44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 20, 2022 11:00AM
Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that my colleague does not love one of the best authors of all time.
To his points, I actually agree 100% that we need to be harsh on people who are taking advantage of others. We put these amendments forward.
To his point about the witnesses, 40% of the witnesses did not agree with this bill. I would put it back to him and ask him if he thinks this bill is ready. Does he think this bill is ready for legislation when 40% of the witnesses have said it was not?
In my opinion, we have something significant that has not been touched in 31 years. The Liberals are ready to ram it through without more careful consideration. It is going to change how we consume and create everyday media. I would like to be a little more thorough than that.
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This is just a reminder that we have now hit five hours of debate. All of the speeches from this point on are automatically 10 minutes with five minutes of questions and answers.
Resuming debate, the hon. member for Richmond Hill.
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Mr. Speaker, it is indeed an honour to stand in the House once again to represent my constituents of Richmond Hill. As I join you from the national capital region, I respectfully acknowledge that the land on which I am located today is the traditional ancestral unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.
The government is committed to implementing its digital and cultural policy agenda, which would serve Canadian interests not only today, but also well into the future. It would support our cultural and artistic ecosystem, including our many talented creative sector workers. This is urgently needed.
Today, I am pleased to speak to important elements of the online streaming act. First, I will have the pleasure of talking about the Canadian independent producers and the important role that they play. Second, I want to talk about the importance of ensuring that Canadians can find and access Canadian stories and music.
Delaying Bill C-11 would do harm to our production industry. It would leave the creative ecosystem in a very uncertain and difficult place without support and predictable funding for Canadian programs. Ultimately, the online streaming act aims to foster an environment where Canadian music and stories can thrive and be discovered. The time to act is now, and there is a lot at stake.
Turning an idea into a cultural product is no simple task. From coast to coast to coast, our creatives have undeniable talent and unparalleled work ethics. Canada's independent producers are an example of this.
A Canadian independent producer is a Canadian person or entity, usually a corporation, that creates an audiovisual media project that is not owned or controlled by a broadcaster or a distributor. In other words, independent producers make movies, TV shows and documentaries that are not subject to creative controls by a TV channel, network, streaming service or cable company. They are crucial to creative risk-taking, authentic storytelling and diverse representation in our audiovisual sector.
In film and television, independent productions cover a wide range of formats and genres, from art house films to popular animated kids shows and everything in between. To successfully realize a project, independent producers do many things. They invest in development, make pitches, secure financing, hire creative and technical teams, scout locations, and navigate complex trade, tax and labour arrangements to make projects happen. Not surprisingly, Canadian independent producers often work closely with Canadian musicians for scores and soundtracks.
There are over 600 independent production companies in Canada, most of them small and surviving project to project. In 2019-20, Canadian independent film and television accounted for $2.9 billion in production volume and more than 81,000 jobs. Many of these independent production companies are undercapitalized and often face difficulty obtaining project financing. In Canada, once a finished project is in hand, all the rights for its creative elements are clear. The producers can then make money, but it is risky business with a lot of upfront costs.
While we may recognize some Canadian landmarks in the background of some American productions, these companies work with Canadian talent below the line: the “best boys”, “grips” and “gaffers” listed in movie credits. They work with our visual effects, post-production and virtual production studios, who are valuable without a doubt.
However, Canadian productions, and specifically independent Canadian productions, are important for ensuring that the cultural industry investments touch down and take root in the places where our stories come from. For example, just one season of Heartland spent over $28 million on production, saw each dollar of federal tax incentive produce more than $11 in GDP, and hired more than 1,400 vendors across Alberta.
Independent Canadian productions also tell untold stories and develop diverse programming. Diversity is one of Canadians' greatest strength. Without independent producers taking risks, we would never have films such as Water in Hindi or Edge of the Knife in the endangered Haida language.
Our stories and our creative talent are at the heart of the online streaming act. The legislation lists several important factors for the CRTC to consider in its definition of Canadian programs, such as, for example, collaboration between Canadian producers, Canadian ownership and exploitation of IP by Canadians. This would give the commission the flexibility to require all types of broadcasting undertakings, including online streaming services, to financially contribute to the development of Canadian programs and talent. That is what Canada's important independent production sector needs to continue to thrive.
A strong independent production sector ensures Canadian stories are told by and for Canadians. However, it is not enough to encourage the production side alone. It is important that Canadians can find and access Canadian stories and music as well. As we see more of ourselves reflected in these popular mediums, it creates a sense of pride and a sense of unity, precisely when we need them during these difficult times.
