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Apr/28/22 4:32:48 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, the member opposite has touched on two really important issues for Canada. One is action to fight climate change, and the other is supporting Canada's health care system. When it comes to fighting climate change, I really believe that Canada today has a national consensus, a consensus that crosses party lines and a consensus that reaches from coast to coast to coast, and that is that climate change is real and that our country must ambitiously fight climate change. Let me also say, as finance minister, that yes, climate action is a moral imperative, an existential question, and we owe it to our children and future grandchildren to act on climate change, but it is also an economic necessity. The industrialized economies that are our trading partners have decided to go green, and the only question is whether Canada is going to be in the vanguard of the transformation, or falling behind.

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Mr. Jeremy Patzer (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, CPC)

Apr/28/22 4:34:07 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, in part 5 of Bill C-8, the government has earmarked $300 million to continue to fund proof of vaccination requirements by the provinces. All the provinces that I am aware of have actually gotten rid of the proof of vaccination requirements. I am just wondering why the federal government is bothering to earmark and spend $300 million on something that the provinces are not asking for, and quite frankly are not even using right now.

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Hon. Chrystia Freeland

Apr/28/22 4:34:40 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, I had the real privilege yesterday of representing Canada at the funeral of Madeleine Albright, the former Secretary of State and U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. To get to Washington, I flew on an airplane. To get on the airplane, I had to present my Ontario proof of vaccination. I was glad, as I got on that plane, to be surrounded by other people who had been vaccinated. I was very glad that the Province of Ontario has arranged for me to be able to receive three doses of the vaccine, and has arranged for me to be able to have a proof of vaccination certificate.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Apr/28/22 4:35:32 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, Bill C-8 is one of a number of pieces of both legislative and budgetary measures with which the Government of Canada has been supporting Canadians and small businesses going through the pandemic. Could my colleague and friend, the Minister of Finance, explain from her perspective why it was so important, as a government, that we be there to support small businesses, whether it is within this legislation or other legislation and budgetary initiatives that the government has taken?

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Hon. Chrystia Freeland

Apr/28/22 4:36:11 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Madam Speaker, it is important to support small businesses, because they are the heart not only of our economy but of our communities. Our measures have worked. We have prevented economic scarring. We have prevented a wave of bankruptcies, which people were concerned about when COVID first hit. Canada has now recovered 115% of the jobs lost to COVID, compared to just 93% in the United States.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Apr/28/22 4:36:36 p.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House. The question is on the motion. If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair. The hon. member for Calgary Shepard.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec

Apr/28/22 4:37:14 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on behalf of Her Majesty's official opposition, I ask for a recorded division.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Apr/28/22 4:37:20 p.m.
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Call in the members. And the bells having rung:

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The Deputy Speaker

Apr/28/22 5:08:14 p.m.
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The question is on the motion. Shall I dispense? Some hon. members: Agreed. Some hon. members: No. [Chair read text of motion to House]

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The Deputy Speaker

Apr/28/22 5:21:31 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

I declare the motion carried.

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Mrs. Cheryl Gallant (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, CPC)

