Hon. Ratna Omidvar: Thank you for being with us, minister.

In 2018 to 2019, I was the Senate sponsor of Bill C-344, which amended the Department of Public Works and Government Services Act, and required your department to consider the provision of community benefits in its procurement processes: jobs, business opportunities, et cetera. The bill fell off the Order Paper because the election was called in 2019. Subsequently, then-Minister of Public Services and Procurement Carla Qualtrough wrote to me saying that, notwithstanding, she would consider a policy ensuring that public benefits were considered in the procurement process.

Can you give me an update on this particular aspect of procurement?

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you for the question, senator.

The answer is yes and no. It is indeed an important criterion, but it’s not the only one. Among all the criteria that public servants and the people managing these contracts have to take into account, there are others as well. The environmental impact of our procurement process is key — increasingly so — because we know that we can’t keep going in the same direction, from an environmental point of view, because we will hit a wall. We saw the preliminary impact over the past few months in Canada and Quebec.

However, there are other important criteria, such as social inclusion, social participation and obviously efficiency, which, as I was saying, is sometimes improved and supported by other criteria. Again, the social inclusion criterion broadens participation in the procurement process. It supports greater competition in these processes, which means better results for the Canadian government and for Canadians.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: First, in regard to the timeline, my predecessor — whom you would know — did say that we are looking forward to the fall to provide Canadians, and the Senate indirectly, with an update on what the plan is for official residences, including the official residence of the Prime Minister.

Second, 24 Sussex Drive is currently being worked on. Asbestos is being removed, and the integrity of the building is being protected. Whatever the final decision may be, the building will be there. It won’t be in its current shape because it’s not safe — for the reasons that I just mentioned — but it will be available for the use that Canadians will want to make of it.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you, Senator Dagenais. I don’t know enough about this issue. It falls more within the purview of my colleague, the Minister of Justice. I could ask him to contact you.

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: Hello, minister. In 2020, Public Services and Procurement Canada acquired a parking lot in Old Montreal to build a new building for the Federal Court and its prosecutors. That lot cost $7 million for 150,000 square feet of office space, plus the construction bill. Can you justify this project to relocate the Federal Court, which is already located in another building in Old Montreal? It certainly doesn’t make sense, especially at a time when the President of the Treasury Board is calling for $15 billion in cuts to government spending.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you very much. That was a great question, and I would have liked to have listened to it completely. Maybe your second chance will make that possible.

You pointed to the right elements: first, safety; second, the precinct versus the city; and third, the important work with the City of Ottawa.

It has been clear over the last few years — and it is increasingly clear — that the safety of parliamentarians, including senators, must be at the centre of the conversation that we’re having with the City of Ottawa on the future of Wellington Street. It is also true that as we see the enhancement and modernization of our parliamentary facilities, we are moving from a precinct to a parliamentary city. That’s good news, I think, for most Canadians. We’ve seen the beneficial outcomes of this in other countries of the world.

Finally, you are quite correct to point out the important relationship that we need to have with the City of Ottawa. I will meet with the mayor quite soon, and I look forward to reporting on the outcome of that meeting.

The Hon. the Speaker: Thank you, senator.

[English]

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you. Your question is, again, fair, and it will require a long answer. Let me, therefore, point to just two things that you briefly mentioned.

The National Shipbuilding Strategy, I just mentioned earlier the great and long-awaited progress we have been able to make, including the Davie shipyards as the new third shipyard in the new National Shipbuilding Strategy. This is a significant step which will lead to faster delivery of ships that the Coast Guard and other organizations require, at a lower cost, at a higher speed and with greater outcomes for Canadian industry.

On the 5% Indigenous procurement target, I spoke to that earlier. A number of departments have already exceeded that target; others need to work harder. We look forward to posting and revealing the global estimate toward the beginning of 2024.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you very much. Your question is both fair and legitimate. I will be glad to come back to you with the details that you are seeking. I don’t have these details with me, but I would be glad to do that with the assistance of my officials.

Hon. Rose-May Poirier: Thank you, minister, for being here. Minister, the Trudeau government never proactively disclosed that consulting firm Accenture is running the Canada Emergency Business Account, or CEBA, loan program for small businesses. Accenture received contracts worth at least $208 million. These contracts were kept from parliamentarians and from the Canadian taxpayers, and were revealed to The Globe and Mail through access to information.

As the procurement minister, do you believe this procurement was open and transparent? Could you also tell us the current total of these contracts?

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: Minister, thank you for being with us as the new Minister of Public Services and Procurement. Congratulations on your appointment.

