Hon. Frances Lankin: Thank you, Senator White, for your contribution and your amendment.

I agree with you and your concerns about process. I don’t want to talk about that anymore. We have spent more time talking about that so far today than we have about the bill that we’re bemoaning we don’t have enough time to talk about.

Coming back to the bill and your particular amendment, as you have indicated, there is plenty of opinion out there that while these particular provisions to change the Criminal Code may bring light, attention and messages of support, security and concern to health care workers, the actual enforcement actions could have been taken under the existing Criminal Code. Then you bring forward this amendment. I understand your rationale, that if it improves it, why not?

Provinces do most of the enforcement in the jurisdiction area we are talking about. They have access to tools as well. In particular, I’m thinking of the time in Ontario when I, as health minister, and Marion Boyd, as attorney general, brought forward an attorney general’s injunction in response to the bombing of the Morgentaler Clinic and the threatening of doctors in their homes.

What research have you done to see what other provinces have done in terms of enforcement and the necessity, or not, of this? Given all the discussion we have had about perhaps finding a way to make the point on process — but this isn’t the bill for brinksmanship, which I know we are prone to say often — why would you suggest this should be the bill we send back to the House of Commons at this point in time and potentially further delay the impact of this bill, just to get support to Canadians who are in need? Thank you.

Senator Downe: Yes. I don’t want to delay the procedure, but yes, if people agree.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Downe, are you asking for five more minutes to answer a question?

Senator Gold: Will the senator take a question?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is it agreed?

Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: Honourable senators, I will enter debate on the amendment. I understand that people are expressing concerns about the process, and it’s not my intent to speak about the process. I’m going to speak to the amendment only, and I can assure honourable senators that I won’t be 15 minutes.

I would like to invite all honourable senators to take out a copy of Bill C-3. If you have it at hand, handy and close by, please use it because I’m going to read from it and it’s kind of boring, so if you have the text, it might be easier to follow. It’s technical.

Not many amendments to the Criminal Code are being proposed. There are only two substantial ones, and they are found at section 2 of the bill. The act is amending the Criminal Code by adding or creating the first infraction offence called intimidation. It’s to threaten, to bring people to fear.

The second offence created is obstruction or interference with access. This is preventing access. This is when you are picketing in front of the clinic and prevent people from walking in; it could be a clinic, a doctor’s office or anything where there are some health services provided.

We should not confuse both offences. They are two distinct offences.

Let’s go back to the first one, the one that Senator White proposed to amend. I will read to you the offence of intimidation.

Every person commits an offence who engages in any conduct with the intent to provoke a state of fear in . . .

— and then there is a list of people, essentially health professionals.

So the offence is to engage in any conduct with the intent to provoke fear. Senator Simons asked the following question:

And someone at their home? Because we’ve heard stories of health care workers being threatened online, protesters coming to houses, but also, more importantly, people posting their photographs and that kind of thing.

This is how Minister Lametti responded:

It definitely applies online, and it was specifically conceived to apply to online.

So the offence is any conduct such as the following: It could be picketing in front of your house; it could be sending you threatening letters; it could be calling you on your phone; it could be sending you emails; it could be online.

The amendment which is being proposed will make the section read as follows:

Every person commits an offence who, in any place, engages in any conduct with the intent to provoke a state of fear . . . .

So you will add an element to the offence which is being proposed. It has to be done in any place. Quite frankly, this amendment could be read as restricting the rather broad coverage which is intended by asking for a kind of material element. It should be done “in any place.” So online may no longer be considered to be covered.

I know I’m technical. I’m sorry that I’m boring when I say that, but in my previous life I spent 20 years just reading and trying to find out the meaning of words. I’m telling you we should carefully consider adding these words because I think they will restrict the intended offence that Parliament wants to create here.

I’m not speaking about the process. I am speaking about the amendment, period. I wish this amendment would have been debated at the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee. We could have debated between ourselves, but it’s never too late. It’s coming now, so I want to engage in debate just to say that, and to say I do not oppose the intent of getting better protection for health care workers, but it doesn’t fit there. If it’s included there, it will end up having the risk of defence lawyers arguing before courts that one element of the actus reus, the material element of the offence, must include “in any place.”

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That’s going to, I’m afraid, make things less workable than is being contemplated. Therefore, I will vote against the proposed amendment. Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker: In my opinion, the “nays” have it.

And two honourable senators having risen:

The Hon. the Speaker: Those opposed to the motion who are in the Senate Chamber will please say “nay.”

