Senator Housakos: The Trudeau government’s inaction always speaks volumes. The fact is that Hamas is a designated terrorist organization in Canada — isn’t it, Senator Gold? — yet, we have Hamas operatives in this country waving terrorist flags on our streets without fear of reprisal from authorities. So even if we did list the IRGC in actual terms, it’s not like anyone in this government is prepared to do anything about it; isn’t that true, Senator Gold? If it is not true, explain to me where I’m wrong. Are you okay with having Hamas operate on campuses, recruiting —

Senator Martin: Yes.

Senator Martin: I don’t see it as arbitrary. Only NWAC and CAP were included to have a guaranteed seat in the House. This is the history of the bill and what happened in the other place.

There are so many organizations. I’m not taking away from any of the others as to what they do and how important they are, but CAP is a national organization that has done a lot of work and it was accepted by the committee in the other place. That’s why I’m focusing on CAP and no other groups, which I could have. I don’t know how I would choose because there are so many that do such good work.

I think this will be the challenge for the council, even after we adopt this bill, namely, what will the makeup of the board be? I chose CAP specifically because of what happened in the other place.

Senator Martin: I can’t answer that question specifically, senator. As I said, I am basing it on the testimony that we heard and the information that I gathered. I was on their website, and I have met with their leadership. Like I said, they were included in the House. That’s why I brought it forward. That’s what I can say to your question.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. I do not know the specifics of the conversation, but I am assured that they’re in constant dialogue. Canada’s commitment to international law in its international affairs is well known, and I have every confidence that forms part of those conversations.

Senator Martin: Yes.

Senator Boyer: Thank you. I am curious as to where the hundreds of thousands of members come from with CAP. My experience with CAP was when I first became a senator, I asked them to come and sit with me and talk to me about their membership. They did. The question that I had was, “Who are your members and where are they?” The answer I got was, “I don’t know.”

I’m curious to know where that 850,000 comes from because, as a Métis, they don’t represent me and they don’t represent any of my family or anybody I know.

Senator Martin: Yes, exactly. There are five national organizations. The government kept the Native Women’s Association of Canada, or NWAC, but removed CAP, and it’s not clear what criteria they were using. That inconsistency was noted. As I said earlier, based on the testimony that we heard and the history of this bill, I believe that CAP should be included.

Senator Batters: Will Senator Clement take a question?

Senator Batters: Thank you. Senator Clement, wasn’t it the case that for this bill generally, we didn’t hear any data, period? I think you probably have to concede that the government didn’t have any data to justify the provisions here, nor was there any on this particular element.

Senator Gold: Thank you, senator. The government has committed over $6 billion in funding since 2016 to address these long-standing housing gaps in First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities. Recently the government made investments in First Nations housing, committing $2.4 billion over the next five years to support closing the housing gap in First Nations. More needs to be done, but the government is doing as much as it can at this juncture.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, there have been consultations and there is an agreement to allow a photographer in the Senate Chamber to photograph the introduction of a new senator.

Is it agreed, honourable senators?

Senator Omidvar: I’m encouraged by your statement that the Government of Canada is in dialogue with the Government of Pakistan. The forced return of refugees, also known as refoulement is against international human rights, humanitarian and customary law.

In the conversations with the Government of Pakistan, what is Canada doing to push countries — not just Pakistan but others as well, I imagine — to meet international legal obligations, including the principle of non-refoulement and to stop the crackdown against Afghan refugees?

Senator McCallum: Yes.

Senator Quinn: Thank you very much. During the committee’s work, did any members — CAP is purporting to represent whomever they represent — but the people who are represented, did they email? Usually in these situations, we get advocacy from people who are part of the organization. So did any of that happen? Were there any emails or letters that committee members or you received that said, “Hey, I’m part of that organization, and they do represent me.” Was there any of that at all?

Senator McCallum: I’m not a regular member of the Indigenous Peoples Committee. I didn’t receive any mail. I did go out and ask those representing missing and murdered women. They said they come to our meetings, but they haven’t done anything. I have gone to Sixties Scoop; they don’t represent them. I have asked people in Manitoba, “What do you know about CAP?” and I have not heard anything.

Maybe other members received information, but I didn’t. I did talk with two of the administrators, and they’ve never provided information to me. Thank you.

Senator Gold: Thank you.

Senator Boisvenu: I would like another five minutes, please.

Senator Boisvenu: Coming from you? Of course.

Senator Simons: Could I ask for time to just answer that one question? I think, then, that is probably good.