44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 1, 2022 02:00PM
- Jun/1/22 7:39:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs has discussed this matter with her Turkish counterparts. Sweden and Finland will undoubtedly be assets to the alliance. We encourage our allies to promptly support their membership. As I said, there is no time to waste. It is very important that we support our allies in this application.
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- Jun/1/22 7:42:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do not have a question, as much as just a comment for the parliamentary secretary to get on the record here.
Having served and been with the members of the armed forces of both Sweden and Finland, I can attest to their competency and professionalism and the asset they will be when they join NATO. It is just something that I warmly welcome. I know they will be a great addition to the NATO alliance, and it is something that I think is so vital, considering Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.
I just wanted to get that on the record. I think this is the right thing for us to be doing as a Parliament and as the House of Commons. I appreciate having the opportunity to speak to it tonight.
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- Jun/1/22 7:53:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Sweden and Finland will undoubtedly be assets to this alliance. We know this. We encourage our allies, all of our allies, including Turkey, to promptly support their membership. We are moving quickly. I would point out that the fact we are speaking here today on this to move the process through as quickly as possible is proof of that. There is no time to waste. We know that this is usually a very lengthy process. Speeding up this process as much as we possibly can, as quickly as we can, is what we want to do here today.
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- Jun/1/22 8:08:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member across the way is also my geographic neighbour, with Guelph and Wellington—Halton Hills being so close together.
I was listening with interest to his discussion of the neutrality of Sweden and Finland. They have had a formal neutrality for many years, but in 1995 they joined the EU and I think in 1995 they clearly indicated that they were becoming part of an economic alliance that we already have. In fact, our government has signed a trade agreement with Europe: the CETA agreement. We have a formal economic tie with the EU members.
Could the hon. member comment on how having that economic tie can also benefit the alliance through NATO that we are looking at now?
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- Jun/1/22 8:12:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we know that NATO is in fact a security alliance of some countries. The member talks a lot about the investment in NATO, but what about investment in other multilateral institutions that would work toward a more peaceful future and not just peacekeeping but peace-building? Would he be as supportive of investment in those institutions as he is of NATO?
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- Jun/1/22 8:23:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was picturing the Nordic alliance that Sweden tried to form after the Second World War. Denmark and Norway instead went into NATO. There was an economic isolation with Finland and Sweden.
Now, with their economic ties with the EU and the EU's economic ties with Canada, could the hon. member comment on the coverage that we are giving for this economically so that militarily they can join the military alliance?
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- Jun/1/22 8:38:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this evening I have been asking questions relating to economic alliances versus military and other types of alliances. The member from the Bloc has given us a good intervention tonight. There were questions from the Bloc about Turkey's involvement in all of this, so maybe I could ask her about this.
The trade between Russia and Turkey is significant. I think Turkey is the fourth-largest export market for Russia. Turkey also does a lot of work with Russia.
Could the member comment on the need for economic ties between Turkey and western democracies to increase in order to bring Turkey back into the alliance militarily?
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- Jun/1/22 9:09:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, when I think of Canadians, there is no doubt in my mind that the concept of world peace is a wonderful thing. There is no doubt that anything we can do to move in that direction is a positive thing.
When we think of the NATO alliance and its important role, which has really been amplified because of what is taking place in Europe today, one of the greatest demands that came from Ukraine was getting lethal weapons. Over the years, Canada has been challenged to say that we need to increase our contribution to things such as lethal weapons by, it was suggested, 2%. I am very much interested in the member's thoughts regarding Canada's potential leadership role in investing that 2% of GDP.
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- Jun/1/22 9:28:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it was such an amazing event with so much information that it is hard to pick one thing after the many reports that we heard.
When we hear from all the different countries, to me it is very important to make sure that people understand that the countries have different thoughts and opinions on working out issues. There is a lot of discussion today about Turkey and how important it is for all of our countries to start to work to get Turkey to the next step. That is why we have to focus on the idea of an alliance. An alliance is like having a big family. Sometimes people agree and sometimes people disagree, but if we are going to come together when we need to, we will have to work together.
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- Jun/1/22 9:45:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are debating something that I think and hope we can look to some consensus on. I will confess that it is a tough issue for Green Party members to talk about NATO.
For us, questions about NATO are difficult and complicated because of our deep commitment to peace and the principles of non-violence.
I am part of a global party. It does not come up very often in this place that I am a member of Parliament in Canada, within a family of global Greens. One of those global Greens is Pekka Haavisto, who is Finland's Minister for Foreign Affairs and a very germane part of the debate tonight. Up until December, a friend of mine, Per Bolund, co-leader of the Green Party of Sweden, was Sweden's deputy prime minister, but the Swedish Greens just left the Swedish coalition, for reasons I need not get into here.
As Greens, we have a profound commitment to peace and non-violence, which means, to say it just as clearly as I can, that I am no fan of NATO. Greens are not, generally, because it is a military. It is a defensive alliance, but it is not without issues for those of us who are committed to non-violence. It has been an issue for us to know that we absolutely, unequivocally believe that Vladimir Putin is solely responsible for Russia's attack on Ukraine and we are on the side of Ukraine and Ukrainians. We are supportive of every action our government has taken, but it is not without difficulty for us.
