Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question, senator. You’re absolutely right, employee ownership trusts have a number of benefits. They enable employees to share in the success of their work, they support participation in business decisions and they allow workers to receive their share of the profits.

Budget 2023 announced the government’s commitment to create these trusts while consulting, as properly they should, with stakeholders to address remaining barriers. Budget 2023 proposed to introduce tax changes to facilitate the creation of these trusts. The government has consulted with stakeholders to see how best to enhance employee rights and to enhance their participation in the governance of employee ownership trusts, and will have more to say in due course.

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: Senator Gold, in June of 2022, then defence minister Anita Anand announced $38.6 billion to modernize the North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD. The funding is meant to be spent over 20 years and is focused on modernizing our surveillance systems, the technology we use and our air-weapon systems while also investing in new infrastructure and support capabilities as well as science and technology aimed at future proofing our capabilities to defend North America.

The President of the U.S. and Prime Minister Trudeau released a joint statement on March 24, 2023, stating:

Our highest priority is to protect our citizens and our sovereign territory. We will invest in the modernization of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) . . .

They specifically agreed to accelerate the procurement of the Over-the-Horizon Radar to 2028, and Canadian investment in Arctic infrastructure to support the arrival of the first F-35 aircraft in Canada.

Senator, can you give this chamber an update on the contract for specific investments?

Hon. Tony Loffreda: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold, in Budget 2023, the government committed to introducing tax changes that would take effect in 2024 to facilitate the creation of employee ownership trusts. I am a strong supporter of employee ownership trusts as they would provide business owners an alternative succession option that would allow employees to share in the success of their work.

We know that 76% of Canada’s business owners plan to exit their business within the next decade, and only 1 in 10 has a formal succession plan in place. The timing for employee ownership trusts is now. Senator Gold, can you assure us that this remains a top priority, and when might we expect the government’s legislative proposal?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question, for your continuing leadership and work on this file and for bringing these matters to our attention — as you did as a critic, if I recall. You continue to do this to your credit.

As evidence accumulates, the government will continue to evaluate the implications of that evidence for changes or amendments, whether it’s with legislation, regulations or other policy directives. I am not aware of the status of those deliberations, much less where they will lead. However, as soon as more information is available, I will certainly be pleased to share it in this chamber, as I know the government will be sharing it with the Canadian people.

Hon. Chantal Petitclerc: Senator Gold, on October 3, in response to Senator Plett, you told us that it is the wish of the government you represent that the Senate become more modern and less partisan. The following can also be read on your website:

. . . The GRO shepherds government legislation through the Upper Chamber, ensuring that it is thoroughly and efficiently reviewed. A major focus of the GRO is to support Senate modernization by advocating for a more independent, accountable, responsible and transparent Senate — one that conducts its deliberations in a less partisan manner.

Senator Gold, can you tell us if you consider your government to be well on its way to achieving its goal of a modernized Senate? Is this part of your mandate nearing completion?

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Honourable senators, last Monday, La Presse informed us of the recent seizure of a record amount of drugs, cell phones and homemade weapons at the Cowansville Institution, valued at $700,000 over three months. We are talking about $2 million for 2023.

In light of this information, it is obvious that the safety and rehabilitation of inmates are not a priority for your government. Why does the government plan to spend a billion dollars to buy back guns from law-abiding hunters under Bill C-21 when it has invested very little in security and the control of illegal weapons in prisons?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question.

Disinformation is a problem in our society. It undermines peace, prosperity and our individual freedoms. It erodes trust in democracy and reinforces polarizing viewpoints that are not used for the common good. Especially in time of crisis, this information is dangerous and harmful.

The Government of Canada works in close collaboration with its allies, and it shares pertinent intelligence to counter the global threats. It has also established the Strategic Coordination Centre on Information Sharing to help support timely, effective and responsible sharing of such information between institutions of this government.