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

The Hon. the Speaker: I hear a “no.” Those in favour of the motion who are in the Senate Chamber will please say “yea.”

Some Hon. Senators: No.

The Hon. the Speaker: If you are opposed to the motion, please say “no.”

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Dupuis, do you want to ask a question or to speak?

Hon. Jane Cordy: Honourable senators, I would like to begin by acknowledging that I am joining you from Mi’kma’ki, the ancestral and unceded territory of the Mi’kmaq people.

We have arrived once again at the end of our sittings before the holiday break. We have been busy since our return, and the Senate has passed some critical legislation. Our committees are up and running, and many of you have brought important issues to the floor of our chamber for discussion. We’ve faced challenges but we have always risen to the occasion, and I hope that we have made the lives of Canadians better and easier by the work we do in this chamber.

I would like to thank everyone who makes our work possible during days like this. I won’t say “unprecedented times,” because after almost two years, the unprecedented times have actually become the norm. Thank you to the clerks, pages, interpreters, stenographers, Information Services Directorate, building services, the Parliamentary Protective Service and Senate Administration staff. Thank you so much for your dedication and hard work in keeping this chamber running smoothly. Without you, we would simply not be here, and never has that fact been more evident than it is now.

Thanks to you, Speaker Furey, for always leading the way with the very best in mind for the chamber and for the people who make it hum. Your concern for the safety of all staff is a true reflection of who you are as a person, and I thank you. And thank you to Senator Ringuette, who has been elected Speaker pro tempore twice in 2021.

I would like to take a moment to thank the PSG leadership team, Senators Dalphond, Bovey and Francis, and all my Progressive Senate Group colleagues for their support and collaboration this year. The PSG is a merry group of senators, and I could not be happier about how we have all come together. Our meetings are full of shared ideas and frank discussions, but also much laughter and collegiality. I look forward to the day when we can be in one room again, and enjoy all that we have built together. It is a privilege to work with each and every one of you.

I would be remiss if I did not mention The Progressives’ staff. Every PSG office, and I would say every office on the Hill, has truly excellent people in it, who work hard on behalf of their senators. Thank you so much. And to our leadership staff — Melanie, Caitlin, David, Natasha and Heather, who is on parental leave — a huge thank you for all that you do. As we all know, for the staff who work for us, whether in leadership or in senators’ offices, this is not a 9-to-5 job.

Finally, I would like to thank my fellow leaders and facilitators, Senators Gold, Plett, Housakos, Woo and Tannas. Our discussions have not always been sunshine and roses, but we manage to set aside our differences when it counts and do the best we can for the Senate and for all Canadians.

Senator Woo, as you take your leave as facilitator of the ISG, I hope that you look back fondly on your time in that role and take pride in your many accomplishments. Senator Saint-Germain, I look forward to working with you over the next year. It sure will be nice to have two women in the leadership group.

Honourable senators, in normal times we would all be heading back to our respective provinces for some rest and relaxation. For those going home, safe travels. But many of us will simply click “leave the meeting” and head to the next room. So whether travelling across the country or just walking away from the computer, on behalf of the Progressive Senate Group, I wish you all a very happy holiday season and best wishes for the new year. Stay safe, and I look forward to seeing you all again soon.

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 5-5(j), I move:

That the sitting be suspended to await the announcement of Royal Assent, to reassemble at the call of the chair with a five minute bell.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 5-5(j), I move:

That, when the Senate next adjourns after the adoption of this motion, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, February 1, 2022, at 2 p.m.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Senator Dalphond: Thank you for those very important comments, senator. You raised a fundamental question about the role of the Senate.

I would like to hear your thoughts on two subjects.

First of all, isn’t there a distinction to be made between carefully reviewing legislation, even legislation unanimously passed by the House of Commons, and respecting the House of Commons when it responds to our proposed amendments? Should the fact that a bill passed unanimously be a determining factor at the outset, when we are considering it? I’m not sure. When the other place sends back its responses to our proposals, showing deference to the elected chamber is important.

My second point is this: Shouldn’t we direct our comments not only to the government, but also sometimes to the opposition in the Senate who, in the case of the conversion therapy bill, for example, ensured that the bill passed without this chamber having a real debate at second or third reading, or even a pre‑study of the bill?

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That bill was passed in just one afternoon, without any real debate or analysis. We failed to fulfill our constitutional duty, but I don’t think we could blame the government that time.

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