How do Greens feel about Canada being in NATO? In an ideal world, when the Warsaw Pact ended, NATO would have ended too. That is how we see it. NATO's continued involvement in the world does create tensions that we probably would not have needed if, and this is a big “if” and one of the main things I want to talk about tonight, we had had the former Soviet Union and the United States pursue nuclear disarmament. When Mikhail Gorbachev was championing perestroika and glasnost, he also picked up the phone and called former U.S. President Ronald Reagan. He asked, “Do you want to end nuclear weapons, because I do?” Ronald Reagan said, “I do too.” By the way, the reason I know this is that Mikhail Gorbachev told that story to a small group of people in a room in Rio de Janeiro at Rio+5. I was there because I was part of a committee that Mikhail Gorbachev co-chaired.
However, in the years that followed, the efforts toward nuclear disarmament faltered. I believe that Donald Trump was a puppet of Vladimir Putin and the two of them decided, or at least Putin decided, “Let's not get rid of nuclear weapons. Let's slow down the talks. Let's not have nuclear non-proliferation discussions anymore. Let's not have nuclear disarmament discussions anymore.” It has made the world less safe.
This is in the context of Vladimir Putin and Russia's completely illegal war. I mean, wars are generally illegal. It is hard to know when a war is exactly legal because many of them are founded on lies: the Vietnam War, the Iraq War. We can make up a story about why we need to attack this other country, but there are some wars that we know were morally justified, such as the allied forces confronting fascism in the Second World War. Many of our parents, my parents and many people in this room had family members engaged in that war. As the member for Scarborough—Guildwood just said, it is the young people who suffer in wars. It is the young people who die, but with some wars we can see the moral justification. In this case, supporting Ukraine really matters.
However, I question what Canada should be doing in NATO. I want to share that with all of my colleagues as I conclude my remarks. Spoiler alert, I will agree with the motion that Finland and Sweden should be supported in joining NATO, because that is what they ask for right now. As I said, my colleagues in the global Green Party, global Green parliamentarians, asked for that. We respect the decisions made within countries by our colleagues in the Green Party. There is no question from the Greens that we support that Finland and Sweden should be supported in joining NATO.
However, let me ask this question. The budget of 2022 said clearly that we are going to have a foreign policy review. In that foreign policy review, I hope we will ask this question: Should Canada stay in NATO?
Why is it an advantage for Canada to be a member of NATO?
It may be an advantage, but this century's greatest threat to our safety is not a military one. It is the threat of climate change. Climate change is a greater threat to our future than all the military powers of the world.
Why would we stay in NATO? I believe we should stay in NATO to advocate for nuclear disarmament. We would play an important role in saying to our NATO partners that the world is less safe because of nuclear weapons. If we had succeeded where Mikhail Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan had hoped to go and where Lester B. Pearson would have hoped to go, and if we had moved to remove nuclear weapons, how much more effective would we be now to help Ukraine?
When President Zelenskyy asked us, in this space, on Zoom, for a no-fly zone, we knew we could not do it because we are NATO partners and Vladimir Putin has threatened the use of nuclear weapons. If we had been a non-aligned, neutral nation, could we have done more? NATO itself is, in a sense, muscle-bound. It has so many armies and it has nuclear weapons. It cannot confront Russia without threatening what we always heard about in the Cold War, the strategy of nuclear weapons and mutually assured destruction. There is no future or hope in that.
In this instance tonight, for the first time that I have ever had a chance to speak in this place about NATO, I would say to all of my colleagues here, let us look at what makes the world safer. The world will be safer when nuclear weapons are eliminated. We have now before us, and it has taken legal effect, the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. Enough countries around the world, nation-states, have signed on, but none of the nuclear powers have signed on and Canada has not even signed on to be an observer to the conversation.
At the end of this month, June 20-22 in Vienna, will be the first state-party gathering under the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. I know that my colleague here from Edmonton Strathcona and I, as well as a senator from the other place, plan to go to Vienna. We hope our government will be there as a delegation. We hope we sign on.
In the meantime, as we examine this question, Finland and Sweden have been made less secure by Russia's assault on Ukraine. We have to do two things at all times: We have to defend Ukraine and do everything we can to put pressure on Russia to get to a peace talk and to get to a ceasefire; and we have to look beyond the immediate conflict in Ukraine and say, “How do we make the world safer?” We make the world safer when nuclear weapons are abolished.
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- Jun/1/22 10:00:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is indeed an honour to join everyone tonight virtually to talk about NATO and the application for membership to NATO by Finland and Sweden. It is something I hope we can strongly support unanimously in this chamber to send a strong message to all allies in the NATO alliance and hopefully convince those who are somewhat hesitant to accept the membership applications from Finland and Sweden.