The government is taking steps and considering steps to counter state-sponsored disinformation in Canada. It has created a dedicated team to help increase Canada’s capacity to understand, monitor and detect disinformation, and decisions will continue to be based on the best interests of Canadians.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. It’s an important question. The truth is, we have taken some steps — both in the Senate internally and through legislation — toward a less partisan Senate that still, importantly, reflects the current reality that there are groups in the Senate not affiliated with political parties. However, we are not so far along that there is not more work to do.

We have been on record, both in the Rules Committee and in other forums, to argue that it is important that our Rules of the Senate now be brought into line with the Parliament of Canada Act that was passed and that governs our structures, deliberations and activities here. That job is not finished yet.

In addition, I would hope, whether it’s in my time or others, that more steps are taken to make this a more efficient, inclusive, family-friendly environment for all of us to work in.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question and for pointing out the problem and the real challenge that the Correctional Service of Canada and the police are facing, with respect to contraband and trafficking in our federal and provincial penitentiaries. It is a real problem. Everyone knows that. It is a bit difficult to respond to how that connects with Bill C-21. Fortunately, the committee responsible for this bill will begin its study next week. We, as senators, will have the opportunity to follow that study with interest. We will thoroughly examine the issues surrounding this bill, as we always do in the Senate.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this message be taken into consideration?

(On motion of Senator Gold, message placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.)

[English]

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 234, dated June 6, 2023, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Carignan, P.C., regarding the proportion of federal employees teleworking.

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, as it is Autism Awareness Month, I would be remiss if I did not ask about your government’s progress concerning its legal obligations under Bill S-203, which received Royal Assent earlier this year. This legislation was non‑prescriptive to ensure that the government and stakeholders — including autistic Canadians themselves — were the ultimate authority on what the framework should look like. To that end, the legislation requires the ministry to convene a meeting with stakeholders and provincial counterparts within a year. Of course, that’s in the law. It’s an important part of the legislation because it ensures that autistic Canadians are not left out of drafting the framework.

Senator Gold, can you please tell us where the government — specifically the Ministry of Health — is on this issue? When will it be convening the conference? It is, of course, of interest to everyone in this chamber.

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 229, dated May 30, 2023, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the Canada Emergency Business Account program.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform the Senate that a message has been received from the House of Commons which reads as follows:

Wednesday, October 18, 2023

EXTRACT, —

That,

(a)the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying be re-appointed, in accordance with Recommendation 13 in the second report of the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying;

(b)five members of the Senate and 10 members of the House of Commons be members of the committee, including five members of the House of Commons from the governing party, three members of the House of Commons from the official opposition, and two members of the House of Commons from the opposition who are not members of the official opposition, with two Chairs of which the House Co‑Chair shall be from the governing party and the Senate Co-Chair shall be determined by the Senate;

(c)in addition to the Co-Chairs, the committee shall elect three vice-chairs from the House, of whom the first vice-chair shall be from the Conservative Party of Canada, the second vice-chair shall be from the Bloc Québécois and the third vice-chair shall be from the New Democratic Party;

(d)the quorum of the committee be eight members whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, so long as both Houses and one member of the governing party in the House, one from the opposition in the House and one member of the Senate are represented, and that the Joint Chairs be authorized to hold meetings, to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof, whenever six members are present, so long as both Houses and one member of the governing party in the House, one member from the opposition in the House and one member of the Senate are represented;

(e)the House of Commons members be named by their respective whip by depositing with the Clerk of the House the list of their members to serve on the committee no later than five sitting days after the adoption of this motion;

(f)changes to the membership of the committee, on the part of the House of Commons, be effective immediately after notification by the relevant whip has been filed with the Clerk of the House;

(g)membership substitutions, on the part of the House of Commons, be permitted, if required, in the manner provided for in Standing Order 114(2);

(h)where applicable to a special joint committee, the provisions relating to hybrid committee proceedings contained in the Standing Orders of the House of Commons shall also apply to the committee;

(i)the committee have the power to:

