Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu introduced Bill S-281, An Act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (parole review).

(Bill read first time.)

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. The government is managing the economy in a prudent and responsible way. Indeed, without having the figures at hand, I do believe the evidence shows that, in fact, government spending is down. I would not assume that the use of outside experts to advise the government is necessarily a waste. I have every expectation that the government will continue to find ways in which to reduce spending and to use its own resources and outside resources in the most responsible way possible.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

(On motion of Senator Boisvenu, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.)

Hon. Elizabeth Marshall: My question is also for Senator Gold.

Senator Gold, last month, the Auditor General of Canada released two reports on the government’s aging information technology systems. Here are some of the things she said. She said only 38% of government’s 7,500 IT applications are considered healthy. She said work has not proceeded for 65% of approximately 4,500 applications earmarked for modernization.

Departments and agencies are maintaining old and outdated IT applications and relying on old and outdated IT infrastructure. Personnel with knowledge of and expertise on outdated and unsupported technology are diminishing. Some systems no longer have vendor support. There is no strategy or plan to modernize these old IT systems.

Given the magnitude of this critical problem, a whole-of-government approach is required. Can you tell us what the government intends to do to address this problem?

Hon. David Richards: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform the Senate that pursuant to the orders adopted by the Senate on February 10, 2022, and November 2, 2023, the Standing Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on November 8, 2023, its seventh report (Interim) entitled The Time is Now: Granting equitable access to psychedelic-assisted therapies and I move that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.

(On motion of Senator Richards, report placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.)

Hon. Rosemary Moodie: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the report of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association concerning the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe Parliamentary Assembly’s Winter Meeting, held in Vienna, Austria, from February 23 to 24, 2023.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Government leader, the Trudeau government told Canadians that it would somehow find $15 billion in savings this year, despite not once following through on their other promises to find savings. In fact, the Trudeau government did just what Canadians have come to expect from them. They spent even more money, and they spent it on consultants.

KPMG was given a contract worth just under $670,000 to tell the Trudeau government how to spend less money — hear this — on consultants. Unbelievable. This would be a joke if it didn’t involve so many hard-earned taxpayers’ dollars.

Leader, I know you don’t like to hear it, but every day Prime Minister Trudeau shows Canadians that he’s not worth the cost. How does your government possibly justify this waste?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you, Senator Marshall. You put your finger on a real and serious problem, a problem that this government is confronting and, indeed, previous governments have confronted. Regrettably, colleagues, those of you who have worked in business or in IT in large organizations will find the story rather familiar.

Spending lots of money — and it always costs lots of money to update IT systems — is never something of particular appeal to voters, much less to governments seeking to deliver the goods to the electors in areas where electors feel the need.

As a result, generations of governments have regrettably not invested sufficiently in the infrastructure. We have reached the point now where — as you have properly pointed out, and it’s only the tip of the iceberg — the problem is significant.

This government is seized with this problem. I can tell you that with some confidence. It will make every effort within the budgetary constraints imposed on us to at least take steps forward to address this problem.

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Climate change is causing frequent and intense extreme weather events as well as increasing temperatures. The most recent examples are the resulting emergencies we experienced this past year with wildfires and flooding.

As the debate on climate change gallops along, we tend to lose sight of where we started and where we started this discussion. I want to go back to first principles as a starting point, primarily for Canadians who are watching us. What are the most serious climate change issues, and what are governments in Canada and elsewhere doing about them? What do we need to be doing as a society?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. This is an important issue and part of Canada’s commitment to advance economic reconciliation by supporting Indigenous businesses through a variety of means, including federal procurement policies.

It’s premature for me to be able to measure the success of this program, but I can say that as of March 24, 2022, PSPC has awarded 42 contracts worth over $197 million to self-identified Indigenous businesses in response to the pandemic and issues that flowed from that. I am also advised that the government does expect that all departments and agencies will meet or exceed the 5% target no later than the end of fiscal 2024-25.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Marshall, please —

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Marshall, thank you. Senator Gold, your response.

Hon. Tony Loffreda: Senator Gold, since August 2021, federal departments must ensure that a minimum of 5% of the total value of contracts are held by Indigenous businesses. I have explored this issue at the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance as part of our review of the government’s spending priorities. I have reviewed many departmental results reports, and the 5% minimum target is rarely met. For instance, Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, is struggling and hopes to increase these contracts from a projected 2.1% to 5% in just two years. That’s a big undertaking.

As our chair often reminds us, our committee shares a common denominator with the government, which is a desire for transparency, accountability, predictability and reliability for all Canadians, when we review federal spending. Two years into this directive, can you speak to us about the success of this measure?

Hon. Chantal Petitclerc: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

[English]

Senator Gold, most Canadians enjoy their flights while watching a movie, working or resting. Wheelchair users spend their flights stressed, not knowing whether they will have a wheelchair when they land.

Stephanie Cadieux, Canada’s Chief Accessibility Officer, realized after arriving in Vancouver recently that her wheelchair had been left in Toronto. Rodney Hodgins lives with spastic cerebral palsy. He had to lower himself to the floor and drag himself off a plane because the airline didn’t provide him with his wheelchair. A few weeks ago, I had a less dramatic but equally frustrating experience boarding a flight.

The adoption of the Accessible Canada Act in 2019 promised to make Canada a barrier-free country and made all persons with disabilities optimistic. Clearly, however, airlines are not conforming effectively with the Accessible Canada Act. What is the government doing about that?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question and for reminding those in the chamber who have perhaps not visited Nunavut, as I have, of the very different circumstances with regard to fuel, energy, food security and the like that residents of Nunavut face on a day‑to‑day basis.

I don’t have the answer to your question, but I will bring to it the attention of the minister. I have every confidence that the government will consider how to adapt the program for the specific circumstances that are unique to the North.

Senator D. Patterson: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Senator Gold, as you know, the reason behind this tax break was to give folks more time to transition to clean energy. I’m not aware, though, of a single heat pump in Nunavut, nor are we anywhere close to being able to provide reliable, redundant, clean energy options to Nunavummiut.

So, Senator Gold, I’d also like to ask you this question: How will your government ensure that, after three years, Nunavummiut don’t just find themselves paying more money, with no viable alternative energy option?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): First of all, let’s just agree that it’s unacceptable. Those who suffer from issues of mobility or accessibility deserve to be treated with dignity and have the same opportunities to be so treated as those of us who are not subject to those constraints.

I’m going to bring this to the attention of the relevant minister in the hope that I will get some more information, and I’ll do that with dispatch.

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: Senator Gold, last week, Prime Minister Trudeau introduced a three-year reprieve from the carbon tax spent on home heating fuel. However, regarding the supplies in Nunavut, because it’s a backstopped jurisdiction, it’s complicated. We buy our fuel in bulk ahead of the winter, meaning that some of that home heating fuel now being used has already been taxed. Approximately 60% of the population lives in social housing, meaning it would be the Government of Nunavut both paying those costs and getting the money back, not your average resident.

So my question to you is this: How is your government going to roll this program out in Nunavut to ensure that we are getting properly reimbursed for any carbon tax already paid and Nunavut residents feel less of a pinch through this tax break?

Hon. Mary Coyle: Senator Gold, last month, our Senators for Climate Solutions group met with experts on climate adaptation. Ryan Ness of the Canadian Climate Institute applauded Canada’s National Adaptation Strategy while pointing out some shortcomings.

Senator Gold, could you tell us when the government will create an accompanying plan to measure and report on progress and create accountability for implementation of this important national climate adaptation plan?