Apr/28/22 5:22:10 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-8

Mr. Speaker, as the member of Parliament for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, I welcome this opportunity to put the observations my constituents share with their MP on the public record. I am their servant. While the bill may have many parts, I intend to focus on the sections relevant to Canadians. With Liberal inflation, tax cuts are non-existent. With Liberal inflation, house prices will keep on rising. This will fuel more Liberal inflation, which in turn raises house prices even higher. It is a vicious circle. What started this cycle? This cycle was started by huge deficits commencing back in 2015 after the federal election. The Conservatives do not blame COVID-19 pandemic mitigation measures, which we supported. The Prime Minister's inflationary deficits have been a signature policy of the government since long before COVID-19 hit. In fact, billions and billions of deficit dollars are being spent on things unrelated to the pandemic. In the case of defence spending, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has identified billions in borrowing that are unaccounted for. Taxpayers’ dollars are being poured down a black hole, but this socialist government refuses to tell Canadians what that spending is for. Canadians have a right to know how their tax dollars are being spent. When the NDP-Liberal socialist alliance inflates the monetary base, it is effectively devaluing the spending power of the money people have. By devaluing that spending power, it is actually hurting the people who have to spend that money on basic goods. The only way to get ahead of the inflationary spiral is to quit printing money. By continually printing money, which is called running a deficit, our currency is debased. This leads to greater deficits and more Liberal inflation. This in turn makes everything more unaffordable. Canadians who contact me are fearful about any Liberal plan to implement an electronic currency, or e-currency. They have no confidence that the money they earn and the money they save will keep its value. My constituents have read about negative interest rates, the seizure of bank accounts and social credit scores that Communist China keeps on its citizens, and they do not like what they hear. Accounts can be seized with the stroke of a keyboard. Just ask any “freedom convoy” supporter. Canadians who contact me tell me how divisive to society these socialist policies are. Since 2015, the gap between the rich and the poor in Canada has actually widened. Nowhere has this policy failure been more evident than in the rise in the cost of a single-family home. This is a big problem. Unaffordable housing prices are a direct result of the NDP-Liberal socialist coalition’s monetary policy. Blaming the Russians, Chinese, new immigrants, unseen foreigners or whoever else the socialist coalition wants to reserve this week’s two minutes of hate for is divisive, hateful and just another diversionary tactic to draw attention away from the real problems Canadians face. Young Canadians who call me simply expect a fair chance. They would like to believe that Canada is a country in which hard work and savings are realistic paths to home ownership. Young people in Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke want affordable housing where they can raise families, while not losing more than half of their paycheques each month to put a roof over their heads. Seniors want to grow old living in their own homes. This is not an unrealistic ask in a functioning democratic and free-market society. The socialist coalition wants to move away from this successful model. Since the government came to power or shortly thereafter, six years ago, the average price of a family home in Canada has shot up 87%. In 2016, the average price of a new house was $476,000. It is now $811,000, according to the Canadian Real Estate Association. What was the coalition's response? It was another tax. Starting in the 2022 calendar year, Bill C-8 will charge a 1% federal surtax on non-resident owners of passively held real estate in Canada. That means even Canadians who own a home but live abroad for work are going to pay an extra 1% annually on the value of their home back here. It is like a municipal tax for those people who own property or their own single-family home, only the money goes to the feds. I am still waiting for a credible explanation of how this will create more affordable housing. The proposal is troubling in other ways. Taxing properties is municipal jurisdiction. Municipalities in my riding of are having serious financial difficulties. Now the federal government wants to pick their pockets too. Interfering in property tax is a serious mistake. It sets a dangerous precedent of interference from the federal government. Municipalities in the counties of Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke charge a range of development fees. In Arnprior, development charges for a single or semi-detached dwelling run around $16,000. In Renfrew, it is $9,000. In Petawawa, development charges are over $6,000. In Cobden, the cost is roughly $5,800, and it is under $4,000 in Pembroke. Six municipalities in Renfrew County do not charge development fees: Admaston/Bromley; Bonnechere Valley; Laurentian Hills; North Algona Wilberforce; the township of Killaloe, Hagarty and Richards; and the township of Head, Clara and Maria. In a recent presentation to county council, which is looking to increase development charges, fees in the rest of Ontario were examined. Some counties across Ontario charge almost $25,000 in development charges for a single detached or semi-detached dwelling. Others, such as my neighbour to the south, Lanark County, charge on the lower end of the scale at roughly $1,500 for development charges on a new residential home. The federal government needs to be working in co-operation with municipalities to help them decrease development fees. Only by increasing the housing supply will prices stabilize. Residents in Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke are very concerned about the planned home equity tax. That is another idea that undermines the municipal property tax base. With record sales, high prices for real estate, and the recent disclosure about CMHC funding studies to look at ways to raise revenues by taxing principal residences, Canadians have every right to be skeptical when half-hearted denials are made by the federal government. Canadians will have to wait and see when a new federal home equity tax, currently under consideration, will be implemented.

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Mr. Clifford Small (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, CPC)

