Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Senator, thank you for the question. I entirely share your concern around what could be a very significant and innovative support for some of the most vulnerable Canadians, those living with disabilities.

When my cabinet colleague, Minister Qualtrough, whom you referenced, talks at caucus and our full cabinet meetings and paints the economic and social circumstances of many of these people that require this additional support, it behooves all of us — and I applaud the work that this chamber is doing as well — to think of the ways that we can best support those people. This is a significant step in the right direction, but it would be, as you noted, perverse if at the same time provinces and territories either reduced their own support or replaced what we’re hoping is incremental federal support by a corresponding reduction in provincial supports.

To your specific question of whether I have been involved with Ms. Qualtrough, the answer is yes. In discussions with our cabinet colleagues, including the Minister of Finance, have we talked about instruments where we could encourage the provinces — compel, of course, would be a mean word — to join us in that effort of better supporting these people? I’m encouraged by those conversations, including conversations with big provinces like Ontario and other provinces. I think we’ll get to the right place, but you’re right, we need to remain very much focused on this.

[Translation]

Hon. Judith G. Seidman: Welcome, minister. As I’m sure you know, we are in the process of studying Bill C-22, the Canada disability benefit act, at committee. We have heard from many stakeholders who are concerned that once Canadians begin receiving this benefit, the provinces and territories will decrease their existing disability benefits and supports.

Minister Qualtrough told our committee:

There are different eligibility criteria in every province and territory. There are different definitions of disability, different treatments of other income, different reduction rates, etc.

I’m asking you, as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, have you been involved in talks with the provinces and territories regarding the Canada disability benefit? Is there a way to ensure that there will be provincial and territorial collaboration, that they will sign on quickly and, importantly, with no clawbacks? Thank you.

Hon. Rose-May Poirier: Good morning, minister. Welcome to the Senate, and thank you for being with us this afternoon.

My question is about the situation at the Bathurst Regional Airport.

As you know, the Bathurst airport is in danger of closing if it doesn’t receive approximately $1 million in funding. Before the pandemic, the Bathurst airport was doing well and had ambitious plans for the future, but since then it has been fighting for survival.

This airport is an economic engine for the region. It is critical that the Bathurst airport remain open for northern New Brunswick.

As Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities, and given that you are from New Brunswick, can you tell us whether the federal government intends to help the Bathurst airport before it is too late?

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Senator Cordy, thank you for the question and your understandable and reasonable concern around those vacancies. As an Atlantic Canadian, I share your view of the importance of our region, but it’s true of other regions. I totally share your analysis of the terms of Confederation and the role that this chamber plays in balancing out an increasing trend in the House in which I sit for the populous provinces and regions. This is an example, senator, where we need to move expeditiously.

As I say, I am confident that in the coming weeks, maybe in the coming days, you will have the good news of some exciting colleagues that will join you here. In conversations that I have had, I’m enthusiastic about the quality of women and men who want to serve with all of you in the Senate who apply through a transparent application process that many of you went through yourselves. My understanding from the officials at the Privy Council Office that run this process is that we’re victims of our own success in some cases, Senator Cordy. In my province, there were dozens and dozens of very qualified people that came forward asking for an opportunity to serve.

We have been slower than we should have been, and need to be, to properly receive the advice of these advisory groups, but the good news is that I think we’re getting near the end of that process, and good news is coming very quickly.

Hon. Jane Cordy: Thank you, minister, for being with us today. My question is a follow-up to that of Senator Cormier’s. Minister, the founding principle of Confederation was based on proper representation for all regions in government. Representation by population in the House of Commons was balanced by regional representation in the Senate of Canada. In fact, minister, historians have said that without regional representation in the Senate, Confederation would not have occurred in 1867. Unfortunately, we have seen those principles being increasingly ignored over the last six years. We now have a Senate with 16 empty seats, with two more in the next few weeks.

I’m going to ask you today about the Atlantic region. Minister, three Senate seats in New Brunswick are vacant, which means 30% of New Brunswick’s seats are vacant. Three seats are empty in Nova Scotia, which means a 30% vacancy in Nova Scotia. Prince Edward Island is missing 50% of their representation, two out of four. And one third of Newfoundland and Labrador’s seats will be vacant within the next few weeks. That means that one in every three Atlantic seats in the Senate will be vacant, some for more than three years.

Minister, when will the Prime Minister restore regional representation in the Senate and fill those vacant seats? This would not be acceptable in the House of Commons, and it should not be acceptable in the Senate.

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Thank you for the question, senator. I’m glad to see you in fine form here with us today.

