On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gerba, seconded by the Honourable Senator Klyne, for the second reading of Bill C-282, An Act to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act (supply management).

Senator Omidvar: Thank you, minister. Am I hearing you say that you are actively considering community benefits in the awarding of government procurement programs?

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: No.

(On motion of Senator Housakos, debate adjourned.)

[English]

The Senate proceeded to consideration of the twelfth report (interim) of the Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples, entitled On the Outside Looking In: The Implementation of the Cannabis Act and its effects on Indigenous Peoples, tabled in the Senate on June 14, 2023.

Senator Forest: Thank you for the question.

I am very honoured to get a question from the sponsor of the bill. It is true that we have seen many countries do the same thing the United States is doing with sugar, for example. It has a supply management policy. It even implemented a subsidy for turning surplus stock into ethanol. Every country has the right to protect certain tariff lines, and many countries use that practice.

Senator Miville-Dechêne: I understand what you’re saying, but there is a policy. A future government could repeal or modify that environmental policy.

My question is, do you think these criteria on the environment and the circular economy should be enshrined in the Financial Administration Act to make them a priority — a real priority — and a requirement in government procurement?

As you pointed out, this way of dealing with procurement processes is based on regulations or policies. In both cases, it’s easy to make changes. It is easy for future governments to change policies. If we want to ensure that the way we’re currently addressing Canadians’ environmental concerns will continue in the future, it might be worth considering other ways of doing things.

Senator Plett: Let me just ask this, minister: Will you commit to getting the answer from the CBSA for us? It is easier for you to get than for me to get. If you can get us that answer in writing, I will accept that.

With you and your government constantly telling us how transparent you are, I would appreciate you to be transparent with us now and give us the answer to the question I asked you.

Senator Dagenais: Delays and bureaucracy are two factors that sometimes slow down the procurement of equipment for our Armed Forces. Those delays have cost Canadian taxpayers a fortune since this government came to power. Why doesn’t Canada have a procurement department exclusively for Department of Defence requirements, like Britain does, with experts who know what they’re doing, instead of sometimes granting contracts to consultants?

(Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, to receive a Minister of the Crown, the Honourable Jean‑Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement, appeared before honourable senators during Question Period.)

Senator Forest: Thank you.

All things considered, it’s hard to argue that there’s a level playing field for Davie workers, given that Davie itself is paying for its modernization with no help from Ottawa and that a lot of money went to Irving Shipbuilding.

Senator Poirier: Could you also then inquire as to whether there are other contracts like this waiting to be discovered? You can provide assurance to Canadian taxpayers that there are no other contracts also being withheld by your government?

Senator Housakos: Based on the polling of Canadians, they seem to think that your government has been a monumental failure.

Minister Duclos, as my colleague Senator Plett mentioned, there is now an RCMP investigation into “ArriveScam” involving very serious allegations of forgery of documents, such as CVs and invoices. Minister, at a time when we’ve seen an unprecedented increase of more than 30% in government outsourcing of contracts, what assurances do Canadians have that the minimum due diligence is being exercised? Who is responsible for something as simple as verifying CVs and conducting proper reference checks? If we can’t have confidence that’s being done, minister, how can we have confidence that contracts are being awarded properly?

[Translation]

Senator Plett: Minister, the mandate letter wasn’t given to your immediate predecessor. It was actually given to the Public Services and Procurement Minister before her, two ministers ago. No progress was made on any of these issues in two years.

What do you think you can deliver in the next two or possibly even one year before we have a common-sense Conservative government led by Pierre Poilievre?

[Translation]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gerba, seconded by the Honourable Senator Klyne, for the second reading of Bill C-282, An Act to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act (supply management).

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Maxime Langlois. He is the guest of the Honourable Senator Boisvenu.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Mégie: Thank you very much.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of my son, Tristan Fréchette.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Gerba: Thank you, minister.

The government set a mandatory minimum 5% Indigenous procurement target.

Are you considering a similar target for Black-owned businesses?

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Gerba, seconded by the Honourable Senator Klyne, for the second reading of Bill C-282, An Act to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act (supply management).

Senator Loffreda: Thank you for that. Do you see any difficulty in converting some of that office space into homes for those who need housing? Office space can be very costly. Has any analysis been undertaken to study that issue and the problems that might arise?

[Translation]