Senator Boisvenu: If your government has done so much, will you finally present in this chamber a clear record of all the measures taken by the Liberal government to combat domestic violence, and in particular the improvements made to the Victims Bill of Rights over the past eight years?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, the time for Question Period has expired.

The Hon. the Speaker: In my opinion, the “yeas” have it.

And two honourable senators having risen:

Senator Lankin: I would like to thank you and Senator Gagné. The subject matter is difficult to make real and bring to life for people, particularly in speeches in the format we have in the Senate, but both of you do an excellent job. I, for one, am appreciative of that.

Senator Marshall, in particular to you, I think of you as our collective critic on these things. There may be someone else with those skills, but I don’t hear from them; I hear from you, and it helps me tremendously in my work. I want to thank you personally.

I have two questions. You talked again about a number of line items where there are large amounts of money but no particular detail. In some other cases, there is detail about line items but no particular source of the funding is identified. I would say that is something I experienced in the Ontario government when I was in cabinet and when I was in opposition. I’ve seen it in Ottawa under the Trudeau government, under the Harper government and under the Martin, Chrétien and Mulroney governments. I can’t go back further than that.

Has the Finance Committee done any kind of analysis to draw a trend line of these challenges and what they mean to parliamentarians and Canadians that they represent in terms of having in-depth knowledge and being able to refute or understand where your interests lay and are recognized in there? If that hasn’t been done, is that something that would be a worthwhile project for the Finance Committee to do?

An Hon. Senator: Fifteen minutes.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Call in the senators. The vote will occur at 4:35 p.m.

Motion agreed to and bill read third time and passed on the following division:

The Hon. the Speaker: Do we have agreement on a bell?

Senator Marshall: Yes, please.

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All those in favour of the motion will please say “yea.”

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All those opposed to the motion, please say “nay.”

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?

Senator Marshall: Like I say, the government will cherry-pick. The net debt takes into consideration the assets of the Canada Pension Plan and, I think, the Quebec Pension Plan.

I think there is room there. The government can move numbers around to make it look best. I would go with the gross debt. However, I have to say, senator, that I would look at a number of indicators. I think you mentioned, “of the G7.” Well, that’s only a few countries. There are a lot of other high-income countries that we could compare ourselves to.

(1600)

Yes, the government always cherry-picks, and we need to use our own minds and come up with our own conclusions.

The Hon. the Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will please say “yea.”

Senator Downe: Yes, obviously, we have the same reading list because I read that report as well. In regard to those reports — colleagues should understand this — the government made a commitment in the last election on the tax gap, and the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, is, in my opinion, very slowly doing piecemeal work; that was on the underground economy. They have done a couple of others. What we need is an overall tax gap analysis.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer has requested data from the CRA — not individual names of any Canadians, but just the raw data — and he can estimate an independent tax gap analysis. The CRA has refused to provide that information, and we know, for a host of reasons, that the information provided by the CRA on a number of things has been wrong.

My question is as follows: Is the Finance Committee questioning the CRA as to why they are not cooperating with the Parliamentary Budget Officer — who has asked for that information so that he can tell all Canadians what the real tax gap is?