Apr/28/22 5:30:55 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

moved that Bill C-251, An Act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds, be read the second time and referred to a committee. He said: Madam Speaker, Canada's coastal regions are facing an ecological disaster. As such, I stand today for the second reading of my bill, Bill C-251, an act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds. Pinnipeds are a group of marine animals that include seals, sea lions and walruses. The focus of the bill is to address the harmful effects of seal and sea lion predation on the biodiversity of our oceans. Historically, Canada has had the most productive oceans in the world, as it should, having the longest coastline in the world. However, since the eighties, the productivity of our oceans has been drastically reduced, resulting in the loss of billions of dollars in our blue economy and the loss of traditional ways of life for our first nation communities. Currently Norway, a fellow North Atlantic country, has a blue economy worth three times more than that of Canada, with a coastline that is 2.5 times shorter than Canada’s. Thus, Norway’s ocean is nearly eight times more productive than Canada’s oceans. Since the eighties, Canadian fisheries have undertaken vast conservation measures to improve the health of our fish stocks. This year marks the 30th anniversary of the moratorium on northern cod off Newfoundland and Labrador. There has been a commercial moratorium on Atlantic salmon for the same amount of time, and we have recently seen the closure of the mackerel fishery and the spring gulf herring fishery in Atlantic Canada. Capelin quotas are currently less than 10% of their historic highs. In Labrador, the snow crab quota has been cut by 80% since 2000. In British Columbia, salmon quotas are down 80% since 2014. This year the Pacific herring fishery has been completely closed. These are a few examples of the conservation measures that have been taken over the last 30 years, but to no avail. Iceland had a capelin moratorium in 2019 and 2020, and their conservation measures have worked. This year, they have set a capelin quota of almost 900,000 tonnes. Canada once had a 250,000-tonne capelin fishery, but it has steadily declined to only 22,000 tonnes this past year. Norway, Russia and Iceland currently have a million-tonne cod fishery, but Canada’s northern cod cannot recover after a 30-year moratorium. Cod and many other species rely on capelin as a main food source, and DFO estimates that 7.6 million harp seals consume 1.8 million tonnes of capelin. Now, if folks cannot envision 1.8 million tonnes, they can try envisioning four billion pounds. In addition to the destruction of our capelin stocks, seals have turned their attention to the Atlantic salmon. Anglers in my province have observed seals in salmon rivers such as the Humber River and the Northwest Gander River, as far as 50 kilometres upstream from the ocean. Local seal harvesters off the coast of Labrador have counted as many as 150 female crabs in the stomach of one seal. At an average survival rate for those crab eggs, that one seal, in a short period of time, destroyed millions of dollars’ worth of adult crab, should they have survived to maturity. Seals have even been observed eating lobster in Nova Scotia and south and western Newfoundland, but they told the server to hold the garlic butter. Rivers have been closed to salmon fishing, and the cod quota has been slashed in fishing area 3Ps on the south coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. The common denominator is predation by grey seals, which have had a population explosion that puts their numbers at five times historic levels. In Atlantic Canada, the population of all combined species of seals in 1970 was approximately two million. Today, it is over 10 million. These massive herds of seals consume the entire commercial catch in just 15 days. That means they consume 24 times the annual commercial catch in Atlantic Canada every year. On Canada's Pacific coast, pinniped populations are more than 10 times higher than they were in 1970. Fifty per cent of salmon smolts entering the ocean from B.C.’s rivers are consumed by pinnipeds. They also consume millions of returning adults. Sea lions in rivers consume 40 pounds of salmon per day. They even wait near a narrow passage at the north end of Vancouver Island to take about two million Fraser River sockeye as they form schools on their annual migration. Pinnipeds even compete with resident killer whales as they forage on salmon and herring. Massive conservation measures have been made in B.C. fisheries in a similar fashion to those measures taken in Atlantic Canada, but with no results. When Norway and Iceland take conservation measures, they get results. We share the same ocean, so why do we not get the same results? It is very simple. It is because these countries manage their pinniped populations, and those populations have remained stable over the last 30 years. Many factors contribute to the decline of fish stocks. However, we can only control two. Number one is the amount of fish harvesters take out of the ocean. Number two is the number of pinnipeds that prey on those fish stocks. Bill C-251 would require the creation of a framework for the conservation of fish stocks by pinniped management. By managing our pinniped populations, we can restore balance in our marine ecosystems. At the same time, we can help restore livelihoods that were lost in first nation and northern communities. With the vast decline in, and in some jurisdictions the end of, commercial pinniped harvesting, the negative effect was twofold. The 2009 EU decision to ban non-indigenous commercial pinniped products removed the checks and balance in the predator-prey relations in our oceans. It also had the unintended consequence of destroying markets for Inuit hunters. Pinnipeds are currently harvested in the U.S.A., Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Iceland, Namibia and Russia. The framework of this bill calls for a yearly census on all species of pinnipeds to ensure the conservation of pinniped populations and that these populations remain viable. This framework calls for a study of how other countries in the northern hemisphere maintain their pinniped populations at successful and viable levels that do not infringe on the productivity of their oceans. We need to learn from these countries. This framework shall address trade barriers and work to remove them because these barriers are the root cause of our ecological imbalance and the destruction of the livelihoods of the first nations communities that depend on harvesting pinnipeds. We have the products developed for trade, and I am not necessarily referring to fur. There is a massive demand for healthy omega-3 oil produced from pinnipeds, both for medicinal purposes and as food supplements. My good friend, the doctor from Cumberland—Colchester, knows all about this wonderful topic. Why is seal oil better for us than other omega-3 oils? Number one, seal oil naturally contains 24% omega-3 without concentration. Number two, seal oil is extremely high in DPA, which is not found in fish oil. In fact, the only other source of DPA is breast milk. Number three, the fatty acids in seal oil are nearly identical to human fatty acids, and are, therefore, much more readily absorbed than those from cold-water fish or plant sources. A shelf-stable, nutrient-rich protein powder has even been developed, and the iron it contains is many times more readily absorbed by the body than iron from any other source. Products such as these, derived from full utilization of harvested pinnipeds, have enormous potential to help Canada fulfill its role in feeding the approximately 800 million starving people on Earth. Through consultations with industry stakeholders and first nations communities, I have found tremendous support for this bill and a great desire to have a pinniped management protocol that works side by side with other aspects of fisheries management. I thank the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society, which has developed a seal management plan that was proposed to DFO that currently has over 700,000 supporters, including 115 first nations groups, the Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia, the B.C. Wildlife Federation and UFAWU-Unifor. I thank the many industry stakeholders that encouraged me to move this bill forward on their behalf. I thank Chief Mi'sel Joe of the Conne River Mi’kmaq Tribal Nation for his support. I also thank Bob Hardy of the Atlantic Seal Science Task Team, my colleague, the MP for South Shore—St. Margarets, Senator David Wells, the Library of Parliament and my dedicated staff for helping me to put this bill together. Bill C-251 calls for the government to table a yearly progress report for the framework it develops. My bill, if passed, would provide a long-term conservation opportunity to sustainably rebuild the valuable, renewable, green resource that is our fishery. At the same time, we would rebuild a renewable industry in the harvesting, processing and trade of pinniped products, and would provide both conservation and economic opportunities to first nations and coastal communities. Mankind has allowed an imbalance to occur in our ecosystem that has resulted from pinniped overpopulation, and it is time to bring an end to this ecological disaster.

