On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gerba, seconded by the Honourable Senator Klyne, for the second reading of Bill C-282, An Act to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act (supply management).

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of my son, Tristan Fréchette.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Gignac: Are you willing to draw inspiration from the United States and go so far as to exclude companies doing business in hostile countries from public tenders, since this is the case in the United States, with transport equipment, for example? We know that the Chinese are well versed in facial recognition, for example. Whether we are talking about China or other countries that are hostile to us, would you be prepared to exclude certain countries, as the United States does in its public tenders?

Senator Housakos: Minister, we all know there have been huge overrun costs when it comes to managing this project. That’s number one. We do know, as parliamentarians, that in itself raises red flags.

We also know that when the RCMP opens an investigation, at bare minimum, there is a suspicion of wrongdoing.

Again, what steps have you taken, as a minister who has just gotten into the ministry, to make sure you get to the bottom of this before we wait for an RCMP report or an Auditor General’s report? What pre-emptive steps have you taken to look into this case and give us assurances that this will never reoccur?

Senator Gerba: Thank you, minister.

The government set a mandatory minimum 5% Indigenous procurement target.

Are you considering a similar target for Black-owned businesses?

Senator Plett: Minister, the mandate letter wasn’t given to your immediate predecessor. It was actually given to the Public Services and Procurement Minister before her, two ministers ago. No progress was made on any of these issues in two years.

What do you think you can deliver in the next two or possibly even one year before we have a common-sense Conservative government led by Pierre Poilievre?

[Translation]

Senator Poirier: Could you also then inquire as to whether there are other contracts like this waiting to be discovered? You can provide assurance to Canadian taxpayers that there are no other contracts also being withheld by your government?

Senator Miville-Dechêne: I understand what you’re saying, but there is a policy. A future government could repeal or modify that environmental policy.

My question is, do you think these criteria on the environment and the circular economy should be enshrined in the Financial Administration Act to make them a priority — a real priority — and a requirement in government procurement?

As you pointed out, this way of dealing with procurement processes is based on regulations or policies. In both cases, it’s easy to make changes. It is easy for future governments to change policies. If we want to ensure that the way we’re currently addressing Canadians’ environmental concerns will continue in the future, it might be worth considering other ways of doing things.

Senator Loffreda: Thank you for that. Do you see any difficulty in converting some of that office space into homes for those who need housing? Office space can be very costly. Has any analysis been undertaken to study that issue and the problems that might arise?

[Translation]

Senator Mégie: Thank you very much.

(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Jean‑Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Senator Plett: Eight years of Justin Trudeau — not worth the cost. “How much?” was my question, minister. Last week, just as the Auditor General was beginning her testimony before a House of Commons committee regarding ArriveCAN, Liberal and NDP coalition MPs voted to shut it down. Minister, who gave the order to shut down the meeting? Was it you? Were you or your office involved in this direction? What is your government so desperate to hide, minister? What are you hiding?

The economic cost would have been billions of dollars, with hundreds of thousands of additional jobs lost because of inaction. It’s true — as you’re suggesting — that, had we been governed at that time by a Conservative government, things would have been very different. Hundreds of thousands more people would have died, as I just said, with billions more in economic costs, but that was not the situation. We invested in Canadians, supported them and had full confidence in their ability to be vaccinated and follow public health advice.

Senator Quinn: Thank you, minister. As someone who has been involved in many contracts in government, I’ll come back to examples in other jurisdictions where the lowest bidder and highest bidder are put aside, they look at the average, and anybody that is qualified can be awarded the contract at the average or below.

Can the government not look at other jurisdictions to see how they reduced the risk of underbidding in order to win the contract and then catching up with extras and work arisings? It’s a very specific question.

[Translation]

Senator Boisvenu: What is the budget for purchasing this polar icebreaker?

[English]

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!

[Translation]

Senator Cardozo: I still have 45 seconds. I want to suggest a few other ideas to liven up the National Capital Region: create a state-of-the-art science and tech museum downtown; put a portrait gallery in a decommissioned office building; build an arts district and an art studio in the ByWard Market, centred around the National Gallery; and a new graffiti museum.

On 24 Sussex, can you just take that and throw it in with the renovation of Parliament Hill and have the joint all-party committee take care of that, take the politics out of it and make that all happen? Your comments, please.

I am looking forward to hearing more from you on that short list of things we can do with our social, physical and historical environment in which we have the fortune of working in almost every day.

Senator Omidvar: Thank you, minister. Am I hearing you say that you are actively considering community benefits in the awarding of government procurement programs?

[Translation]

Senator Forest: Thank you.

All things considered, it’s hard to argue that there’s a level playing field for Davie workers, given that Davie itself is paying for its modernization with no help from Ottawa and that a lot of money went to Irving Shipbuilding.

Senator Dagenais: Delays and bureaucracy are two factors that sometimes slow down the procurement of equipment for our Armed Forces. Those delays have cost Canadian taxpayers a fortune since this government came to power. Why doesn’t Canada have a procurement department exclusively for Department of Defence requirements, like Britain does, with experts who know what they’re doing, instead of sometimes granting contracts to consultants?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Maxime Langlois. He is the guest of the Honourable Senator Boisvenu.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.