Senator Plett: Of course, did both the Subcommittee on Senate Estimates and, subsequently, the Internal Economy Committee approve and endorse this trip?

Senator Black: You are correct. Thank you for the question.

[Translation]

Senator Dupuis: What is the reason for this amendment and why are you moving it today?

[English]

Senator Black: My understanding is that all reports have to be approved by the Senate.

Senator Moncion: Agreed; I might not have been clear in my question.

Is there automatic approval? Since it is a travelling expense, does the Senate have the privilege of voting against the report at the end of all this?

Senator Black: Absolutely.

Senator Moncion: My question is about our role in the Senate. Although it has been approved by four different committees, does it necessarily have to be approved by the Senate?

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. As I suggested in my response, it is clear that given the magnitude of the fires you describe, Canadians need more resources to respond to these environmental disasters. Again, I will share your suggestion with the government.

[English]

Senator Plett: I did have a question, although between Senator Black and Senator Omidvar, they took care of it.

I wanted to say, for the record, that when we were the government a few years ago in the good old days, former senator Joan Fraser was in opposition. Senator Fraser never let one of these committee trips happen without her asking a question. Her question was usually very similar to what Senator Black’s was. Since you have already answered it, I will just leave it at that, Your Honour. I certainly encourage you and wish you well.

Senator Omidvar: Thank you.

Senator Black: I would never turn down a question from you.

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gold, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson:

That, in relation to Bill S-5, An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999, to make related amendments to the Food and Drugs Act and to repeal the Perfluorooctane Sulfonate Virtual Elimination Act, the Senate agree to the amendments made by the House of Commons; and

That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that house accordingly.

Senator Black: Thank you for your question. Yes, in fact, it has been approved. Let’s be clear: It’s been approved by the steering committee of the Agriculture and Forestry Committee, then approved by the Agriculture and Forestry Committee itself, by the Subcommittee on Senate Estimates and by the Internal Economy Committee.

Senator Dagenais: I have a supplementary question. Forest fires are burning in the Maritimes, British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec. France is half the size of Ontario. Canada is 1,700 times bigger than France, but France, I would remind you, has 197,000 volunteer firefighters. I think it is going to take more than a carbon tax to save the environment. Your Prime Minister urgently needs to have a national vision when it comes to disasters.

Senator Dagenais: I have a supplementary question. Forest fires are burning in the Maritimes, British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec. France is half the size of Ontario. Canada is 1,700 times bigger than France, but France, I would remind you, has 197,000 volunteer firefighters. I think it is going to take more than a carbon tax to save the environment. Your Prime Minister urgently needs to have a national vision when it comes to disasters.

Do you honestly believe that Canada has the equipment it needs to fight the forest fires that are plaguing the country?

Senator Omidvar: Thank you for your answer, Senator Gold. I think it is inevitable to expect that some members of this community will look to Canada for refuge, and I’m wondering if the Government of Canada will consider a special refugee program that goes beyond the existing numbers of the current immigration plan. Otherwise, we’re just shuffling one lot of refugees with another lot of refugees. Will the Government of Canada consider a special program that goes beyond the 400,000 cap?

Senator Omidvar: Thank you for your answer, Senator Gold. I think it is inevitable to expect that some members of this community will look to Canada for refuge, and I’m wondering if the Government of Canada will consider a special refugee program that goes beyond the existing numbers of the current immigration plan. Otherwise, we’re just shuffling one lot of refugees with another lot of refugees. Will the Government of Canada consider a special program that goes beyond the 400,000 cap?

Senator Cardozo: Thank you for your speech, Senator Martin. I think it is an important bill and an important issue. I note you indicated Budget 2022 had included a Labour Mobility Deduction with a limit of $4,000. As I understand what you are saying is this bill will simply remove that limit.

It is important for us to understand this is one group of workers who do travel and, like others, are not able to deduct the expenses that they incur. I think you have indicated quite wisely, with our need for 350,000 workers over the next few years, we need to make this industry as welcoming and hospitable as possible for the workers we need.

And, of course, it relates to everything, like housing. If we want more housing, we need more people to be working there.

You indicated it would help the Treasury with $347 million in terms of increased tax revenue. Do you have any sense how much it would cost the Treasury to have an unlimited number as opposed to $4,000? I’m somewhat familiar with this issue and I understand they did $4,000 at the start to have a sense of how much it was going to cost. If it becomes unlimited, do we have a sense of how much it would cost the Treasury? Do you know whether any provinces have programs of this kind?

Senator Omidvar: The time is late, I understand. I have a brief question. Canada is not the only country where three orders of government fight for power, resources and stability. I can think of Germany, for instance, and I can think of the United States. Does any country do it worse than us?

Senator Black: Thank you. I will point out the reason Charlottetown is so busy at that time is because there is a significant agricultural conference happening that same week, bringing people in from Europe and across Canada.

My question to you is: Will you make every effort to expend public funds wisely?

Senator Omidvar: Of course.

Senator Kutcher: With all due respect, Senator Gold, the Canada Excellence Research Chairs program is not funding post-doctoral students, master’s students and PhD students. Given the importance of keeping these positions in Canada, and the fact that these positions are well below the current poverty line — so we have our best and brightest people struggling below the poverty line — will the government reconsider what it overlooked in the 2023 budget, and increase funding to these valuable contributors to the Canadian economy in the fall economic update?

Senator Kutcher: With all due respect, Senator Gold, the Canada Excellence Research Chairs program is not funding post-doctoral students, master’s students and PhD students. Given the importance of keeping these positions in Canada, and the fact that these positions are well below the current poverty line — so we have our best and brightest people struggling below the poverty line — will the government reconsider what it overlooked in the 2023 budget, and increase funding to these valuable contributors to the Canadian economy in the fall economic update?

Senator Gold: Thank you, Your Honour. The government’s investments in our economy, and in our social safety net in partnership with the provinces and territories, are a necessary and important part of maintaining and strengthening the fabric of this country. All parties should appreciate that these measures are necessary for Canadians to weather the challenges that they’re facing, whether it’s economic challenges or challenges in accessing social services. This government is doing its part in partnership with the provinces and territories in order to make life better for Canadians.