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Mr. Mike Kelloway (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, Lib.)

Apr/28/22 5:43:40 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure working with the member opposite on the fisheries committee, and I enjoy our conversations outside of committee. The bill calls for a yearly census to be conducted on pinnipeds. Would the member agree that the increased spending this bill requires for conducting that census would be important?

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Mr. Clifford Small

Apr/28/22 5:44:06 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has had a massive increase in its budget since 2015. All we need is a simple diversion of funds taken out of the regular science budget that it has right now.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, BQ)

Apr/28/22 5:44:41 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame for his great speech and his bill. You spoke about ecological imbalance and the repercussions for indigenous communities. There is still much to do with respect to acceptable population levels by species. Do you think that retaining the criterion of historical levels would result in a drastic reduction in populations?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Apr/28/22 5:45:15 p.m.
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I would like to remind the member to address her comments through the Chair and not directly to the member. The hon. member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame.

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Mr. Clifford Small

Apr/28/22 5:45:27 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, I am not exactly sure what my hon. colleague means, but I think she is asking me how we are going to look at historical data to create the framework moving forward. What I mean is that we would look back at where historical populations of pinnipeds were, and establish acceptable levels of where they should be so that our fish stocks could recover and get back to the levels they were at before the explosion in the population of pinnipeds. In the eighties, we started making conservation measures at the same time as there was an end to the commercial harvesting of pinnipeds. That was this. It caused the collapse of our fish stocks.

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Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP)

Apr/28/22 5:46:35 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his speech. I appreciate being part of the fisheries and oceans committee alongside him. I want to ask a question. The bill speaks at length about the management of pinnipeds, and I am wondering if the member could expand on what he means by management. In particular, maybe he could play that out a bit more. What would that look like? Also, what would happen with the pinnipeds that are being managed?

