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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 37

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 28, 2022 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 37 - Feb/28/22
Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)
  • Feb/28/22 10:12:38 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I asked this earlier but I would like the opinion of the hon. parliamentary secretary. Will the government be considering going after the personal assets of the Russian oligarchs, including massive homes and mansions and yachts? I know where one mansion is. It is in my riding and I would like it to be seized.
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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos
  • Feb/28/22 10:12:59 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I always appreciate the passion of the member, especially on this matter. I think what Canada can do and ought to do, and I speak here as a member of Parliament but I join colleagues in this, is join other countries and explore exactly what has been suggested here. There is no doubt that the network of oligarchs in Russia has many assets abroad. If there are ways to address that and if there are ways to seize those assets and ensure they are not put to use by oligarchs who have surrounded the president to the detriment of the Russian people, then countries can discuss that and work among themselves for a resolution.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Montarville, BQ)
  • Feb/28/22 10:13:51 p.m.
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Madam Chair, God knows how much I wanted to believe in peace. I still believe in it today, because there is no other way out besides peace. We must remain hopeful that these rather strange negotiations currently taking place will bring an end to this conflict, and the suffering it is causing, as quickly as possible. We must remember that during the previous take-note debate on the situation in Ukraine, our party and the government had some differences of opinion about the imminence of the conflict. Of course, those differences of opinion did nothing to prevent the conflict from breaking out. Ukraine has been unfairly attacked by Russia. I told the Minister of Foreign Affairs that if conflict were to break out, the government could count on the full support of the Bloc and that we would stand in solidarity in terms of our desire to punish Russia and show our full support for the people of Ukraine. There is solidarity among us in the House, exemplary solidarity among the allies, and solidarity with the Ukrainian people, whose courage and resilience are truly admirable. On Saturday, some colleagues and I met with Ukrainian colleagues. We spent a few minutes with some of them. One of our colleagues told us that the president and the deputies would stay in the capital. It would have been so easy for those parliamentarians to go back to their constituencies, to return to their families and the people they represent, but this is symbolic of how courageous Ukrainians are in the face of adversity, in the face of this unequal combat they are confronted with. We simply have no choice but to support the Ukrainian people, first because this country is home to the world's third-largest Ukrainian community. These are people we connect with daily, who have family over there. We share and feel their anguish, their sadness, their concern. We have no choice but to support the Ukrainian people because they have been subjected to an unfair attack that is also an attack against democracy, against freedom, against us. Finally, we have no choice because the courage that the Ukrainian people are showing compels us to support them. We, by which I mean the Government of Canada and the west in general, have so far deployed a battery of measures to punish Russia, but also to punish Belarus, which has been complicit in the invasion of Ukraine. I mentioned today that we might want to take that a bit further. As I said earlier, the Russians would not be at the gates of Kyiv if President Lukachenko had not allowed Russia to use his territory as a base to attack Ukraine from the north. I have to say that I was, quite frankly, impressed by the speed and vigour of the response by western countries. I must admit that I had doubts. In the early hours of the invasion, we were hearing some reactions from Europe. Certain countries were saying that some of their companies should be excluded from sanctions, and that if Russian banks were banned from SWIFT they would have a hard time conducting transactions. It was starting to look like there might be a chink in the armour, which was worrying, but the west pulled itself together and the allies took action. We have to admire how quickly and strongly countries have responded, but there is still a lot to do. I heard our Green Party colleague talk about certain oligarchs. Leonid Volkov, who is Alexei Navalny's chief of staff, appeared before the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade and told us that we needed to take action. He gave us a list of oligarchs who should be sanctioned. Several of those on the list have still not been sanctioned. I am pleased to hear my colleagues in government tell us that everything is on the table. If the government decides to move forward with this, it will continue to have our support, because we must do more. We cannot tolerate this unacceptable