Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. I certainly will bring these to the attention of the minister. I can also tell you that I have the personal experience to which you refer of someone who on approximately the same timeline is still waiting for resolution. I understand these things take time and I understand the frustration and difficulty that the delays or the times imposed. The government is working as hard as it can to address them.

Senator Gold: Decisions were made in the past and are being made today about what images appear on our passport. The images that you mentioned are important, but there were many others that were invisible in the previous design. The decision was made to ensure that the passport better reflects Canada, and not just one image in particular. The government understands that there has been grumbling in some circles. Let’s not forget, however, that when the last passport was put in place with the images you described, there was also discontent because some people didn’t see themselves in those images. There will always be differences of opinion on the symbols used. The government made a choice and followed the rules to ensure that the passport is more inclusive and better reflects our country’s diversity.

[English]

Senator Gold: Again, I certainly understand and respect the question. I will certainly bring this to the attention of the relevant minister.

[Translation]

Senator Housakos: Yes, we’re all very well aware of Liberal action. It’s called public relations exercises by calling grocers here to Ottawa and basically saying, “The burden to solve the problem is on you,” because of the incompetence of your government. This is the same government that six years ago promised in their electoral program to get rid of a GST on the construction of rental housing in this country — six years ago. Talk about always trying to catch up to the curve.

The truth of the matter is that when you’re putting in place a carbon tax, which is going to be punishing middle-class and working-class Canadians who are trying to heat their homes, put shoes on their children’s feet and drive their children to school, that’s a tax that is directly causing inflation and is directly causing a growth in the cost of living, and your government is doing nothing. All you have to do is put a pause on that tax.

I know you love taking money out of people’s pockets as a government, but put a pause on that tax so that Canadians can have a break.

Senator Francis: Senator Gold, First Nations women and their descendants have fought for decades in the courts to address sex discrimination, and we deserve redress for the harms that continue to be perpetrated. If the Government of Canada is truly committed to reconciliation, it is beyond time it removes all outstanding inequities in the Indian Act. Anything less is unacceptable, and I welcome a detailed update on what progress, if any, will be made in 2023.

Senator Gold: The extension of the loan repayment to Canadians is an example of this government being sensitive to the fact that though the payments were necessary for many thousands of businesses and, indeed, critical in helping our economy weather this storm, circumstances have made it difficult for many to repay it. That is why the government is extending the time in order to give companies a longer period of time to repay and take advantage of the benefits that the program provides.

Hon. Diane Bellemare: Colleagues, I rise today to pay tribute to Étienne Gabrysz-Forget, whom some of you will remember as being part of the Senate family, since he was my parliamentary adviser from 2014 to 2016. He took his own life on April 21, just before his thirty-third birthday. A lawyer by training who specialized in litigation, he had a bright and promising future ahead of him. At the time of his passing, he was working for the Morency law firm. He always sought justice and wanted to become a judge. He supported me very well in my work as a senator.

He was the one who conducted the statistical research that can be found on my website regarding senates around the world. We were trying to better understand the unique nature of the Canadian Senate in relation to other senates around the world.

He encouraged me when I decided to become an independent senator, and later when I agreed to join Senator Harder in the Office of the Government Representative in the Senate. He also left his mark on today’s Senate by proposing a new title for the Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate, namely the Legislative Deputy, which is now in the Parliament of Canada Act.

Étienne was a mischievous, sociable soul who loved to laugh. He talked to everyone and was very quick-witted. One morning, he decided, without telling me, to talk about Senate reform with the Minister of Democratic Reform at the time, none other than the current Leader of the Opposition, Pierre Poilievre, and it did not go as well as he thought it would. Étienne also liked to have his picture taken with the Speaker of the Senate, Pierre Claude Nolin.

Under his refined, well-dressed exterior, Étienne was a complex being. He was trying to find his way. His spirts were low, but I never ever would have thought that he would resort to such an irreversible act. However, as senators know, mental health problems can sometimes manifest suddenly and without warning. Temporary problems can lead to lasting consequences.

