Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you. I am going to both correct and confirm what you said.

It is incorrect to say that no action has been taken and that no contract has been entered into or discussed with Seaspan, which has been part of the strategy since 2011.

I would be pleased to give you more information about the positive progress being made at this shipyard on the construction of the polar icebreaker.

As for the Davie shipyard, we are obviously talking longer term because it was unfairly and inappropriately excluded from the first National Shipbuilding Strategy in 2011 by the government of the day. Everyone in Quebec and elsewhere in the country is delighted that this mistake was corrected a few months ago. Naturally, we have to work with the shipyard in its current condition, after it was excluded from the first strategy.

We are working very well with the Davie shipyard. Its staff are dynamic and their suppliers’ association is amazing. It travels across the country and around the globe promoting the importance of investing in Quebec City, in Quebec and in Canada, for projects like the construction of the icebreaker they will eventually receive.

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Welcome, minister.

The response that I received recently from your government regarding the procurement of icebreakers confirms that it is now practically impossible for the Trudeau government to meet its objective of getting a single polar icebreaker in service by 2030.

Your government told me that contract negotiations have not even begun yet, whether it be with Davie or Vancouver.

Why did your government not place any real importance on your own deadline of 2030, and why didn’t it rigorously and diligently take the necessary steps to meet that objective?

Hon. Jim Quinn: Thank you for joining us this afternoon, Mr. Duclos.

[English]

When bidders respond to tender requests, they respond to technical and other requirements as outlined in the tender and submit their cost for delivery of a service and a product. Our process is such that the lowest qualified bid wins the contract. However, far too often the qualified bid with the lowest price has been underbid to the point that “extras” or “work arisings” result in a final price that far exceeds the price submitted in the bid. What steps can the government take to reduce the risk associated with underbidding?

If I can go back briefly — because I know time is always too short — to your first question on the integrity of the process, I can assure you that it is my responsibility and the responsibility of my officials to make sure that when a contract is awarded, the requirements that the businesses signing those contracts accept are followed up on and enforced if it is necessary to enforce them.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you again for that great question.

In regard to community benefits, they include both the social and environmental benefits of using procurement as an important public policy tool.

In regard to social benefits, we’ve already spoken about the importance of supporting various groups whose relative exclusion in the procurement process harms Canadians who are from those groups, but it is also harmful to the overall competitiveness of procurement processes.

When more providers and suppliers are included — including women, Indigenous Canadians and Black-owned or Black-led businesses — everyone benefits. That is the first piece, and the second piece is green procurement.

This is a good statistic: Between 2005 and 2023, investments in properties and federally‑owned buildings decreased the level of greenhouse gas, or GHG, emissions by 60%. Now, in 2023, we have 60% less GHG emissions than in 2005 because of the non-economic impact of investments in our communities, so these are important aspects as well.

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Hello and thank you for being here with us, minister.

Government procurement has reached nearly $22 billion a year. That is a lot of money. Some companies that are making efforts to incorporate recycled items and, more generally, to accelerate the transition to a circular economy are complaining that your procurement process doesn’t include incentives for this.

I know that the government has a policy on green procurement, but I gather that these criteria are not always enforced. Is that right? Is it just one criterion among hundreds of others, or is it a priority?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, in May, the Trudeau government said it would finally bring forward its plan — by this fall — on the future of 24 Sussex Drive. Today is October 18, and we have still not seen this plan.

In February, your department provided me with a written answer which shows that since 2016, your government has spent over $800,000 of taxpayers’ money trying to figure out what to do with 24 Sussex Drive. Eight long years, with over $800,000 spent, and there’s still no plan, minister.

Are you going to bring one forward this fall, as promised? If not, are you just going to keep spending taxpayers’ money without making a decision?

Hon. Ratna Omidvar: Thank you for being with us, minister.

In 2018 to 2019, I was the Senate sponsor of Bill C-344, which amended the Department of Public Works and Government Services Act, and required your department to consider the provision of community benefits in its procurement processes: jobs, business opportunities, et cetera. The bill fell off the Order Paper because the election was called in 2019. Subsequently, then-Minister of Public Services and Procurement Carla Qualtrough wrote to me saying that, notwithstanding, she would consider a policy ensuring that public benefits were considered in the procurement process.

Can you give me an update on this particular aspect of procurement?

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: First, in regard to the timeline, my predecessor — whom you would know — did say that we are looking forward to the fall to provide Canadians, and the Senate indirectly, with an update on what the plan is for official residences, including the official residence of the Prime Minister.

Second, 24 Sussex Drive is currently being worked on. Asbestos is being removed, and the integrity of the building is being protected. Whatever the final decision may be, the building will be there. It won’t be in its current shape because it’s not safe — for the reasons that I just mentioned — but it will be available for the use that Canadians will want to make of it.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you, Senator Dagenais. I don’t know enough about this issue. It falls more within the purview of my colleague, the Minister of Justice. I could ask him to contact you.

