SoVote

Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 37

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 28, 2022 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 37 - Feb/28/22
Mr. James Maloney
  • Feb/28/22 10:01:53 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I genuinely want to thank the member for that question because one of the most powerful moments in question period for me today was when the first question posed by the Bloc was not “Why haven't you done this? Why haven't you done that?” It was “What can we do to help? What can we do to work together to help stand with Ukraine?” That was very powerful, so I thank her for the question tonight. The answer is to talk to us, to support us, to give us ideas. There is no monopoly on ideas. I ask that not only of her and her party but also of all members in this House. We have to leave no stone unturned.
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Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, NDP)
  • Feb/28/22 10:02:52 p.m.
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Madam Chair, we have heard today how the government has acted on things like automatically extending work visas and student visas for Ukrainians here in Canada. Again, we hear of the special relationship between Ukraine and Canada. We have so many Ukrainian Canadians. It is the biggest diaspora in the world and yet we do not offer visa-free travel to Ukrainians whereas 141 other countries do. I am wondering if the member would consider proposing that to his party so that, at least temporarily, Ukrainians could travel to Canada in this very uncertain time.
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Mr. James Maloney
  • Feb/28/22 10:03:43 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the short answer is yes, I will. I have. These issues have been discussed by me and all of my colleagues. As the member knows, tomorrow is the first day of Irish Heritage Month and that is important to me. Ireland did just that last week. It is an issue that we are talking about. It is something I would like to see done.
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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue, Lib.)
  • Feb/28/22 10:04:13 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is an honour for all of us tonight to come together and discuss this. I hesitate to use the word “debate”. It has been a very good discussion. We have seen a free exchange of ideas across the aisle. It is a testament to the fact that this issue does unify us. Even in war, we find inspiration. We find so many examples of inspiration to draw upon in Ukraine, the way that its people and its leadership have stood up against the tyranny and carnage of the Russian regime and its president, Vladimir Putin. The people of Russia, it needs to be said, have shown enormous strength and courage. Let us make an important distinction between the regime of Putin and the Russian people. Thousands have been arrested. Thousands have been put into jail, and who knows what fate befalls them, but that courage needs to be recognized. Canada has acted as it must. Sanctions against the Russian elite have been introduced, including against its president. Canada has come together with other countries, taking a leading role in helping bring countries together to block Russian banks from the SWIFT international payment system. Canada has also played a leading role in helping to bring countries together to support placing sanctions on Russia's central bank, and that is having an effect already. Canada is providing arms in the form of anti-tank weapons and ammunition, and as we saw yesterday, Canadian airspace has been closed to Russian aircraft. We have contributed, but we must do more. We must do more for two primary reasons. Obviously, the bond between Canada and Ukraine is incredibly strong. There are many reasons for that, but I think migration is the key factor. Ukrainians have helped to build this country. There is no other way to put it. That is true particularly in western Canada, but it is also true in Ontario and it is true throughout the country. I want to thank the Ukrainian community of London for its advocacy at this time. It has been a true honour to work with them to raise issues of concern in the past few weeks, and I will continue to do that. I know that members in this House feel the same way about their community leadership in their respective cities and towns. I want to also point to the fact that Ukraine is at the front line. A colleague across the way who spoke about 20 minutes ago emphasized that Ukraine is now at the front line. He used those words “front line”. I go for that. Ukraine is indeed the front line of the battle against authoritarianism. It is the front line of where democracy has been put into question. We have a choice to make as western democracies and as elected representatives within western democracies on how this is going to be confronted. Do we want to live in a world defined by the whim of a despot, or will we stand up, collectively, as individuals in this House, as democratic countries who believe in the rule of law, who believe in sovereignty, who believe in the rights-based and rules-based order that has defined the world and its international relations since World War II? That is precisely what is at threat. That is not hyperbole. That is not an exaggeration. It is the reality that faces us. The need for democracy extends, though, beyond simply cherishing it as an inherent value. It is the great stabilizer in our politics not just domestically but internationally as well. It is a truism. It remains a truism that no two democracies have fought a war against one another. There is a whole theory around this called democratic peace theory. I only have about 30 seconds left, so I will not go into that. I can do it another time. What I will say is that democracy as a stabilizer needs to be taken seriously. For that reason, I think we ought to look at putting more funding into our defence, of course, and helping promote democracy abroad. I was in Ukraine a few years ago and saw the great work that Canada has done in working with NGOs on the ground to promote democracy. I look forward to questions.
