private residences, often to a greater degree than public spaces. So depending on the activity in question, a person engaging in intimidating activity at, say, a doctor’s house could be guilty of provincial or territorial property crimes or other offences like trespassing or mischief, again depending on the circumstances.

For these reasons, while I recognize — indeed applaud — Senator White’s intent, I do not believe that the proposed amendment is necessary to achieve his aim.

Honourable senators, that is the government’s policy position, which I wanted to put on the record for your consideration.

However, I would also like to take a moment to contribute my perspective to the process, indeed, to the collaboration which has underpinned the parliamentary process that has unfolded with respect to Bill C-3.

Bill C-3 began as a government bill, but at this stage it is very much a product of all parties in the other place. In particular, I would like to recognize the contribution of Member of Parliament Tom Kmiec, whose Bill C-211 has largely been incorporated into this legislation. These new provisions deal with bereavement leave for parents after the death of a child, which is a personal matter for Mr. Kmiec whose infant daughter died tragically a few years ago. I’m glad we have been able to make this happen.

Senators, I too would have liked the Senate to have more time with this piece of legislation. I understand your concerns. I share them. Yet I do believe that Bill C-3 is also very much a product of the Senate because our pre-study had a very direct impact on the amendments that were carefully negotiated and adopted in the other place. That, colleagues, is one of the precise objectives of a Senate pre-study: to make sure that Senate concerns which surface early can be communicated, in this case through my office and through the good work of the sponsor to the minister and other colleagues in the government who listened carefully and attentively to our concerns and worked hard to answer and address those — and this in a minority Parliament where it was not simply a question of the government saying yes or no to us, but having to negotiate this with other members of other parties in the House. Negotiations, as I know all too well in this place, are never cost-free and don’t always happen overnight.

[Translation]

I want to thank the chairs of the two committees, Senator Jaffer and Senator Omidvar. Thanks to your leadership in facilitating the work, the government and I got the tools we needed to better understand the Senate’s concerns and to try to respond to them, in collaboration with all parties in the other place.

I also thank Senator Yussuff for everything he did on behalf of health care workers and all workers during our study of Bill C-3 and, really, for many years prior to that. He did a great job engaging with senators, listening and communicating senators’ concerns. The substantial amendments that have been made to the bill are a testament to his efforts.

[English]

Honourable senators, one of the government’s publicly stated priority objectives to begin the Forty-fourth Parliament has been to ensure Bill C-3 could receive Royal Assent before the Christmas break so that health care workers could feel more secure as we continue to weather this pandemic and that a modern, paid sick leave policy finally be put into place in federal legislation.

As we stare into another wave of COVID-19, with the Omicron variant spreading across this country, that objective has become more important than ever.

To achieve this goal, the government focused on consensus building and active listening, reaching out across the aisle in the other place and across the way into this chamber. As a result, even though we have received Bill C-3 in this chamber much too late in the calendar, the Senate’s fingerprints are all over it.

I know there is disagreement around the time constraints we face. I know it. Believe me, I hear you. But, honourable senators, how often is it that a bill proposing significant social policy, as well as changes to the Criminal Code, is adopted with the support of all parties, indeed, all MPs in the other place? Not only that, but how often does such a bill come to us with changes adopted unanimously by them that are so clearly reflective of the Senate’s pre-study work and ongoing interventions and communications behind the scenes with the government to transmit senators’ preoccupations?

As Government Representative, I want you to know that I’m very proud to bring this bill to this place. For all of these reasons in my view, Bill C-3, as adopted by the other place and now before us, is very much worthy of our support. Ultimately, I’m sure that we all share the desire to protect health care workers as much as we can. This bill represents significant progress in this regard. Doctors and nurses themselves support the legislation as it is, and they have asked us to pass it as it is. I encourage honourable senators to take their advice.

For that reason, this government cannot support the amendment put forward by Honourable Senator White, and I would invite you to reject the amendment as well. Thank you, colleagues.

Hon. Larry W. Campbell: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak on the amendment to Bill C-3.

Bill C-3 really is two bills. At any other time, we would be talking about an omnibus bill where we have two different subjects thrown into the same bill. In fact, for many years under the previous government, we were always complaining about omnibus bills where we get bills with a number of different issues in it. One of them is under the Labour Code to allow benefits for workers. One is under the Criminal Code. I completely support the changes to the Labour Code.

The difficulty I have is with changes to the Criminal Code. There are already provisions under the Criminal Code for the offences listed in Bill C-3, and I fail to understand how these changes to the Criminal Code will make it safer for health care workers. Instead of new offences, police and the Crown should be utilizing already existing legislation.

I ask you: Do you think that the courts would actually sentence someone to 10 years in jail for this new crime? I think not. That being said, I support Senator White’s amendment, because it will at least actually protect health care workers no matter where they are.

One of my concerns is that protest is one of the hallmarks of our democracy for unions and for different groups that want to put forward their views. Any time we limit this, we lessen our freedoms. I totally condemn the actions of a minority of Canadians who try to harass and intimidate health care workers. These people are cowards, and they should be sanctioned. But COVID should not be used to lessen the rights of people.

Perhaps as important is the manner in which the bill was received. It really doesn’t matter which government is in power — Liberal or Conservative. Three times a year we get bills at the last minute with no time to study them: Christmas, Easter and summer breaks. Over the 16 years I have been in this place, we kept hoping the role of the Senate would be recognized by the other place and that we would get bills in a timely manner so we could actually do our job. Christmas, Easter, summer — it just keeps on.

Is this democracy? Is this how the Government of Canada is supposed to govern? We talk about independence and how proud we are that we are not whipped — that we can do our job without a sword hanging over our head. Over the break, I hope that all senators will consider this problem. I look forward to hearing from Senator Tannas on how we can go about this.

I hope we can come back with actions to stop this undemocratic process on the part of the government. I wish all colleagues and staff a happy holiday season. Be safe. Thank you.

Senator Campbell: Absolutely.