We will never know what he was thinking when he did what he did, but what we do know is that he knew he was having an unbearable anxiety attack and that he went to the hospital to stop himself from committing suicide. Unfortunately, the staff there did not feel it was necessary to keep an eye on him and sent him home. Even specialists have a hard time truly grasping mental health issues because they are so intangible. What a waste.

Colleagues, we take care of our physical health by having our blood pressure taken, getting blood tests and watching our weight, but we also need to take care of our mental health and that of our loved ones.

Étienne, there were so many people at your funeral. It was incredible, and yet you felt alone. Many of us are thinking of you and hold you close in our thoughts.

Étienne leaves behind his mother, Marguerite Gabrysz, his sister, Fanny, her partner, Guillaume and his young nephew, Adrien, whom he never met since the child was born just weeks after his death, as well as his uncles, aunts and many friends.

Rest in peace. Thank you.

[English]

Senator Marshall: My supplementary question relates to — again — the lack of financial information. It’s just not available. When I asked you the question in May or June, I mentioned that there is an air of secrecy over some of this information. At the time, you took offence and didn’t agree with me.

Even the simplest of information isn’t being provided. This is information that, historically, the government has been free to provide to us in committee. I find that the door is now being shut on even the most basic information.

I’ll give you an example. In June, I asked Department of Finance officials for the consolidated debt of the government. That would be the central government plus all its Crown corporations. In the past, they have always provided me with the number or would later send it as a follow-up. Now I can’t get that number.

The strange thing about this is that I could get the number myself, but I’d have to go through about 12 different financial documents and add up the numbers. It would take me a day to do it. I don’t understand why the government is so secretive over very basic financial information.

You continually talk about transparency, but when you talk about the government being transparent, I always think about the difficulty I’m having in getting basic financial information.

My question is the same as the last time: Why is the government so secretive about basic information that, though I can’t say is readily available, you could find if you put a day’s effort into it? Can you answer that question? Can you explain it?

Senator Batters: The Department of Justice actually would have this information, or absolutely should have this information, as they draft such a bill, because all we’re looking at are the types of offences and the number of years that an offence would potentially be subject to. If you don’t know the answer, that’s fine, but can you please get us the answer as soon as possible, particularly as you are looking for very quick passage? You are the Senate sponsor of this bill and the government leader in the Senate.

The Department of Justice absolutely would have done such an assessment to determine how many potential offences this type of bill would cover. Could you please get us that information as soon as possible?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question and your comment.

I have confidence in the Senate. I have confidence in the committee that it will develop a work plan that is appropriate to the bill — its content, the issues it raises and its importance. I’m confident that the Senate will strike the appropriate balance as we have always done — at least in this era — balancing the importance of the bill and the support for the bill from those who are seized with the responsibility of living with it — Indigenous and other communities, and provinces and territories — and the need for us to do our constitutional job of providing proper, critical review of legislation before us. That is what is before us, and I have every confidence we will do the job Canadians expect us to do.

[Translation]

Hon. Percy E. Downe: Honourable senators, I would like to thank the senators who have added their signatures in support of our efforts to have the U.K. government correct the appalling situation where recipients of the U.K. State Pension in Canada are receiving pensions of declining value because they are not indexed. U.K. State Pension recipients in the United States and a host of other countries — Turkey, Iceland, Philippines, this list goes on — receive indexed pensions, but not in Canada.

Given the high inflation in our country, some of these pensioners are now living in poverty and therefore must be supported by the Canadian government through the Guaranteed Income Supplement rather than pensions into which they contributed in the United Kingdom.

Colleagues, over 120,000 U.K. citizens living in Canada are collecting non-indexed British state pensions, and our Canadian economy is losing over $450 million in spending power because of the U.K. government.

As a reminder, Canada indexes the Canada Pension Plan, or CPP, regardless of where in the world the recipient lives. As the U.K. government now tries to negotiate a free trade deal with Canada, this would be a great opportunity for the United Kingdom government to show goodwill by removing this irritant between our countries and treating their citizens in a fair and compassionate manner. Thank you, colleagues.