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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)
  • Feb/28/22 10:09:01 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I am hearing overwhelmingly from people in my riding, those of Ukrainian origin and those who are not, about how much they want to help with the situation on the ground. There are three issues they have raised with me that I want to put to the parliamentary secretary. The first is that they want it to be easier for them to send money to friends and relatives in Ukraine. Sometimes it can be very cumbersome to send money to family members overseas. I wonder if, as the parliamentary secretary for revenue, the hon. member could commit to looking into that issue and facilitating those remittances. Another issue is that Canadians who have purchased supplies or donated supplies that could be useful for people in Ukraine want assistance in getting those over to Ukraine. Is the government in the process of sending supplies and is it able to assist with the transportation of donated goods? The final issue is clarity for volunteers, those who want to volunteer and go over to help. Are they able to do that? What kind of support could they receive from the government? I wonder if the parliamentary secretary could comment on those three issues.
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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos
  • Feb/28/22 10:10:05 p.m.
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Madam Chair, to that last point, obviously it is a dangerous time. That goes without saying. Individuals will have to think very carefully about what they do. I know there has been enormous interest expressed by individuals not just in Canada but throughout other democracies in going to Ukraine and assisting in the form of a volunteer force. We saw something quite similar materialize during the Spanish Civil War, among other examples, but that is the one that stands out. If individuals wish to make that kind of contribution, that is up to them, but of course I emphasize the point that it is a dangerous situation and individuals have to think responsibly about their own safety. On the other two points that were raised, I would be happy to speak with the hon. member. He did not point to any specifics, but through an email or a chat I would be happy to hear more about the identified challenges that he points to and have a conversation.
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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)
  • Feb/28/22 10:11:03 p.m.
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Madam Chair, today, a constituent in my riding of Vancouver East contacted our office. They have not been able to bring their loved ones to Canada. They have been stuck in the immigration system for more than two years because of the backlog in applications. Now that they are in this situation, obviously there is urgency. The quickest way for individuals to get to safety with their loved ones is visa-free access. Why is the government not proceeding with that? What can we do as parliamentarians to help the government move in that direction and expeditiously bring about visa-free access for Ukrainians?
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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos
  • Feb/28/22 10:11:48 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the question of visa-free travel can be looked at and considered. I also point out to the hon. member that the government, in fact, has acted proactively, going back to January, by putting in place a plan to ensure that individuals in Ukraine who had applied to Canada for work permits, for example, would be given support to have their applications approved. Individuals in Canada who are on a temporary resident visa, for example, or students will be able to stay longer for obvious reasons. I think that all of us in the House look at those measures as entirely reasonable. We will continue to work together, I hope, to put to the government even more ideas about what can be done to ensure a reasonable approach that guides the way forward but one that has the well-being of all Ukrainians in mind at the forefront.
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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)
  • Feb/28/22 10:12:38 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I asked this earlier but I would like the opinion of the hon. parliamentary secretary. Will the government be considering going after the personal assets of the Russian oligarchs, including massive homes and mansions and yachts? I know where one mansion is. It is in my riding and I would like it to be seized.
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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos
  • Feb/28/22 10:12:59 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I always appreciate the passion of the member, especially on this matter. I think what Canada can do and ought to do, and I speak here as a member of Parliament but I join colleagues in this, is join other countries and explore exactly what has been suggested here. There is no doubt that the network of oligarchs in Russia has many assets abroad. If there are ways to address that and if there are ways to seize those assets and ensure they are not put to use by oligarchs who have surrounded the president to the detriment of the Russian people, then countries can discuss that and work among themselves for a resolution.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Montarville, BQ)
  • Feb/28/22 10:13:51 p.m.
