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Nov/25/21 10:36:23 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member is right. Both the government and the House have major priorities. The number one priority is the people who are being affected by COVID‑19 and who need immediate help. That is what we should be debating now, not the science or other things that are so obvious. In hospitals, frontline workers are working so hard every day to protect all Canadians. However, it is easy to threaten these people at the hospital, making it harder for them to do their jobs, so we need to address this issue. There are other priorities, such as the ban on conversion therapy, which is essential. This is the real priority for Canadians, and it is an issue that we can work on today if the opposition is willing.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

Nov/25/21 10:37:43 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would simply like to say that no one here is surprised that the Conservative Party is calling into question the vaccines, science, modernity and the new ways of working, such as telework or working remotely. What does surprise me, however, is the fact that the Bloc Québécois is siding with the Conservative Party. I find their about-face rather surprising. Why should we keep the option of a hybrid Parliament open? The reason is that we are in the fourth wave and that the number of cases in Quebec has risen from 400 to 900 a day. Quebec society has adapted, and telework is now part of our lives. It is 2021. Should we not take a precautionary approach here in Parliament? Why does the Leader of the Government in the House think that the Bloc Québécois is now siding with the Conservative Party?

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Hon. Mark Holland

Nov/25/21 10:38:35 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is absolutely clear that the pandemic is not over yet. We are in the midst of the fourth wave, and there may be more. It is very important that members are able to debate subjects such as this, and that includes the most vulnerable members. It is their privilege. In my opinion, it is essential to have a system where the most vulnerable members can vote and participate in committee meetings, question period and all aspects of Parliament. A hybrid system makes that possible. Members who are not vulnerable or who do not have any issues can come to the House. There is no problem with that. They can ask questions in person. The minister will be here for them. What is the problem today? Why are we still having this debate? It is a big waste of time.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Nov/25/21 10:39:41 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is fascinating to me that the government House leader continues to expound upon these rules and regulations when the question remains, does he really know what they are? I want to go back to the fact that on air he says that anybody who is double vaccinated and has COVID can go back to work. That is nonsensical. My question then remains, will the government House leader retract his statements and realize that he has no idea what the rules really are?

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Hon. Mark Holland

Nov/25/21 10:40:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I struggle to understand the question, but I will try to answer it in a couple of ways. First of all, we have rules and regulations that govern this place. One of them is the tie that I wear today. On Thursdays I happen to choose a bow tie, but that is permissible under the rules of this place. I am required to wear a tie to stand in my place. There are many other rules in this place. I am going to be limited in how long I can speak. I am not able to continue speaking for an unlimited time, and some members are excited about that rule. However, let us talk about rules we should really be excited about, the ones that protect our personal safety, the ones that keep this workplace safe. I am not just talking about for members of Parliament. At the end of the day, the members who are here, including you, Madam Speaker, put our names on a ballot. With that, we accept certain risks, but it is really abhorrent to me that the situation of the employees here, the journalists and the pages, who may themselves be vulnerable, is not considered, and that some of the members opposite are unvaccinated. They will not say how many. The member talks about the fact that people who are double vaccinated could work in a workplace. What about them? We do not know how many people are unvaccinated. This is a workplace where we expect people to be vaccinated.

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Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ)

Nov/25/21 10:41:42 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, what my colleague from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie just said was fascinating. He has been taking part in demonstrations all over Montreal for the past two months. I guess that means he checked that all the protesters were vaccinated before showing up. On top of that, this is coming from a francophone. We francophones have had countless problems with the interpretation. Even my Liberal colleagues who are francophone and have participated in committee work must realize this. The IT department and its hard-working staff are not to blame for these problems. These problems are the result of people not having their headsets or the headsets not working properly. Committee work was often delayed because of these technical problems and, once again, it was the francophones who suffered. My friend from Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, who is francophone, does not seem to care at all, just like his francophone friends on the other side of the House. It is a problem, and that is why everyone needs to work here in the House and in committee.

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Hon. Mark Holland

Nov/25/21 10:42:36 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the pandemic is very difficult and we are all very tired. This has been going on for a long time, and I do understand the member's point. However, we must continue to work safely and ensure that everyone is safe, especially in terms of their health. As for the issues with interpretation, I am not stopping the Board of Internal Economy from unequivocally reiterating that the rights of French speakers are essential, as are services for everyone who speaks French. That is quite simple. Unfortunately, my French is not great and I make mistakes. I do, however, understand why we need a good system for everyone who speaks French better than I do.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Nov/25/21 10:43:36 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have been struggling to understand the Bloc Québécois for the past half-hour. At one point, the Bloc said that it supported a hybrid Parliament system, but then it came out against such a system, before changing its mind again for about two months, only to change its mind once again and speak out against implementing the system right away. I do not understand why the Bloc keeps flip-flopping. Their buddies in the Conservative Party are easier to understand, since they do not care about public health measures. However, the Bloc Québécois has had four different positions in the past half-hour. I would like to ask the Leader of the Government in the House to explain why the Bloc Québécois has been flip-flopping on this issue and why it does not seem to understand important public health measures.

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Hon. Mark Holland

Nov/25/21 10:44:31 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I guess the thing I feel at this time is frustration more than anything else: frustration that we are continuing to have this debate. I can guarantee the members opposite that if they take time to talk to their constituents and Canadians, none of them are saying we should spend two days debating whether or not a vaccine mandate is appropriate for this place. All of them would agree that it should have been dealt with by unanimous consent, but here we are, debating if the sky is blue and if dirt is where plants grow. I do not know why we are debating basic science. All we are asking for is a safe workplace where people can come in person if they feel comfortable, or people can continue to use the provisions that worked perfectly well during the pandemic to ensure that we have a safe workplace for everybody who works here.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Nov/25/21 10:45:18 a.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House. The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. Some hon. members: No. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): All those in favour of the motion will please say yea. Some hon. members: Yea. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): All those opposed will please say nay. Some hon. members: Nay. The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): In my opinion the nays have it. And five or more members having risen: The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Call in the members.