Senator Gold: Every bill is different, raises different issues and requires different points of view to be properly brought to bear on it. So I don’t know what is typical for a very short bill like this, the principles of which — I hope to your satisfaction — I have certainly outlined accurately. The government has made a policy choice, in consultation, not only with all provincial governments but with other stakeholders, to make some additional changes to the existing bail reform system, which already contains measures and reverse-onus provisions for serious crimes. This simply adds to — and, in some senses, perfects or completes — some of the work that was already done by us in the chamber with the bills, which I mentioned, in 2019.

I am confident that the committee will hear from the necessary witnesses and that all points of view will be properly canvassed. Senators will have the opportunity to question not only the minister and the officials, but also those who have different points of view. I have every confidence that our debate in the chamber will be as robust as we choose for it to be.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. It’s a fair question. I think that’s a question that should be explored at committee and posed to the officials as to why specific mention was made not just simply of Parliament but of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in the House of Commons, which is typically the place in the other place that deals with these matters.

Senator Gold: At the risk of repeating myself, it’s up to the committee to decide how to proceed with this bill.

I wear two hats: one as a parent and the other as the Government Representative. I also have some suggestions when it comes to witnesses, like the other committee members I’m sure. As I already said to Senator Downe, we need to take our time, given the issues raised. Yes, it’s always interesting and important to consult committee evidence from the other place from time to time. However, in my experience of nearly seven years in the Senate, it isn’t often that we say that they’ve done good work and there isn’t much left to do. The same witnesses appear regularly before our committees with the same briefs; the same questions are asked and the same answers are given.

For me, it’s not simply a question of saying they didn’t conduct a study. They made their decision, and it’s their prerogative to do so. We have a job to do, and I prefer to focus on the need to study this bill properly, regardless of what happened in the other place. Again, I’m confident we will do the job right. This bill is rather short, but that doesn’t make it any less important. It’s not a quantitative issue, nor is it new. There’s already case law on reverse onus. The courts have provided us with certain criteria. We have a responsibility not only to study the bill properly, but also to respect the parameters of our role in making constitutional public policy choices, with the support of all the provinces and territories. We have to find the right balance. Once again, I have full confidence in the House, and I believe that the committee is in a good position to study the bill.

[English]

Hon. Elizabeth Marshall: My question is also for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. Senator Gold, I have asked numerous questions in this chamber and also in committee, looking for basic financial information but getting no answers. In June, I asked you if the subsidies for the battery plants were included in Budget 2023, but I have yet to receive an answer. Then, in May or June, I asked the Minister of Finance for the revised interest costs on the debt because the Bank of Canada has raised interest rates several times. The figure in the budget is $43.9 billion, but it’s going to be more than that. I noticed yesterday in this chamber somebody used the $43.9 billion figure again. Again, I couldn’t get an answer from the minister.

I can cite many examples where I have been looking for information and I can’t get it, and it’s basic information. So the document that I have been using mostly is the Public Accounts of Canada for the year ended March 2022. But that information is now 18 months old. It is six months now after the fiscal year just ended.

Next week, our National Finance Committee will continue their study of the Main Estimates. It would be very helpful if we had the actual numbers for last year so that we could look at the estimates for this year and compare the numbers.

My question is this: When will the government release the 2023 Public Accounts — are they going to make us wait until December as they did the year before last?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, on Tuesday, my colleagues and I asked you multiple questions about Prime Minister Trudeau’s Senate appointments to the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, known as NSICOP. We asked for transparency on the appointments and we have asked you to get information from the Prime Minister as a representative of the Trudeau government in this chamber. Senator Gold, you have had two days to make a phone call and get an answer from your boss, the Prime Minister. Why are there no Conservative opposition senators on NSICOP?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. As I answered on many occasions on Tuesday, the Prime Minister made the decision based upon a range of criteria, from the need for diversity to geographic and others, the competencies that different candidates would have brought forward and the needs of the committee.

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(At 4:59 p.m., the Senate was continued until Tuesday, September 26, 2023, at 2 p.m.)

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?