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Mr. Clifford Small

Apr/28/22 5:47:11 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Vancouver Island, who is originally from my home province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I think that is why she cares so much about the management of pinnipeds. It is a traditional thing that runs through her veins. What I mean by the management of pinnipeds is that not only do we set quotas, but we support the harvesting of pinnipeds. We can also make sure to support the marketing of the products we obtain from full utilization, and endeavour to get access to the world markets that we so desperately need. The world needs our products. That management also helps in the conservation of fish stocks. When we bring pinniped populations down, their prey populations go up.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Apr/28/22 5:48:25 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-251

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to be able to talk about issues that are important no matter where one lives in Canada. In fact, from coast to coast to coast, as well as inland, our fishing industry is of critical importance. We can talk about Lake Winnipeg, the north, Atlantic Canada and the Pacific, where we have relatively healthy industries that are of critical importance to all Canadians, not just to those who fish our oceans or our inland lakes. The member made reference to one of our chamber colleagues about how, being from Newfoundland and Labrador, it is kind of in the blood. I think of the member for Labrador, whom I have come to know over many years, and her position on the issue of seals. I can very much appreciate the sensitivity with respect to what is taking place. The member made some specific references to numbers, numbers we should all be concerned about. I will give him that. When we talk about the number of seals out there today, it is a significant number. He often made reference to pinnipeds, such as seals and walruses, which consume vast quantities of fish. I am pleased the member has brought forward the debate in the form of a piece of legislation, because it reflects a lot of the discussions I have personally had with the member for Labrador, but also with other members, in particular from our Atlantic caucus. We are all concerned, some maybe a bit more than others. That is something I have witnessed first-hand. I can assure the member that I have always been somewhat envious of the members of the Atlantic caucus when they get their teeth into an issue, and I know this is an important issue for them. However, this is not just an issue for Atlantic Canada. That is why I started off talking about what is taking place not only in the Atlantic Ocean. We also need to be concerned about the Pacific Ocean, the Arctic and our inland lakes. We have the DFO management group, which in essence puts into place measures to try to provide a level of comfort to people that we are on the right track. I can appreciate that there will always be some members who will say that we should be moving more in a particular direction. What this bill is attempting to achieve is some form of a more detailed management system that would ultimately provide additional assurances. The government itself, in recognizing the special situation that is taking place in Atlantic Canada, brought together the Atlantic seal task team. It is not a task force; it is a team of individuals, but one could ultimately call it a task force of sorts. However, at the end of the day it is a group of individuals that includes people who are fishing our seas. I think it is really important that as politicians we all have an opinion on it. I can sit across the way and talk to my friend who introduced the bill. It appears he has some fairly solid arguments, and I respect that. Having said that, I think we also need to factor in, much like when we went through the coronavirus, that we have science that needs to be taken into consideration and controversial issues that have to be overcome. I look at the seal population and the damage that industry has caused as a direct result of, what I would call, unfair practices by a number of people to make it sound as if there is no role for a seal industry. I would like to believe that there is a healthy future for our seal industry here in Canada. When we take a look at fishing stock issues, we need to focus a great deal of attention on the issue of science. We need to listen to the people who get paid to do the job they are doing and listen for the advice they might have to offer. When we talk about the industry, as a whole, it is significant. We are talking about billions of dollars of seafood. It is probably somewhere in the neighbourhood of $8 billion to $10 billion, depending on the year. Yes, the United States is the primary country we export our products to from our oceans and inland lakes, but it is not the only one. Members might be surprised, and I know this from past discussions and debates, that there are many countries around the world we export to. It is not just the United States. The products that are pulled from Canada's oceans are well recognized. I believe there was a time when there was an idea to fly fresh lobster from either Nova Scotia or New Brunswick directly to France because the demand for fresh Canadian lobster was so high. There is a very real market. We are talking about literally hundreds to thousands of direct and indirect jobs. I suspect we will see during debate of the member's piece of legislation many contributions that will hopefully allow for us to have an informed vote when the time comes. We will have to wait and see whether it ultimately passes. The member is fortunate in the sense that he is in the first draw, which allows the member to ensure the legislation will, in fact, be voted on. There might be an opportunity to see it go to committee. We will have to wait and see. One of the things I do know is that there are members in all political parties who are taking a look at the issue of pinnipeds populations, because it is not just seals, as we can factor in walruses and so forth. They are having this huge impact. I can appreciate that the impact is probably the most significant in Atlantic Canada. I do not want people to lose sight of the fact that one does not have to be from Atlantic Canada to care about the industry. I would like to see the advancement, as I said earlier, of a seal industry. I think we can improve our seal industry here in Canada. It might be colleagues of mine who will wear a seal tie. In fact, I do not have perfect eyesight, but the member opposite might be wearing a seal tie because it seems to have that gloss to it. There are many products out there. I think there is a potential demand, but we have to work with the different partners and stakeholders, whether they are indigenous people, environmentalists or industry reps. We need to make smart decisions on this industry. It is worth billions and involves thousands of both direct and indirect jobs.

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