aggression towards Ukraine. We must definitely provide all our support to the Ukrainian people, as we have started doing. This means providing military equipment, non-lethal as well as lethal. Ukrainians need it, as they are facing the second largest army on the planet. We are also talking about foodstuffs, drugs and medical equipment. We must rise to the challenge and give Ukrainians what they need. We must also welcome Ukrainian refugees. There are currently half a million of them gathered in neighbouring countries, and they are asking for help. The leader of the Bloc Québécois pointed out that if we can accept people at Roxham Road without a visa, why should we continue to enforce entrance formalities for Ukrainian refugees and make them complete all the formalities for receiving a visa? We must remove these requirements and make it easier for Ukrainians who wish to find refuge in Canada, temporarily or permanently, to enter our country. We have to cut Russian propaganda off at the knees by removing Russia Today from Canadian airwaves. Speaking of Russian propaganda, the Russian people need to be informed. I cannot help but be amazed at the thousands of people in the streets of Moscow, St. Petersburg and other Russian cities risking arrest the moment they hit the streets to protest this war against a people that did nothing to deserve it, a people whose destiny they have shared for over 75 years. Many Russians do not understand, and many of those who do not understand are speaking out against what they feel is unacceptable. How many Russian families will be bereaved? How many soldiers' bodies will be returned to their families as casualties of an unjust conflict? As I said today, there may be hope in the Russia that is making itself heard today despite pressure from the powers that be. In addition, as we heard from—
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The Deputy Chair
  • Feb/28/22 10:23:56 p.m.
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I have to interrupt the member because his time is up. The hon. member will be able to conclude his remarks when he answers questions. Question and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion.
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Mr. Irek Kusmierczyk (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion, Lib.)
  • Feb/28/22 10:24:25 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I wanted to thank my colleague for his excellent speech and for talking about solidarity. It is such an important word. It was exemplified by the people of Ukraine over the last number of days. They have really shown us an example of that word and what it means. This weekend I had a chance to participate in a rally in Lanspeary Park in Windsor—Tecumseh. It was organized by two very strong women and local leaders: Leisha Nazarewich and Carol Guimond. Many people at that rally asked, as Canadians, what we could do to show solidarity with the Ukrainian Canadian community. That is my question to my hon. colleague.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:25:08 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I would simply say that we have to do more. Even though what has been done so far is very impressive, we cannot be satisfied with that, because the conflict is still active. Men, women, the elderly and children continue to lose their lives. We cannot tolerate that. It is human nature not to tolerate such a thing. We must make every effort and use every means at our disposal to end this conflict. One thing I wanted to bring up in closing, is the courage of the Ukrainian people. We see them standing up to Russian tanks. The Ukrainian President is staying in the capital and eating with his soldiers. We owe it to Volodymyr Zelensky, to the defender, to the leader of the free world.
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Hon. Greg Fergus (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the President of the Treasury Board, Lib.)
  • Feb/28/22 10:26:37 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my colleague from Montarville for his excellent speech. I also thank him for his show of solidarity on behalf of all parliamentarians in the House and certainly on behalf of his political party. I was planning to offer him some time to finish his speech because I thought it was good. However, he was able to add a few words at the end. I have a question for my colleague. If the world allows Russia to continue to invade the country, this will send a bad message. As the saying goes, might makes right. As a Canadian and as a Quebecker, that is something I cannot tolerate. Does my colleague see things the way I do? I would like his opinion on that.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:27:53 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my colleague from Hull—Aylmer for his question and especially for saying he wanted to give me some time to finish my speech. I am very touched, hon. colleague. He is absolutely right. There are autocrats in this world who think that the west showed weakness in how it ended the operation in Afghanistan. I am convinced that autocrats around the world are watching what is happening in Ukraine very closely. Democracy is being tested. Russia is testing the solidarity and determination of democratic states. I do not want to make an inappropriate comparison, but another European autocrat tested the determination and will of democracies a few decades ago. He paid with his life.