The influx of streaming programs has meant access to endless content, but it can be difficult to find or even recognize Canadian programs. This is in part because online platforms are not required to showcase Canadian programs in the same way as the traditional broadcasters. Our independent productions, and especially Canadian music, deserve to be discovered and supported. However, in the current context, it is challenging for independent producers to remain visible in the marketplace.
Word-of-mouth marketing is no longer sufficient. Our musical tastes are increasingly dictated by algorithms. What we are asking for has proven successful in the past. Forty-one years ago, the federal government stepped in with requirements for CanCon to save our singers and musicians from being lost to the radio hits from the United States.
Without prominence, Canadian stories and songs will not be discovered, heard or remunerated. The intent behind showcasing Canadian stories and music is not to limit consumer choice, but to help raise the profile of Canadian artists. Regulation would not prevent Canadians from accessing programs from around the world. It would give us greater opportunity to discover local ones. The CRTC would work directly with platforms to determine how they can best showcase more Canadian content.
Discoverability is a tool to help audiences find Canadian works. It would ultimately be up to the commission, as the expert, independent regulator, to craft discoverability requirements that are appropriate for different types of online streaming services. The commission's scope is limited in the bill and would be further guided by the government's policy direction, as is common practice.
In closing, whether we are individual fans and consumers, career showrunners and artists, or industry players, the truth is that we are all invested in the vibrancy of Canadian stories and music. We need Canadian stories and songs to be available and accessible to Canadians. With the online streaming act, we will not just hope but plan for meaningful and sustainable change for our broadcasting and audiovisual sectors, and the production and distribution ecosystem that supports them.
This bill would provide Canadian creators and independent producers the opportunity to own, control and monetize their work, and gives Canadian stories and music a fighting chance to reach the Canadian audience that wants to hear or see them. I urge all members of the House to support the online streaming act. It is time for us to work together to ensue that our cultural sector remains strong, resilient, competitive and representative of our beautiful country.
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Mr. Speaker, broadcasters in Canada for decades have been funding Canadian content in Canada and have been paying taxes, yet web giants like Netflix have been doing neither. What we need is a digital services tax. The Liberals have been kicking that down the road for years.
My question is simple. When will the government implement a digital services tax so that we can have a level playing field, at least in that regard, for our broadcasters?
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Mr. Speaker, I think it is less about implementing that tax right away and more about putting the proper elements and structure into place to be able to move in that direction. As my hon. colleague talked about, it is about making sure there is a level playing field. That is exactly what the intent of this bill is: making sure that not only do we put the proper pillars and drivers in place for that playing field, but also that we empower the CRTC to administer it.
All bills go through review. Hopefully, when the time comes to review this bill, we will be in a position to further evaluate the possibility of the tax that my colleague is talking about.
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Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate my colleague's comments. It is the first time I have heard him speak in the House. I really appreciated the tenor he brought to this debate. Let me ask this question. He brought up the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission and its role in this legislation. Right now, that body has had less and less to do and it is becoming somewhat irrelevant. In this case, we are looking at actually changing net neutrality because so much is delivered over the net here.
I would ask the member to please tell me this, if he could. How many people does he think will be employed at the CRTC to make sure it can go through all this content? They will need to make sure it meets the standards that they will set, obviously under the auspices of the government. Does he foresee a time when the number of people working for the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission will exceed the number of artists actually providing input into the system?
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Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member was in the House when I was delivering the speech. I have been intervening in the House for a number of years.
It is not so much about how many people will be employed by the CRTC. It is the fact that the CRTC will be empowered and in a position to administer the bill, while collaboratively working with producers to ensure that Canadian content is not only developed but highlighted and properly compensated. It will not necessarily be all the content from social media and various platforms that will be subjected to that rule.
When we look at it, although the amount of content that is being tabled is a lot, the content producers are the ones who the CRTC will work with. They make up a much smaller number than the content creators. That will determine, as time goes on, how many people will be needed.
That was a hypothetical question, but I think it is a question that is worth taking note of.
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Mr. Speaker, quickly, I am wondering if my colleague can provide his thoughts on the importance of passing the legislation to modernize the public broadcasting act. It has been many, many years, going back to the early nineties. Back then, the Internet was a pretty slow thing.
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Mr. Speaker, honestly, I got married in 1990. This bill was passed in 1991, a year after I got married. Today, when we celebrate, we take a video that we can post online and on WhatsApp.