I can assure you that we are well aware of the economic importance of the Bathurst airport. My colleague, MP Serge Cormier, often talks to us about it. I had discussions with him and my colleague, Minister Ginette Petitpas Taylor, on this subject a few weeks ago.

As you know, during the COVID-19 pandemic, our government was very generous with regard to airports, as it should have been and as it had to be in order to ensure that this essential infrastructure was still able to operate once the pandemic was behind us.

We are facing challenges when it comes to air services in our region. I’m no economist, but I believe that that is partly due to the pandemic and partly due to the decline in the regional service offering by a number of airlines.

I met one of the vice-presidents of Air Canada recently at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. This is a major challenge in every region of Canada, both in the regions of Quebec and in our region. Yes, we are trying to work with the Bathurst Regional Airport so that we don’t lose this infrastructure, but the problem is twofold because we need to revamp the airport and find a way to encourage airlines to use the airport space that is available. There’s no use in keeping the airport open if there are no airlines there providing services.

We’ll continue to do what is necessary to keep the airport operational.

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Thank you for the question, Senator Quinn, and for the work you do in the Senate for our province. You’ve correctly identified this infrastructure project as a national priority. Some months ago, I began a conversation offering a 50% contribution, potentially through a disaster mitigation and adaptation fund at the Department of Infrastructure. It shouldn’t surprise you that the premiers came back and say we’d like 100%.

To your colleague’s question about federal-provincial jurisdictional issues, the provinces don’t hesitate to quickly send a bill to Ottawa. COVID has given them an opportunity to continue to expect the federal government — some of these provinces, by the way, including ours, criticize the Government of Canada for having a deficit, but at the same time they are running surpluses and continue to send us bills. I think we need to have some coherence in how we manage the fiscal realities of the Government of Canada and our provincial and territorial partners. These provincial governments benefit from huge surpluses at a time when the federal government is running multi‑billion-dollar deficits. I think a 50% contribution to what is also a municipal infrastructure challenge for the cities of Sackville, New Brunswick and Amherst, Nova Scotia, I am confident that we can recognize a way to do it.

I replied to the provinces that their example of the Confederation Bridge wasn’t a good one. But senator, I will look further into your declaratory power. I think that is an interesting angle, which I, frankly, hadn’t thought of. I will ask the Department of Justice to help me look into that.

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: I don’t want to pretend that the health agreements that we just negotiated with the provinces are somehow going to be put into the balance as we seek to collaborate with provinces, as I said in response to your colleague, on a way to support some of the most vulnerable people in the country. I obviously took note of what some jurisdictions have done in their own social services envelopes across the country at a time when people very much needed that help.

We remain optimistic. Certainly, my colleague Carla Qualtrough has funding envelopes for training, for example. The Government of Canada transfers billions of dollars to provinces in training money. It’s an active measure. I think it’s largely from the EI account, but that’s one vehicle where we support provincial and territorial governments in workforce development.

There are so many ways we have to collaborate with the provinces. I don’t foresee us finding ourselves in a situation where a provincial government would want to, in a perverse way, diminish this help that I hope the Parliament of Canada will want to extend to these vulnerable people. We’re starting from a positive, optimistic posture, but we’re not naive that we may need the right tools at the right time. I’m encouraged, at least initially, by this desire of the provinces to partner with us, and we’ll try and maintain that goodwill.

Hon. Jim Quinn: Minister LeBlanc, unlike Ontario and Quebec, New Brunswick has an unequal responsibility for the upkeep of international bridges that fall under federal jurisdiction. New Brunswick bears 100% of the costs for all 10 international bridges in the province, and New Brunswick has more international bridges than any other province.

In 1990, the federal government transferred the ownership and maintenance of five of those bridges between Maine and New Brunswick to the Government of New Brunswick, who also received a one-time payment of $5 million. In hindsight, this was a very bad deal for the province, but as we all know, bad deals have been undone and changed by governments in the past.

To put things in perspective, Ontario and Quebec combined have responsibility for only 3 of their 16 international bridges. Today, the federal government is paying 100% of the cost for both the Canadian and American portions of the Windsor Gordie Howe International Bridge.

As a fellow New Brunswicker, do you not agree that federal support for New Brunswick’s international bridges should be reassessed as a matter of fairness?

Hon. Frances Lankin: Welcome, minister. I’m going to follow up on Senator Seidman’s question about Bill C-22, the Canada disability benefit act, and ask you to perhaps expand a little bit on the comment that you made. You said to compel the provinces — we’re talking about not clawing back — would be mean.