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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)
  • Feb/28/22 10:29:17 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank my esteemed colleague from Montarville. I always enjoy listening to him. He mentioned in his speech that he was a bit surprised by the very quick international response. We had another surprise earlier today. Switzerland emerged from hundreds of years of sacrosanct neutrality. I wonder if my colleague shares my impression that this too marks something of a turning point in the way the west is handling this conflict.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:29:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, once again, my colleague is quite right. It is rather amazing to see Switzerland, whose neutrality has always been a cardinal value, fall in line, take a position in a conflict and decide to impose the same sanctions as other democratic states. As neutral as Switzerland may be, it is also a democracy. I am certain that the Swiss authorities clearly understood what I said earlier, that what is happening at present is a challenge to all democracies around the world. Switzerland heard Russia's challenge, so Switzerland sided with democracies by condemning Russia's aggression against Ukraine.
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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)
  • Feb/28/22 10:31:00 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is a pleasure to work with my colleague on the foreign affairs committee, and it was a pleasure, in the previous Parliament, to work with him on the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. There has been a lot of discussion about the role of misinformation, and in particular there are concerns about RT. It is important to note some of the content we heard in the last Parliament. There are various so-called media outlets that are state-backed coming out of Russia and China that push misinformation and that also sometimes feature atrocities as part of their programming. There are instances, for example, of forced confessions and human rights abuses that are happening in the context of TV production, yet they are licensed to operate in Canada. I wonder if the member could comment on the need, as many members have said, to address the issue of RT, but also to look across the board at state-backed misinformation and propaganda coming into Canada and whether those entities should have privileged access to our airwaves. Of course, they still exist on the Internet, but in my view they should not have the privilege of broadcasting licences and access to our airwaves.
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:32:23 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I was speaking about cardinal values earlier. In a democracy, freedom of expression and freedom of the press are cardinal values. We must always be extremely cautious and careful when we decide to circumscribe, regulate or limit freedom of expression and freedom of the press. As the courts have ruled over the past few decades, there comes a time when reasonable limits must be imposed. When it is clear that there is a propaganda campaign, we must intervene. I will end by reiterating that the main victims of this propaganda, this disinformation, are not Canadians, the French or the British, but Russians themselves. We must seek to provide information about what is really happening in Ukraine at present so that Russians can clearly see just how unjust and undemocratic their government is.
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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)
  • Feb/28/22 10:33:54 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I have a quick question for my colleague in the Bloc Québécois. Does he agree that a world war broke out between dictators and true democracies as a result of the disinformation that my colleague from Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan was talking about?
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Mr. Stéphane Bergeron
  • Feb/28/22 10:34:19 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I completely agree with my colleague, and I mentioned this in my speech. The problem with Ukraine and Russia is that two philosophies and two world views are clashing. We must defend the side that prioritizes human rights and the rights of peoples.
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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz (Davenport, Lib.)
  • Feb/28/22 10:34:49 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Surrey Centre. It is a true honour for me to stand in the House this evening to take part in the important discussion and debate we are having on Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine. I want to start by thanking my colleague for Etobicoke Centre and all members of the House for making sure that we had the space and time to have this important discussion. At this time, Canada is going through so much: our ongoing fight against COVID, unpredictability, uncertainty and so much change happening in the world today. However, despite all of this, the unprovoked attack on Ukraine is very much top of mind for Canadians, and it is most certainly top of mind for the residents in my riding of Davenport. I firmly stand in solidarity with the people of Ukraine and with its legitimate, democratically elected government and Parliament, not just because I am a proud Ukrainian Canadian, but because I too join all Canadians in condemning, in the most unequivocal manner, the unprovoked, unjust and illegal attack by Russia on Ukraine. Two images stand out for me. The first image is of President Zelensky standing his ground, not leaving Kyiv and