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Madam Chair, God knows how much I wanted to believe in peace. I still believe in it today, because there is no other way out besides peace. We must remain hopeful that these rather strange negotiations currently taking place will bring an end to this conflict, and the suffering it is causing, as quickly as possible. We must remember that during the previous take-note debate on the situation in Ukraine, our party and the government had some differences of opinion about the imminence of the conflict. Of course, those differences of opinion did nothing to prevent the conflict from breaking out. Ukraine has been unfairly attacked by Russia. I told the Minister of Foreign Affairs that if conflict were to break out, the government could count on the full support of the Bloc and that we would stand in solidarity in terms of our desire to punish Russia and show our full support for the people of Ukraine. There is solidarity among us in the House, exemplary solidarity among the allies, and solidarity with the Ukrainian people, whose courage and resilience are truly admirable. On Saturday, some colleagues and I met with Ukrainian colleagues. We spent a few minutes with some of them. One of our colleagues told us that the president and the deputies would stay in the capital. It would have been so easy for those parliamentarians to go back to their constituencies, to return to their families and the people they represent, but this is symbolic of how courageous Ukrainians are in the face of adversity, in the face of this unequal combat they are confronted with. We simply have no choice but to support the Ukrainian people, first because this country is home to the world's third-largest Ukrainian community. These are people we connect with daily, who have family over there. We share and feel their anguish, their sadness, their concern. We have no choice but to support the Ukrainian people because they have been subjected to an unfair attack that is also an attack against democracy, against freedom, against us. Finally, we have no choice because the courage that the Ukrainian people are showing compels us to support them. We, by which I mean the Government of Canada and the west in general, have so far deployed a battery of measures to punish Russia, but also to punish Belarus, which has been complicit in the invasion of Ukraine. I mentioned today that we might want to take that a bit further. As I said earlier, the Russians would not be at the gates of Kyiv if President Lukachenko had not allowed Russia to use his territory as a base to attack Ukraine from the north. I have to say that I was, quite frankly, impressed by the speed and vigour of the response by western countries. I must admit that I had doubts. In the early hours of the invasion, we were hearing some reactions from Europe. Certain countries were saying that some of their companies should be excluded from sanctions, and that if Russian banks were banned from SWIFT they would have a hard time conducting transactions. It was starting to look like there might be a chink in the armour, which was worrying, but the west pulled itself together and the allies took action. We have to admire how quickly and strongly countries have responded, but there is still a lot to do. I heard our Green Party colleague talk about certain oligarchs. Leonid Volkov, who is Alexei Navalny's chief of staff, appeared before the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade and told us that we needed to take action. He gave us a list of oligarchs who should be sanctioned. Several of those on the list have still not been sanctioned. I am pleased to hear my colleagues in government tell us that everything is on the table. If the government decides to move forward with this, it will continue to have our support, because we must do more. We cannot tolerate this unacceptable aggression towards Ukraine. We must definitely provide all our support to the Ukrainian people, as we have started doing. This means providing military equipment, non-lethal as well as lethal. Ukrainians need it, as they are facing the second largest army on the planet. We are also talking about foodstuffs, drugs and medical equipment. We must rise to the challenge and give Ukrainians what they need. We must also welcome Ukrainian refugees. There are currently half a million of them gathered in neighbouring countries, and they are asking for help. The leader of the Bloc Québécois pointed out that if we can accept people at Roxham Road without a visa, why should we continue to enforce entrance formalities for Ukrainian refugees and make them complete all the formalities for receiving a visa? We must remove these requirements and make it easier for Ukrainians who wish to find refuge in Canada, temporarily or permanently, to enter our country. We have to cut Russian propaganda off at the knees by removing Russia Today from Canadian airwaves. Speaking of Russian propaganda, the Russian people need to be informed. I cannot help but be amazed at the thousands of people in the streets of Moscow, St. Petersburg and other Russian cities risking arrest the moment they hit the streets to protest this war against a people that did nothing to deserve it, a people whose destiny they have shared for over 75 years. Many Russians do not understand, and many of those who do not understand are speaking out against what they feel is unacceptable. How many Russian families will be bereaved? How many soldiers' bodies will be returned to their families as casualties of an unjust conflict? As I said today, there may be hope in the Russia that is making itself heard today despite pressure from the powers that be. In addition, as we heard from—
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The Deputy Chair
  • Feb/28/22 10:23:56 p.m.
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I have to interrupt the member because his time is up. The hon. member will be able to conclude his remarks when he answers questions. Question and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion.
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Mr. Irek Kusmierczyk (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion, Lib.)