Now, I know you’re playing with the words a little bit there and we want to look to federal-provincial cooperation, but I will tell you what was mean. In the province I represent, Ontario, when I was a member of the Ontario legislature and I saw a particular government cut social assistance rates by over 20%, bringing people below poverty lines, that was mean. I’ve seen a range of clawbacks put in place, taken out of place and put back in place in provinces and territories across this country.

This is a real area of concern. If we shift to federal payments only to see them clawed back at the provincial level, the people we’re trying to help are not moving ahead. I wonder if there is more, then, gentle suasion. Do you have the power under the health transfers, for example, to make it a condition —

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Thank you again, Senator Quinn, for a thoughtful question that is important for our province of New Brunswick. My department has responsibility for the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority in the construction of that megaproject, the Gordie Howe International Bridge. That project has run into some considerable headwind. I believe it may soon be an example of a successful international undertaking, but the scale of that megaproject is much different than these bridges that you’re referring to in our province.

I take note that in 1990, it was the McKenna provincial government with the federal government of the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney who made that decision. We have seen that across the board in small-craft harbours. The federal government, including the successor Liberal government — Doug Young from our province — made a virtue of downloading a bunch of public infrastructure on community groups and local authorities, with what seemed at the time like a significant amount of money. Then — surprise, surprise — 30 years later, as you know, Senator Quinn, from your experience as a senior public servant running the Port of Saint John, these expenses are not predictable into the future.

I haven’t received a request from the Government of New Brunswick yet. By saying that, I’m quite sure that Premier Higgs will quickly send me a letter. He’s never shy to send a letter to the Government of Canada identifying ways that we can spend federal money in the province of New Brunswick.

I would look at that. As I said, I hadn’t reflected on it, other than to take note of the larger examples you gave, but for decades it’s been a tendency across the board for successive governments to leave smaller orders of government with what had traditionally been federal assets and federal responsibilities.

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Mr. LeBlanc, you are the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities and therefore Quebec City’s third link project concerns you directly.

The Government of Quebec has just announced that it is abandoning the idea of a road link in favour of a tunnel for public transit only. We still know little about this project: We don’t know the route, the mode of transportation, the volume of traffic or the cost estimates. To be frank, we don’t even know if Coalition avenir Québec is going to move forward on this.

I know it is impossible for you to say whether the federal government will finance this hypothetical project, but could you indicate what criteria will be used by your government? Specifically, how will the issue of social licence be evaluated?

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Thank you for the question, senator. I appreciate your description of the various versions of a project that has existed only theoretically for several years now. There’s no doubt that the Quebec government’s recently announced decision to move towards a project that is limited to public transit offers potential opportunities for federal funding that would not be so readily available if it were a provincial highway extension.

As you said, no specific project has been presented. The environmental impact needs to be studied. This is a megaproject from a financial standpoint. My colleagues from Quebec City often talk about this in caucus and in cabinet, in the case of Mr. Duclos.

We will wait and see whether a project is ultimately presented, and we will ensure, as you correctly pointed out, that social licence is assessed, both at the municipal level and at the provincial level.

However, I must point out that our collaboration with the Quebec government on these types of projects is very encouraging, whether it is the Quebec City tramway or the pink metro line in Montreal. There has been a great deal of collaboration and a lot of discussion about priorities.

[English]

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Senator Bernard, thank you for a very thoughtful question, the premise of which I share entirely.

Our process has, I hope, encouraged a wide variety of Canadians to think that they can serve honourably in this chamber, including those that represent historically under‑represented communities in this very place. And that’s part of a larger societal effort across the country to be more inclusive and to recognize that institutions evolve and have not always accommodated the kinds of people that we would seek to serve in our country.

Your service is an example, and it should only be the beginning of a greater effort. I totally share the premise of your question. I am confident, as an Acadian myself, that I understand the importance the Acadian community in Nova Scotia having representation in this place. Senator Comeau, whom I liked very much, served honourably and did a great job for the people of Nova Scotia and francophones when he served here. I’m hoping that is the kind of good news that may be coming to this chamber soon.

I also take your comments around other areas where we can encourage a greater representation. I will certainly share those with the Prime Minister. You will understand that we don’t direct the independent advisory groups, other than to set the broad parameters, exactly as you articulated so well, senator.

Hon. David Richards: Thank you for being here, minister.

I first want to mention that my wife and I were fortunate enough to have dinner with your father at Rideau Hall the night I was awarded the Governor General’s Literary Award for Non‑fiction, about fishing on the Miramichi, long considered, of course, the greatest Atlantic salmon river in the world, and I will always remember the graciousness and absolute kindness of your dad.