saying that he is staying. He is fighting for freedom, democracy and his country. There is the image of Ukrainians, and not just the soldiers, but everyday citizens who have decided to stay. They are using whatever is at their disposal to fight the Russians, such as molotov cocktails, and are taking up arms. Their bravery is inspiring. The second image is of the big country of Russia, a global military power, attacking a smaller nation, unprovoked. The world has taken notice, because all of a sudden we all feel threatened. If we do not stop this illegal and unconscionable attack on Ukraine, who is to stand up for us should this happen to us? This illegal invasion is against international law and against article 2 of the UN charter, which says that no nation is less sovereign and less equal than any other nation and that no nation has a right to violate the integrity of another nation. Canada's UN ambassador reminded us in a speech at the UN a few days ago that the Soviet Union was actually present at the drafting of the UN charter after World War II. Russia is now in breach of the rules it helped craft and that it promised to follow. It knows what the charter says but has chosen to breach it. I am so proud of Canada for stepping up to do its part by working closely and in conjunction with our allies and by taking action primarily with our NATO allies. We are also taking action independently and stepping up to do our own part by providing economic support, defensive weapons, lethal and non-lethal weapons and supplies and by imposing sanctions. On the immigration front, we are fast-tracking applications for Ukrainian refugees. We are also banning crude oil imports from Russia. The list goes on. We will not stop until this attack on Ukraine stops. I have attended thousands of rallies in my life, but one of the best ones I attended happened yesterday. It was not only well organized; it was beautiful. We can all say the words “we are Ukrainian”, but yesterday I really felt it and I really believed that the 30,000 people in the centre of Toronto really felt it too. We had leaders from Jamaica stand up on stage and say, “Jamaica is Ukrainian today”. We had Hong Kong Chinese people stand up to say, “We are Ukrainian today”. I saw members from the Portuguese and Brazilian community there as well to show their solidarity. Every single culture and nation here in Canada was standing up for Ukrainians yesterday. The event ended with the Ukrainian Canadian Congress telling us to look up because there was a drone taking photos above us. They said the photos would be sent back to Ukraine to show all Ukrainians that Canada was there supporting them, thinking of them and praying for them. I hope they did see our photos and felt our love, support and hope for a peaceful end soon. We want Ukraine to be victorious, and most of all we want peace for Ukrainians, who are part of a world that has seen too much bloodshed for too many years. I do hope that we find a way to get to a peaceful end. I hope with all my heart that there is a way for Putin to stand down. Our Canadian UN ambassador indicated a few days ago that it is never too late to stop, to dialogue and to negotiate, and we are prepared to find a way to peace, prosperity and progress for all peoples living in the region. I am going to end by quoting Taras Shevchenko—
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The Deputy Chair
  • Feb/28/22 10:39:57 p.m.
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The hon. member will have to do that during questions and comments. I apologize. Questions and comments, the hon. member for Brandon—Souris.
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Mr. Larry Maguire (Brandon—Souris, CPC)
  • Feb/28/22 10:40:16 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will give my colleague a couple of minutes to finish her speech.
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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz
  • Feb/28/22 10:40:26 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank the hon. member for allowing me to do that. I want to end by quoting Taras Shevchenko. For those who do not know him, he is a Ukrainian kobzar, or the Bard of Ukraine, and he talked a lot about Ukrainian independence. He said: Love your dear Ukraine, adore her, Love her...in fierce times of evil,In the last dread hour of struggle, Fervently beseech God for her. Fight on—and you shall prevail!God helps you in your fight! For fame and freedom march with you, And right is on your side!
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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)
  • Feb/28/22 10:41:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, that was a very moving speech and we all feel it. It is important to note that everyone in the House stands with Ukraine and Ukrainians in our communities and abroad. Something that is really important for a lot of people is that Ukrainians do not require visas to travel to 114 countries, including most of Europe. Ireland announced that recently as well. The NDP has been calling for this since 2018. Why is the government so reluctant to provide visa-free travel to Ukrainians?
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Ms. Julie Dzerowicz
  • Feb/28/22 10:41:53 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank the member for her support, kind comments and pushing for visas. The Minister of Immigration was very clear today, as all ministers on the government side have been, that all options continue to be on the table. We are looking at visas. I also hope that in the coming days it is something we will consider, and I have great hope that we will have some good news in the days to come.
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