  • Feb/28/22 10:24:25 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I wanted to thank my colleague for his excellent speech and for talking about solidarity. It is such an important word. It was exemplified by the people of Ukraine over the last number of days. They have really shown us an example of that word and what it means. This weekend I had a chance to participate in a rally in Lanspeary Park in Windsor—Tecumseh. It was organized by two very strong women and local leaders: Leisha Nazarewich and Carol Guimond. Many people at that rally asked, as Canadians, what we could do to show solidarity with the Ukrainian Canadian community. That is my question to my hon. colleague.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:25:08 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would simply say that we have to do more. Even though what has been done so far is very impressive, we cannot be satisfied with that, because the conflict is still active. Men, women, the elderly and children continue to lose their lives. We cannot tolerate that. It is human nature not to tolerate such a thing. We must make every effort and use every means at our disposal to end this conflict. One thing I wanted to bring up in closing, is the courage of the Ukrainian people. We see them standing up to Russian tanks. The Ukrainian President is staying in the capital and eating with his soldiers. We owe it to Volodymyr Zelensky, to the defender, to the leader of the free world.
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Hon. Greg Fergus (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the President of the Treasury Board, Lib.)
  • Feb/28/22 10:26:37 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my colleague from Montarville for his excellent speech. I also thank him for his show of solidarity on behalf of all parliamentarians in the House and certainly on behalf of his political party. I was planning to offer him some time to finish his speech because I thought it was good. However, he was able to add a few words at the end. I have a question for my colleague. If the world allows Russia to continue to invade the country, this will send a bad message. As the saying goes, might makes right. As a Canadian and as a Quebecker, that is something I cannot tolerate. Does my colleague see things the way I do? I would like his opinion on that.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:27:53 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my colleague from Hull—Aylmer for his question and especially for saying he wanted to give me some time to finish my speech. I am very touched, hon. colleague. He is absolutely right. There are autocrats in this world who think that the west showed weakness in how it ended the operation in Afghanistan. I am convinced that autocrats around the world are watching what is happening in Ukraine very closely. Democracy is being tested. Russia is testing the solidarity and determination of democratic states. I do not want to make an inappropriate comparison, but another European autocrat tested the determination and will of democracies a few decades ago. He paid with his life.
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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)
  • Feb/28/22 10:29:17 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my esteemed colleague from Montarville. I always enjoy listening to him. He mentioned in his speech that he was a bit surprised by the very quick international response. We had another surprise earlier today. Switzerland emerged from hundreds of years of sacrosanct neutrality. I wonder if my colleague shares my impression that this too marks something of a turning point in the way the west is handling this conflict.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:29:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, once again, my colleague is quite right. It is rather amazing to see Switzerland, whose neutrality has always been a cardinal value, fall in line, take a position in a conflict and decide to impose the same sanctions as other democratic states. As neutral as Switzerland may be, it is also a democracy. I am certain that the Swiss authorities clearly understood what I said earlier, that what is happening at present is a challenge to all democracies around the world. Switzerland heard Russia's challenge, so Switzerland sided with democracies by condemning Russia's aggression against Ukraine.
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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)
  • Feb/28/22 10:31:00 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is a pleasure to work with my colleague on the foreign affairs committee, and it was a pleasure, in the previous Parliament, to work with him on the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. There has been a lot of discussion about the role of misinformation, and in particular there are concerns about RT. It is important to note some of the content we heard in the last Parliament. There are various so-called media outlets that are state-backed coming out of Russia and China that push misinformation and that also sometimes feature atrocities as part of their programming. There are instances, for example, of forced confessions and human rights abuses that are happening in the context of TV production, yet they are licensed to operate in Canada. I wonder if the member could comment on the need, as many members have said, to address the issue of RT, but also to look across the board at state-backed misinformation and propaganda coming into Canada and whether those entities should have privileged access to our airwaves. Of course, they still exist on the Internet, but in my view they should not have the privilege of broadcasting licences and access to our airwaves.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:32:23 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I was speaking about cardinal values earlier. In a democracy, freedom of expression and freedom of the press are cardinal values. We must always be extremely cautious and careful when we decide to circumscribe, regulate or limit freedom of expression and freedom of the press. As the courts have ruled over the past few decades, there comes a time when reasonable limits must be imposed. When it is clear that there is a propaganda campaign, we must intervene. I will end by reiterating that the main victims of this propaganda, this disinformation, are not Canadians, the French or the British, but Russians themselves. We must seek to provide information about what is really happening in Ukraine at present so that Russians can clearly see just how unjust and undemocratic their government is.
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