(i)sit during sittings and adjournments of the House,

(ii)report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence as may be ordered by the committee,

(iii)retain the services of expert, professional, technical and clerical staff, including legal counsel,

(iv)appoint, from among its members such subcommittees as may be deemed appropriate and to delegate to such subcommittees, all or any of its powers, except the power to report to the Senate and House of Commons,

(v)authorize video and audio broadcasting of any or all of its proceedings and that public proceedings be made available to the public via the Parliament of Canada’s websites;

(j)the committee submit a final report of its review, including any recommendations, to Parliament no later than January 31, 2024; and

(k)following the presentation of the final report in both Houses, the committee shall expire; and

that a message be sent to the Senate requesting that House to unite with this House for the above purpose and to select, if the Senate deems advisable, members to act on the proposed special joint committee.

ATTEST

Eric Janse

Acting Clerk of the House of Commons

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you. I am certainly going to make inquiries about the progress, but I first want to take the opportunity to congratulate you on the work you have done now for decades in support of these important initiatives. Indeed, I will add my voice, if it’s not inappropriate, to support the Giant Steps program to which you alluded and with which my family and I are very familiar.

This is an important question. It’s an important and necessary step — but only the first step — toward providing resources, health and support for those in the autistic community so they can live a fruitful and productive life and, indeed, contribute to society and benefit us with what they have to offer. So, thank you for the question.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, the time for Question Period has expired.

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I have the honour to table the answers to the following oral questions:

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on May 4, 2023, by the Honourable Senator McPhedran, concerning the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on May 10, 2023, by the Honourable Senator Martin, concerning the Canada Emergency Business Account.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on June 13, 2023, by the Honourable Senator Martin, concerning the Canada Emergency Business Account.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marilou McPhedran on May 4, 2023)

The Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise (CORE) has not received any complaints about Canadian garment, mining or oil/gas companies in Myanmar. The CORE suspects that other companies likely face similar challenges.

The CORE recommends that the Canadian government introduce mandatory human rights and environmental due diligence (HREDD) legislation. This would require Canadian companies in Myanmar to put in place HREDD processes. When companies operate in high-risk contexts like Myanmar, there is a heightened risk their operations or business relationships may result in or contribute to gross human rights abuses, including those committed by the Tatmadaw. Companies should therefore identify human rights risks throughout their supply chain and put in place an HREDD framework. If HREDD is not possible, companies should apply collective leverage over suppliers to address and remediate human rights abuses, or plan a responsible exit from the country.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Yonah Martin on May 10, 2023)

From the inception of the Canada Emergency Business Account (CEBA) program (through April 30, 2023), Accenture has been awarded $208 million in contracts, including upcoming work for the 2023-2024 year to build out the collections phase.

Export Development Canada (EDC), not Accenture, was directed by the Government to design, deliver and administer the CEBA program. Many of the capabilities required to develop and administer the CEBA program fall outside EDC’s core expertise as an export credit agency. As such, EDC informed the Government that it would outsource the extensive work required for CEBA given its scale, complexity, and timing requirements, necessitating third‑party expertise and resources to deliver. EDC would not have been able to deliver CEBA without vendor assistance. Accenture’s capacity augmented EDC’s staff and provided technology services, not solely consultant advice.

EDC is aware of Government guidelines requiring regular disclosure/reporting of contracts by Departments. As a crown corporation, EDC does not fall under federal procurement processes. EDC does have a separate disclosure process for award notices for applicable procurement contracts. This process was implemented in December 2021, subsequent to the Accenture award for CEBA.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Yonah Martin on June 13, 2023)

In March 2020, Export Development Canada (EDC) was directed by the Governor-in-Council, upon recommendation of the Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade, to take all measures necessary to support Canadian businesses, as part of the Government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In this regard, the Government requested that EDC administer the Canada Emergency Business Account (CEBA) program through authorities under the Export Development Act. These actions were taken to ensure that EDC could act in the national interest and rapidly deliver a high volume of emergency assistance to Canadian businesses.