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: Hello, minister. In 2020, Public Services and Procurement Canada acquired a parking lot in Old Montreal to build a new building for the Federal Court and its prosecutors. That lot cost $7 million for 150,000 square feet of office space, plus the construction bill. Can you justify this project to relocate the Federal Court, which is already located in another building in Old Montreal? It certainly doesn’t make sense, especially at a time when the President of the Treasury Board is calling for $15 billion in cuts to government spending.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you very much. That was a great question, and I would have liked to have listened to it completely. Maybe your second chance will make that possible.

You pointed to the right elements: first, safety; second, the precinct versus the city; and third, the important work with the City of Ottawa.

It has been clear over the last few years — and it is increasingly clear — that the safety of parliamentarians, including senators, must be at the centre of the conversation that we’re having with the City of Ottawa on the future of Wellington Street. It is also true that as we see the enhancement and modernization of our parliamentary facilities, we are moving from a precinct to a parliamentary city. That’s good news, I think, for most Canadians. We’ve seen the beneficial outcomes of this in other countries of the world.

Finally, you are quite correct to point out the important relationship that we need to have with the City of Ottawa. I will meet with the mayor quite soon, and I look forward to reporting on the outcome of that meeting.

The Hon. the Speaker: Thank you, senator.

[English]

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, two years ago, one of your predecessors was tasked in her mandate letter from the Prime Minister with the following: continue the modernization of procurement practices; renew the Coast Guard and navy fleets; ensure the ongoing delivery of defence procurement; resolve outstanding Phoenix pay system issues; rehabilitate 24 Sussex; replace the Alexandra Bridge, plus build an additional crossing on the Ottawa River; ensure a minimum of 5% of the total value of federal contracts for Indigenous businesses.

Minister, you have not received your mandate letter. Is it because it would only be a copy-and-paste of the old one since nothing has been done on the other one since the last election?

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you. Your question is, again, fair, and it will require a long answer. Let me, therefore, point to just two things that you briefly mentioned.

The National Shipbuilding Strategy, I just mentioned earlier the great and long-awaited progress we have been able to make, including the Davie shipyards as the new third shipyard in the new National Shipbuilding Strategy. This is a significant step which will lead to faster delivery of ships that the Coast Guard and other organizations require, at a lower cost, at a higher speed and with greater outcomes for Canadian industry.

On the 5% Indigenous procurement target, I spoke to that earlier. A number of departments have already exceeded that target; others need to work harder. We look forward to posting and revealing the global estimate toward the beginning of 2024.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you very much. Your question is both fair and legitimate. I will be glad to come back to you with the details that you are seeking. I don’t have these details with me, but I would be glad to do that with the assistance of my officials.

Hon. Rose-May Poirier: Thank you, minister, for being here. Minister, the Trudeau government never proactively disclosed that consulting firm Accenture is running the Canada Emergency Business Account, or CEBA, loan program for small businesses. Accenture received contracts worth at least $208 million. These contracts were kept from parliamentarians and from the Canadian taxpayers, and were revealed to The Globe and Mail through access to information.

As the procurement minister, do you believe this procurement was open and transparent? Could you also tell us the current total of these contracts?

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: Minister, thank you for being with us as the new Minister of Public Services and Procurement. Congratulations on your appointment.

[English]

Through your various portfolios, you have become known as “Mr. Fix It,” so I look forward to you being able to fix the issue I want to raise with you. My question is regarding the future of Wellington Street and your responsibilities in the National Capital Region.

There has long been a vision to develop the street into a pedestrian area to enhance the space in front of our important temple of democracy, to turn it into a people friendly plaza that highlights and celebrates our rich history. There is also an important aspect of parliamentary security to making such changes.

The unlawful occupation by the convoy in early 2021 highlighted for us that leaving this space open to cars and trucks was a bad idea, and this highlighted that we badly need to do something positive with this area.

I believe there have been discussions between the Government of Canada and the City of Ottawa —

[Translation]

Hon. Marie-Françoise Mégie: Hello, minister. Earlier, you answered Senator Gerba’s question about the content of your mandate letter, which talks about 5% of the total value of federal contracts being held by Indigenous businesses.

I did not quite understand whether you set any targets for Black communities, but you will need to have targets in order to measure these communities’ progress and determine whether the objectives have been met.

I am not sure whether you mentioned targets for these communities.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you, that’s a great question. The answer will come from my colleague at the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, the agency that needed to design, implement and support that application. In that $54 million to which you referred, there is a series of contracts whose services and value went well beyond the design of the application itself. It was essential, as we said earlier, to make it possible for tens of thousands of Canadians to cross the border at a time during which it was also important to protect the health and safety of millions of Canadians.