Unfortunately, the river I wrote about no longer exists, and there are a few reasons for this: one is the horrid increase of predatory striped bass that are devastating our young salmon at the mouth of the northwest Miramichi, and the uncontrolled seal population at the mouth of the Miramichi Bay, off Escuminac or Neguac. Painfully worse, there is an almost glib disregard for this by both our subsequent fisheries ministers from both parties at our Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO.

This is not just a local irritation but one that should have raised some real national concern. I have pleaded for six years for definitive action to be taken in order to control the striped bass population, even a culling of seals, and preserve our salmon and an entire way of life for our fishermen and our Indigenous people.

I urge you, while there is still time, to take up this cause, and, if you do, I will award you the title of honorary Miramichier, sir.

Hon. Yonah Martin (Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Minister, over the years I’ve asked a number of questions about the Canada Infrastructure Bank. In a Senate Question Period in February, I asked about the secrecy surrounding its mandated five-year review, which you are currently leading. According to documents obtained through Access to Information by the Canadian Union of Public Employees, your review began behind closed doors in June of 2022. Since then, there has been very little information given on the process being followed or about the public engagement undertaken.

Minister, how long was the public consultation period that ended March 31? Did it start on March 13, which was the only date your department tweeted about? If it started earlier, why wasn’t it more widely promoted? As well, will the contracts awarded by the bank to the consulting firm McKinsey & Company be part of your review?

I didn’t receive answers in February, so I’m hoping you will give us answers today. Thank you.

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Senator Kutcher, thank you for the question, and thank you for the extraordinary work that you have done as a clinician, as a professor and as an advocate in the whole area of mental health, mental wellness and addictions. In our region, you are an iconic figure in that work, and your presence here speaks to the importance, I think, that all Canadians share in terms of the precise issues you mentioned.

In terms of the Government of Canada’s support for municipalities, this year alone, we’re transferring almost unconditionally $2.4 billion of what had previously been referred to as the gas tax. It’s now no longer linked to the excise tax on fuel. It’s a transfer from the Consolidated Revenue Fund. That is just one example.

In my discussions with the former mayor of Toronto, I think it represents between $400 million and $500 million for the City of Toronto. I want to double-check that I am giving you an accurate number. That is just one example where the Government of Canada directly partners with municipal governments.

You will understand that provinces are also jealous of their relationship with municipalities that are not a constitutional order of government but that are created by provincial statutes. Some provinces are a little more sensitive than others on that issue.

The ability of the Government of Canada to directly fund a social service in a city is complicated. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t partner with provinces, particularly around the issues of refugees, of people who come and use up municipal services in a way that might properly be a federal responsibility. I know your work with my colleague Dr. Carolyn Bennett on the mental health and addictions file tells me that we also have good news coming, senator, with respect to those priorities as well.

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc, P.C., M.P., Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities: Senator, thank you for the question.

You’re right that the legislated review of the Canada Infrastructure Bank after five years was properly mandated by the legislation that created the bank. It did not mandate a wide public review. It was a review that Infrastructure Canada was to undertake. It is one that, from my regular updates, has been extensive and has included interactions — and I’m going by memory, because I don’t have the notes in front of me, but it was something that we talked about with the Deputy Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank and the chair very recently.

I will be tabling in Parliament the results of that review by the end of June. I will find for you, senator, the precise dates in terms of when the public consultation began. We have received dozens and dozens of submissions from provincial authorities, municipal authorities and institutional pension funds, for example.

I’m encouraged by what I have been told the uptake has been so far, but I will ensure that you have the precise details of when those windows opened and how people were able to access it. I think within less than two months you will have a very transparent and, I think, thoughtful review based on the information that we have received and that, of course, we would share with parliamentarians and look forward to discussing at the appropriate committees, either of this chamber or in the other house.

Hon. Stan Kutcher: Welcome, minister. I am asking this question on behalf of Senator Moodie, who is ill and not able to be with us today.

Minister, your mandate letter acknowledges the need to ensure municipal priorities are reflected in the federal agenda. Indeed, municipalities play an important role in ensuring that Canadians have access to crucial services and a good quality of life.

Minister LeBlanc, what is the Government of Canada willing to do to support large municipalities — like Senator Moodie’s hometown of Toronto — who are currently under the strain of providing key services without the resources to do so? Specifically, she would refer to social services, of which they are in dire need, such as mental health and addictions care.