Cost estimates for CEBA loan collections have not yet been finalized. EDC will continue following its procurement practices in accordance with trade agreement obligations and commits to providing details of all Accenture contracts as Parliament requests them.

EDC, as Canada’s export credit agency, would not have been able to deliver CEBA without vendor assistance. Accenture had already been onboarded as one of its technology providers prior to EDC being directed to deliver CEBA. A complex, competitive procurement process takes a minimum of 6-8 months and, given the urgent nature of the CEBA program, would not have allowed EDC to deliver at the speed required.

The Hon. the Speaker: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Gold, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson, that, for the remainder of the current session and notwithstanding any provision of the Rules, when the Senate sits on a Thursday, it stand adjourned at the later of 6 p.m. or the end of Government Business, as if that time were, for all purposes, the ordinary time of adjournment provided for in rule 3-4.

Are senators ready for the question?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the opportunity to clarify the intent and the consequences of the motion that I’m asking the Senate to consider and vote on.

I will address the question of privilege. Thank you, though, for your invitation. In passing, I hope that I clarify certain things, but I really think it’s appropriate — since a question of privilege was raised — to respectfully register my view that no privilege of any senator has been infringed by the motion before us.

The leadership representatives of the organized groups and caucuses meet regularly to discuss many matters, and in particular, how government legislation shall proceed. That is my primary responsibility, and I convene those meetings for those purposes. In such a case — and we met, and I’ll come to the rationales for the suggestions that were made to me by others for considering how we could manage some of the challenges that many of you are facing on Thursdays — we brought forward a motion for the consideration of the Senate as a whole. It is simply not the case that deals by the leaders bind those who are either in the groups or not affiliated with any groups. The issue before us is whether the Senate as a whole supports or not the motion that is before you. No one is bound by the deals that I may make with Senators Plett, Saint-Germain, Cordy or Tannas in matters like the one before us.

Second, non-government business is a staple and an important part of what we do in the Senate. Just look at the Order Paper. Forgive me for imperfect mathematics, but I believe there are over 75 Senate public bills on the Order Paper. When you add to that motions and inquiries, it is hard to deny that a significant part of what we do and the contribution we try to make is in areas of non-government business.

I mention that, Your Honour, because this order, if it’s approved, affects all senators in all groups. They may not necessarily be happy to have time somewhat limited, though not taken away, for non-government business on Thursdays. If the motion is passed, it will affect all senators because the majority of senators so decreed, and I do not believe in circumstances like that the privileges of senators can be said to be infringed when collectively we have decided to change the rules for the purposes — and what are the purposes?

The purposes are to address a real challenge for those of you — not me personally, who has it easy because I’m two hours by car from Montreal — to get home in a timely fashion because of the decreasing number of flights available and the increasing challenges and unpredictability of those flights. Therefore, it was proposed around the leadership table to find an equitable way to at least give some predictability to those of you who have to make those arrangements and often find yourselves stuck, with no ability to get home, with all of the costs, personal and financial, that may accrue.

This motion simply proposes that the Senate rises at the later of six o’clock or the end of Government Business. Today being Thursday, we’re going to be doing non-government business, as we have been doing many Thursdays and we may continue to do many Thursdays. To be sure, there will come a time, as there always is, towards the end of the fall, as we approach the break for the holidays, and, of course, in June, when we will be consumed with government business. That will probably take us well into the evenings on Thursdays, if not many other nights. But under those circumstances, as we know from past experience, time runs out for non-government business in any event.

In conclusion, thank you for raising the question and for underlying the impact that a motion like this will have on all of us who have non-government business that we want to advance. Again, I submit that no privilege has been breached, that this is a classic example of the Senate being responsible for its own affairs. I do hope after your ruling, Your Honour, that we can bring this to a vote and the Senate shall decide. Thank you, Your Honour.