44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 28, 2022 11:00AM
- Feb/28/22 7:06:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, would the hon. Leader of the Opposition and her party consider adding to the list of actions we should take? Looking across Canada, we see the assets in this country bought by Russian oligarchs, the millions of dollars in real estate. Could we move fast to seize those assets to send a message to Putin and his cronies?
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- Feb/28/22 7:07:07 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is definitely something we could support. It is very disturbing to see Putin's assets being protected and hidden. Money laundering is a big problem in Canada, not just with Russian oligarchs, but also with the Chinese.
This is a prime opportunity to deal with some of these major problems that we have seen occurring in the country. Canada should not be a safe haven for gangsters, thugs and dictators to protect their money. That has to stop. This is the best time and we are all in agreement. Let us get it done. Let us punish some of these dictators.
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- Feb/28/22 7:40:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Mr. Browder really wanted to highlight that sanctions will only work if they target Putin. Putin is not someone who cares about his country. He has robbed from the country. However, he does care about his wealth, and his wealth is hoarded by oligarchs.
The member pointed out that Magnitsky laws provide for the provision of corruption. There are many cases where we can tie oligarchs who are close to Putin with corruption, and those oligarchs need to be sanctioned. We need to start naming and sanctioning specific oligarchs closely connected to Putin who are involved in corruption. That will significantly impact Putin in a way that can apply real leverage and pressure on him to stop this war.
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- Feb/28/22 7:43:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what has been identified really clearly is, if we want to apply pressure on Putin, the current approach with sanctions, while symbolically important, will not impact him. He has amassed significant wealth by stealing from his own country, so sanctions on the country will not be sufficient to curtail his actions or send a clear message that will hurt Putin personally.
The only way to apply pressure in this case is make President Putin feel the pain. We know that his wealth is held and hoarded by oligarchs, many of whom have been identified by many advocates. We need to identify and sanction those specific oligarchs with Magnitsky law, the sanctions and powers we have. That will send a very powerful message and hurt Putin where it counts, which is his greed and the wealth he has amassed by stealing from the country and Russians.
That is what we need to do. That is a powerful tool, which has yet to be used effectively, and it is part of what New Democrats are calling for, which is to apply real leverage and pressure to end what is going on in Ukraine, to end the violence and stop Putin from continuing to do it.
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- Feb/28/22 7:45:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, under normal circumstances, sanctions can be imposed and diplomacy can be used to send messages. In this case, however, it is clear that President Putin is not paying attention to such gestures. He only cares about money. That really is his weakness.
If we really want to help the Ukrainian people, who are suffering at the moment, the sanctions must hit President Putin by targeting the oligarchs and their wealth. That is how we can really put pressure on President Putin. Other tools, sanctions and efforts will unfortunately not work, because Putin does not care about normal things. On the other hand, if we target the oligarchs, we can put pressure on Putin and hit him where it hurts the most.
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- Feb/28/22 8:47:49 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his speech and his sensitivity. We can see he is concerned, as are all of us here in the House.
My colleague said that the government is prepared to do more. A number of solutions have been mentioned this evening, including expanding the sanctions to Belarus.
I would like to know whether there have been talks with our partners to implement these sanctions as quickly as possible, in order to hurt everyone in the enemy camp. People who have taken Russia's side are no less guilty of these acts of aggression.
Also, how can we better target wealthy Russian oligarchs, in an effort to hit the Russian president even harder?
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- Feb/28/22 8:51:26 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we have heard a lot of questions and replies about what Canada can do. We have heard from the Conservatives that we should stop importing Russian oil, which we do not do now anyway.
I am wondering what the member would think about having the Canada pension plan divest itself of many very questionable investments many of which relate to Russian oligarchs. That money is used to create war. I am wondering if he could respond to that. My colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford put forward a private member's bill in the last Parliament and it is something that the government should act on.
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- Feb/28/22 8:52:19 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the pension board is independent of government, but I think now is the time for government to be looking at all tools available to limit the ability for Russia, for Putin, for the oligarchs to finance the war that we are seeing in Ukraine. If that were something that was available and there were ties, that is something the government could look at, particularly given the circumstances that we are seeing right now.
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- Feb/28/22 10:00:23 p.m.
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Madam Chair, that is a very, very important question.
Everything has to be done. I can remember several years ago the former member of Parliament for Etobicoke Centre talked about removing Russia from the SWIFT system. That is being done now. Sanctions have been imposed on many of the oligarchs. They have been imposed on President Putin himself. I believe they are working. I believe we need to do more.
We are working with countries around the world. That is an important message in all of this. I used the phrase “arm in arm” earlier. The world is working together on these things collectively, consistently and together. It is working.
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- Feb/28/22 10:12:38 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I asked this earlier but I would like the opinion of the hon. parliamentary secretary. Will the government be considering going after the personal assets of the Russian oligarchs, including massive homes and mansions and yachts?
I know where one mansion is. It is in my riding and I would like it to be seized.
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- Feb/28/22 10:12:59 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I always appreciate the passion of the member, especially on this matter.
I think what Canada can do and ought to do, and I speak here as a member of Parliament but I join colleagues in this, is join other countries and explore exactly what has been suggested here. There is no doubt that the network of oligarchs in Russia has many assets abroad. If there are ways to address that and if there are ways to seize those assets and ensure they are not put to use by oligarchs who have surrounded the president to the detriment of the Russian people, then countries can discuss that and work among themselves for a resolution.
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- Feb/28/22 11:50:17 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would like to thank my colleague from Edmonton Griesbach for his speech and his point of view.
I put this question to my colleague from Montarville. I am sure my colleague from Edmonton Griesbach also agrees that we need to push back against the idea that might makes right in international relations.
Does he agree with me that economic sanctions are more effective than military force at getting Russian oligarchs to see that enough is enough, that they like all their pretty things and that they would prefer peace to continuing the invasion of Ukraine?
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- Feb/28/22 11:51:22 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank the hon. member for his question and for really highlighting a problem that exists right now in the world. We have a very small group of people who are oligarchs, meaning they have tremendous power and wealth. They are controlling systems around the globe, not just in Russia.
I believe that Russia is one of the most aggressive countries that has found and manipulated ways to use capital, to use that capital to create pain, and particularly to hide that capital as well. What we are seeing in countries all over the world are these safe havens for the terrible amount of wealth that truly goes into fuelling a war machine. That is what is happening right now. A select few, very wealthy people are using their means to create harm: to murder innocent people and create division across what was historically, in the last 75 years at least, a peaceful Europe.
What we are seeing is the use of terrible capital that is harboured even in Canada, right now, in places such as Toronto and Vancouver. In real estate, people have been able to harbour this wealth. We have roles to play in order to target that wealth, sanction those individuals and truly bring them to justice. This is not a war against the Russian people. This is a war against tyrants like Putin and the oligarchs who support him and his efforts.
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