[English]

Through your various portfolios, you have become known as “Mr. Fix It,” so I look forward to you being able to fix the issue I want to raise with you. My question is regarding the future of Wellington Street and your responsibilities in the National Capital Region.

There has long been a vision to develop the street into a pedestrian area to enhance the space in front of our important temple of democracy, to turn it into a people friendly plaza that highlights and celebrates our rich history. There is also an important aspect of parliamentary security to making such changes.

The unlawful occupation by the convoy in early 2021 highlighted for us that leaving this space open to cars and trucks was a bad idea, and this highlighted that we badly need to do something positive with this area.

I believe there have been discussions between the Government of Canada and the City of Ottawa —

[Translation]

Hon. Marie-Françoise Mégie: Hello, minister. Earlier, you answered Senator Gerba’s question about the content of your mandate letter, which talks about 5% of the total value of federal contracts being held by Indigenous businesses.

I did not quite understand whether you set any targets for Black communities, but you will need to have targets in order to measure these communities’ progress and determine whether the objectives have been met.

I am not sure whether you mentioned targets for these communities.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you, that’s a great question. The answer will come from my colleague at the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, the agency that needed to design, implement and support that application. In that $54 million to which you referred, there is a series of contracts whose services and value went well beyond the design of the application itself. It was essential, as we said earlier, to make it possible for tens of thousands of Canadians to cross the border at a time during which it was also important to protect the health and safety of millions of Canadians.

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Great question. We still have some work to do, because the bill was passed after several attempts, thanks in large part to your work, senator. It was a difficult process over the last couple of years. There were some setbacks in terms of parliamentary procedure at some points.

The good news is that the bill finally passed. Now, we have to make regulations. Thankfully, MP McKay, whom you mentioned, is discussing it and working on it as hard as you are. With all the work that you’re both doing, we should be able to do what’s left to be done.

Hon. Tony Loffreda: Minister, we discussed the government’s intention to reduce real estate holdings. We know there is a plan that you will do so over 10 years, but that seems to be a long time. Is there any intention or effort to do it in a shorter time frame? We’re talking about homelessness in Canada and housing affordability — concerns that are major and important to Canadian citizens and communities. Is there any possibility of making that a little quicker than 10 years?

We know that to fix the housing crisis, we need quick and substantial actions in the short term but also investments in the longer term. We are in a world where the demographic changes will not stop. We have an aging population, smaller households on average, and the needs of Canadians and our seniors are also changing. This requires different types of housing units and locations in a manner that is protective of their safety and the health of their environment. It must be a longer-term plan, but it also has to be, as you said, a quick, expedited plan to support housing for Canadians.

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Minister, starting on January 1, 2024, federal institutions and departments like yours will be subject to the new Fighting Against Forced Labour and Child Labour in Supply Chains Act, formerly known as Bill S-211. I was the sponsor of this bill, along with your colleague, MP John McKay. The new act requires the government to report on risks of modern slavery regarding the goods it purchases and on the measures it is taking to mitigate those risks.

My question is quite simple: Are you ready?

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Thank you for that excellent question. Let me be a bit more clear. There is a clear target of 5% for Indigenous-owned or -operated businesses. We look forward to sharing the initial results of those measures in early 2024.

Similarly, in 2021, we also implemented a plan to diversify the procurement process to increase competition in the awarding of such contracts. Since 2021, there has been a pilot project that has made it possible to help Black-owned or -operated businesses enter into 12 procurement contracts with the Canadian government. The purpose of the pilot project is to determine whether the process is working well, so that we can assess the results it achieves in terms of job creation and identify the challenges that these businesses have perhaps had to face since the pilot project began. We will then see how we can move forward. We could set specific targets for certain groups, including Black-owned or -operated businesses.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, I will ask another question with no rhetoric on my part and no criticism of the ArriveCAN app. I hope, minister, you can give me an answer without telling me how much good it did or how many lives it saved.

I have a simple question, minister. We have a cost of at least $54 million. If you cannot answer me today, can you commit to telling me how many dollars and cents the ArriveCAN app cost Canadian taxpayers?

Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, P.C., M.P., Minister of Public Services and Procurement: Your question, Senator Gignac, is both sombre and important. It’s true that we have been feeling for some time that humanity isn’t necessarily moving in the right direction, and certain dangers come along with that in terms of using and sharing information amongst countries that share the same values.

My colleague from National Defence, my colleague from Public Safety, the President of the Treasury Board and I have a mandate to work together, including with our partners abroad, to recognize that the longer this goes on, the more important it will be to protect the security of Canadians and our allies in an environment that increasingly demands a collaborative approach. I could go into further detail, but this is the most useful thing I can say for now.