We know that Sweden and Finland have been closely co-operating with NATO and the European Union's collective defence agreement for quite some time. They have modern militaries, modern economies and very progressive societies that we all appreciate and admire. There is no reason to reject their applications to NATO.
We know that both Finland and Sweden have been non-aligned, neutral nations since the end of World War II, but that has dramatically changed with Putin's illegal invasion, Russia's war, and the war crimes and atrocities being committed in Ukraine. Of course, our thoughts, prayers and efforts are to help Ukraine win this war. We know that the entire NATO alliance is doing everything it can and is nervous about how this is going to play out.
This means countries that do not have the ability to be part of the strong alliance we have through NATO want to join. Although there may be some naysayers out there who are going to say this is NATO enlargement pushing farther toward Russia's border, nothing could be further from the truth. These are independent countries that want to make sure they can take advantage of what we enjoy and take for granted here in Canada, which is deterrence through our collective defence.
Article 5 almost guarantees that no NATO member will ever be invaded by a foreign nation such as the Russian Federation. Vladimir Putin is at the helm of the Russian Federation and has control of the criminal organization within the Kremlin, the kleptocrats. He has been running a mafia-styled organization with a very disturbing philosophy and revisionist history that he is trying to force upon the world.
His demented reasoning for invading Ukraine cannot go unchecked, but that means the Baltic nations and Arctic nations that share space with Russia are increasingly concerned. That is why there has been a change of heart so quickly. In a matter of three months, we have seen Sweden and Finland make this historic application for membership 73 years after the beginning of the NATO alliance.
I want to thank the foreign affairs committee for doing this work, putting together this report and giving us this opportunity to express, as parliamentarians and ultimately as the Government of Canada, our support for their membership applications.
Let us look at why they are so nervous and why they made this decision to join with other Baltic nations that already enjoy this alliance, such at Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Poland. We know that these nations have all joined over the last 25 years. We also know that Canada has been playing a major role in Latvia as part of NATO's enhanced forward presence, and increasing military deterrence activities within Latvia, leading several other nations in a battle group there.
The more we can do to bolster the defences of eastern Europe, the safer we are here at home. We are an Arctic nation; we share territory with Russia. It is good to know the United States, Canada and Norway, which are already NATO members, will now be joined by two more Arctic nations, Finland and Sweden, in this alliance. We can hopefully bring Russia back into a reasonable conversation, after it leaves Ukrainian sovereign territory, about how best to move forward to protect the Arctic, do search and rescue and make other investments in the Arctic area.
Canada needs to do more for Ukraine. We are watching this war on a daily basis, and it continues to pull at all our heartstrings. We know this is more than a tragedy: An atrocity has been committed.
We have been talking about Bucha and what has happened in Mariupol. Hospitals, schools, seniors homes and maternity wards have been intentionally targeted. We know that Putin and his henchmen within the Russian army have been committing these crimes against humanity, and they have been ordered from the top down. Everyone who is responsible for those atrocities must be held to account. I am glad to see that Ukraine's public prosecutor is putting together all the evidence to take to the Hague in front of the International Criminal Court. Canada needs to assist in that every step of the way.
For quite a while, the Conservatives have been calling on the Liberal government to do more to help Ukraine. The humanitarian corridors need to be implemented by giving Ukraine anti-air and air defence systems so that it can ensure its airspace is protected and so that those fleeing war zones can get to safety and humanitarian assistance and relief can get into besieged cities such as Kharkiv.
We know that Ukraine has been asking for more armoured vehicles. We have asked many times in the House, and I asked it again just a couple of weeks ago, why Canada is not sending its about-to-be-retired light armoured vehicles: our Bisons, Coyotes, Kodiaks and M113 Tracked LAVs. All of those are going to be decommissioned over the next year, and the replacement vehicles are already built and sitting in London, Ontario, waiting to be accredited. In that tranche of light armoured vehicles, there are 32 armoured ambulances as part of the LAV II configuration that could be sent to Ukraine, which desperately needs them right now.
The government knows those light armoured vehicles would save lives, but for whatever reason, the Minister of National Defence and the Minister of Foreign Affairs have not moved on sending these LAVs, which could easily be donated by Canada as they are in good working order.
We have also asked the government to—
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- Jun/1/22 10:11:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we all know that NATO is by far not only the strongest defence alliance, it is also one of the most active political alliances in the world. Much can be done through deterrence measures because of the military strength that NATO possesses, and because of that it is able to come to the table as an organization and as a group of allies to talk about political realities, and it is able to bring about peace much more quickly than other international organizations.
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- Jun/1/22 10:27:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member brings up a good point when it comes to the situation regarding Turkey. Certainly I would suggest that the statement that this place, Canada's House of Commons, can make in terms of support for Finland's and Sweden's memberships in NATO is significant and can show, with a unified voice, that this conversation does matter and that there could be very real consequences, not only for Turkey but for the peace and security of our world, if it were to interfere with what appears to be, from my reading of the situation across NATO, the admission of these two countries into the alliance.
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