44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 20, 2023
- 05:24:54 p.m.
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The group of 100 women, and everyone we work with, are simply waiting for you to pass the bill. That's all they want. The group still exists and is wondering whether there is any progress and where things stand right now.
If you approve this bill, you will be giving them hope for freedom, being able to live their lives and feel free. We have the right to be free and to have protection. You alone can do it. We have no power. All we have is the ability to come and ask you today to support this bill so that we can live freely and safely. Only you can do it.
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- 05:25:44 p.m.
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Thank you very much.
We're now going to pass it over to Leah for the final round.
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- 05:25:48 p.m.
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Thank you so much.
Stories are powerful, but I know they're hard to share. I just want to honour all the witnesses today for sharing their stories.
I really want to focus on a couple of things. One of the issues I have—I know you spoke a lot about it, Martine—is about the need for therapy for men.
Actually I'm going to go back, and then I'm going to follow up with that.
In terms of policing, we're dealing with this with the Red Dress.... Would you agree with me that, particularly when women come forward with these acts of violence, they're often minimized by policing or wherever they're reporting? Would you agree?
Diane or Martine can answer that.
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- 05:26:50 p.m.
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You're absolutely right.
Among other things, I remember the first time I reported an assault. I was asked whether he had hit me. I said that he hit me here, there, and that he had raped me. What more did they want? What about internal injuries? Yes, I was physically struck, but it doesn't always start that way. Things escalate, and that needs to be taken into account. When I went to the police station to tell them what was happening, they pointed out that there were no signs of injury. Come on, what kind of an answer is that? There are injuries, internal ones.
I often went to the police station to report and make a complaint, because my spouse never complied with his conditions. I remember on one occasion when a policewoman asked me what he had done. I was on edge because it had just happened. I said that he had grabbed me in a particular way, and I tried to demonstrate it on her. She told me not to touch her. All I wanted to do was show her what and how I had just experienced. I wasn't actually going to act it out. I did it automatically, and ended up being rebuked by the policewoman.
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- 05:28:24 p.m.
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That brings me to another point, because I have limited time and I think what you're sharing is pretty critical. Would say that you don't get a proper response and often the response is not trauma-informed?
You're saying you experienced violence and you were in shock, and the response by the authorities was often not trauma-informed by what you were going through as a victim of violence. Would you agree with that?
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- 05:28:52 p.m.
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- 05:28:55 p.m.
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Every time we report them, we're asked what evidence we have. We never have evidence even if we call them 10 times to report what's happening to us.
The one thing we really want is the bracelet. We know that people won't always listen to us. We know that nothing can be perfect. And yet I'd rather have something imperfect than no protection at all, which is what we have now. We have nothing at all.
The more factors added to the system, the more consideration we will be given and the more people will understand just how serious it is. The more evidence we have, the more we will be believed and heard.
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- 05:29:34 p.m.
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We'll also get more respect.
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- 05:29:34 p.m.
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I'm running out of time.
I think you are right about violent men. Treatment is really important. Right now, a lot of the response is to put them in jail. They get out of jail, and they're more violent and more angry. They haven't had therapy. I think you need to deal with the roots.
Do you think the way it's currently dealt with in the criminal justice system, in terms of putting people in jail without proper therapy, is ineffective? Do you think it would be better to put them...? You were talking about a treatment place where people can deal with trauma and violence.
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- 05:30:16 p.m.
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A therapy centre is certainly better than prison. In prison, abusers are there with other violent men. They collude with one another. The whole time they are there, their brain is working overtime, thinking about where we are, the people we're with and what we're doing. When they get out, they are even more violent
If instead of sending abusers to prison, they were first sent to a centre for three months of intensive therapy, their anger would decrease. There would be conversations, they'd be given resources that would certainly calm them down. Prison does nothing but increase violence. That's always been the case.
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- 05:30:49 p.m.
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Would you say that many folks that get involved in the justice system...? Do you think that more underlying mental health issues need to be dealt with?
If you deal with the underlying mental health issues, you would deal with the violence. Would you agree with that?
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- 05:31:04 p.m.
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Let's talk about mental health. I'm an expert, as a caseworker. When I go to the courthouse, the judge listens to me and takes note of what I've said. On the other hand when the abused woman speaks, the judge doesn't listen and doesn't hear. It's one-on-one. We caseworkers are the ones who go to court to explain the work we've done with the victim. The judge listens and starts to take us seriously.
We watch the judge all the time when the victim is speaking. Honestly. I spoke about it to Senator Boisvenu before coming here. When I was in court in Lac-Saint-Jean, I said in colloquial French to the judge, "il l'a neyée dans le bain" and all she had to say about it was that you shouldn't say "neyée", and that the right word is "noyée".
When we tell you that the system doesn't listen to us and that we need you, it's because we really need your help if we are to be taken seriously.
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- 05:32:03 p.m.
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Unbelievable. I'm sitting up here just in shock.
We're actually at the end of our testimony today, although I believe we could probably listen to this group of people—you ladies and Phil and everybody else—for hours on end.
Thank you so much for the incredible testimony that the three of you have brought today.
Thank you very much, Senator Boisvenu, for bringing forward this bill and bringing forward witnesses who have this experience.
Before we leave I have two really quick things. I need to seek approval for a budget of $17,750 for Bill S-205. Does everyone agree?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: Perfect. We are spending that money. If we need to discuss further, we can schedule committee business, but I would be looking for any amendments that you would want for Bill S-205 to be in by next Wednesday, November 29 at noon. That's where we were going. Does that sound good, everybody?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: Seeing no further business, I would like to thank Diane, Martine and Philip so much for being here. If there's additional information that you want to send in, we would love to hear it. Thank you very much.
Today's meeting is adjourned.
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