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The Speaker

Nov/25/21 11:29:25 a.m.
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While we are waiting for the vote count, I want to point out that Robert Benoit did a flawless job. He recognized every member in the language of their choice. Well done.

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The Speaker

Nov/25/21 11:30:22 a.m.
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I declare the motion carried.

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Ms. Elizabeth May

Nov/25/21 11:30:33 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I regret rising, but I must. During debate today there was an unacceptable level of heckling that was rude and unbecoming of parliamentarians. When I was voting, I was being booed by opposition members and that is not acceptable. Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

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The Speaker

Nov/25/21 11:31:09 a.m.
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I want to thank the hon. member for her observation and her point of order. Resuming debate, the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes.

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Mr. Michael Barrett (Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC)

Nov/25/21 11:31:27 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to conclude my remarks with respect to this motion. While we heard great enthusiasm from the government benches and their coalition colleague, the independent member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, I would expect, of course, nothing but silence and peak attention from the government benches as we discuss this important motion. We have a situation following nearly 20 months of real change in the way we have had to do things in this place, and now the government is looking to do what it has done many times over that 20 months, that is, to limit accountability and hide from its responsibilities to answer to Canadians, to answer to the opposition and of course to answer to the media. While Canadians have returned to their workplaces and while they follow the best public health advice, we too, as parliamentarians, continue to do the same. However, what is different here? Unlike most Canadians, the Liberals are looking to pull a fast one and take advantage of Canadians while they are still settling into a new way of doing things during the pandemic, a new way of going to work, with masking and the like. They are looking for an opportunity to hide from accountability. While the rest of Canadian society looks to get back to a new normal, they are looking to do anything but. We saw it all during the previous Parliament. There were technical difficulties that would not allow them to participate. We saw ministers on the Hill who had travelled to Ottawa but would not come into the chamber. We have seen them avoid the scrutiny of media by making sure they did not have to face any of them in person, getting out of their chauffeur-driven cars to go into their offices, and going back to their chauffeur-driven cars and then home. They never had to face a scrum and opposition politician in person or, heaven forbid, a Canadian on the street. What we are looking for is simply a return to normal. What would I suggest as an alternative to the government proposal? Should a member, heaven forbid, fall ill, we should revive an age-old, time-tested reliable practice and allow members to pair with another member. If there is care and concern on the other side for a member on this side, which I believe there is, offer the pairing process again. We have an opportunity to show Canadians that we are willing to get back to work. The time has come. Here we are operating safely. We are committed to that process, and we are looking for the government to be committed to a process that is accountable to Canadians and truly accountable to the responsibilities that members were elected to uphold. It looks like I do not have any time left, but I do look forward to taking questions from my colleagues. I hope that should this motion pass, members continue to come to this chamber to be accountable to Canadians through questions in this place, accountable at committee and accountable to the media.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.)

Nov/25/21 11:35:41 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I found the interventions by the member, from both the other day and today, to be quite interesting. He even reflected in his comments that Canadians are finding “a new way of going to work”. That is exactly what this is about. This is about giving flexibility to members to ensure they can continue to participate in the event they are not able to come here because, one, they perhaps have contracted COVID-19 or, two, they have been in close proximity to someone who has, and they are using their better discretion to not be in close contact with other people. What I do find most offensive about his comments is the fact that he said that this is somehow a form of limited accountability. Perhaps the member for Carleton's one-liners are not quite as effective if the room is not as full, but can the member explain how this limits accountability when ministers were here to answer questions?

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Nov/25/21 11:36:49 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, first of all, while I am sorry to hear that the member was offended, I do not believe I said anything offensive. What I did say is that ministers are accountable to this House and to Canadians. What we saw in the last Parliament was disgraceful. They would not even walk across the street or come downstairs to sit in their chairs in an empty House and be accountable to Canadians. During the member's comments, he said if someone contracts COVID-19, we need to make them work from home. No, they should be recovering. The member who is ill should be paired with another member in this place so we can balance things out, as we have done for hundreds of years. That is what we are asking for.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Nov/25/21 11:37:45 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, in more than 150 years, we have had to deal with a pandemic only once. In the past 154 years, however, there have certainly been people who were sick with the flu or pneumonia who were contagious, and they stayed at home to take care of themselves without being forced to work remotely. What is the difference now? Why do we have to adopt a hybrid model when the majority of us are vaccinated, are familiar with the health measures and know that it is important to take care of ourselves when we or one of our loved ones are sick?

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Nov/25/21 11:38:30 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely correct. When members of this place are ill, just as when any Canadian is unwell, they should not go to work. This has been done for so long. Why we need to literally reinvent how this place operates is beyond me. We have a system in place. I have referenced it several times. We can pair, and it does balance things out. We do need to return to how things have been done in the past and this is a very simple way to do it while also allowing accountability, especially keeping in mind that public health guidelines are being strictly adhered to.

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Mr. Daniel Blaikie (Elmwood—Transcona, NDP)

Nov/25/21 11:39:22 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, currently members of the Manitoba legislature are sitting virtually. The leader of the official opposition there, despite being double vaccinated, has contracted COVID and is participating in question period and other deliberations of the legislature virtually. Does the member feel that the government in Manitoba is jeopardizing democracy in Manitoba?

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