The key thing is that it is time for us because the content developers are developing Canadian content at a much faster rate. That needs to be acknowledged and fairly compensated.
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- Jun/20/22 11:37:54 p.m.
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- Re: Bill S-7
I have the honour to inform the House that a message has been received from the Senate informing this House that the Senate has passed the following bill, to which the concurrence of the House is desired: Bill S-7, An Act to amend the Customs Act and the Preclearance Act, 2016.
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Mr. Speaker, it has been very interesting to take part in tonight's discussion and hear the different views expressed. I am happy to have what I believe will be the last word tonight on the matter, on Bill C-11.
At the heart of it is culture and questions around culture. That is the way we make sense of ourselves and our place in the world as individuals and also as members of communities on a local level and on a national level as Canadians. In this, storytelling is particularly key. I would add storytelling by artists plays a special role as well. If there is such a thing as Canadian identity, and I believe there is, our artists have helped to shape it. They have played a fundamental role and continue to do so.
If we think about music, can we tell the Canadian story without looking at The Guess Who, for example, or The Tragically Hip? What about television? Murdoch Mysteries comes to mind, for example, and North of 60. We can name a number of other Canadian programs. My father would always talk about The Beachcombers, which I am not too familiar with, but it looks as though the Speaker is. If we think of film, there is Bon Cop Bad Cop. There are other good examples as well, but that one stands out for a number of members.
Talent explains why each of these became a success. The talent of the producers involved, the artists themselves, the musicians, the actors and all those around is at the top of the list for sure. Another factor that is key to their success is the fact we have a system in Canada that promotes Canadian culture and recognizes the importance of it.
As a condition of their licences, Canadian television and radio broadcasting companies have needed to ensure a space for Canadian content. In Canada, we have the CanCon rules, or the Canadian content rules, where 40% of radio content, for example, must include content of Canadians, and 55% of television content must be Canadian. Radio and television companies also need to pay into the Canada Media Fund.
We have had this system in place for decades. This has long been expected of radio and television companies. On top of that, there is also the fact they have had to pay into the Canada Media Fund. That is an important point to recognize as well.
Here is why Bill C-11 matters. What has been expected of Canadian radio and television organizations for decades would now be expected of streaming organizations such as Netflix, YouTube and Spotify, for example. We need to recognize this is 2022. The last time the Broadcasting Act was modernized was in 1991.
I was in Mrs. Bryne's grade 4 class sitting next to my friends Rob DeVries, Sarah Wuerth and Julie Hearn. Members will not know those names, but those I just mentioned, who were part of those classes, will know what that means exactly and how far back we go. That was grade 4. We have not updated our regulations since then, and we need to.
We need to recognize where we are in Canada's trajectory or how we have evolved as a society. Streaming organizations now play a fundamental role, even more important than radio and television, in terms of content creation. When we talk about our storytellers we look to YouTube, Netflix and Spotify. They play a very important role in that regard.
Recognizing this, the bill puts forward measures in an according fashion so we can keep up and continue to support our artists. The alternative, which I know is favoured by my friends in the opposition, is to allow the free market to reign and allow every individual Canadian artist to compete on their own merits, but to put them up against the mammoth that is the American entertainment industry.
I truly believe in this, and this should not even be a debate. In fact, if we go back to The Tragically Hip, which I mentioned before, its members themselves have made the argument that, were it not for CanCon rules, their success would not have been seen. This is because they would have been up against Pearl Jam and Nirvana. They would have been up against Radiohead, and we can name other examples, on their own, but they were given supports to be on the radio and be promoted in that way. I mentioned a few television series before. Those Canadian programs that are a signature of Canadian culture were supported by the CanCon rules.
For all those reasons, we have to look to our past and learn from it, but also modernize and keep up with the times. Bill C-11 does that by ensuring that streaming organizations do their fair share to ensure a level playing field, support Canadian artists and pay into the Canada media fund. These are not unreasonable expectations of organizations such as Netflix, YouTube and so on, which are doing so well. Obviously, if they are benefiting, they can do their part to support Canadian culture and cultural production in Canada.
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Mr. Speaker, one of the important aspects of this bill is ensuring that web giants pay their fair share and that money is there for our cultural workers and the Canadian broadcasters that have not been on a level playing field. Unfortunately, the big web giants still do not actually pay their fair share.
There is a need for a digital services tax. The Liberal government has been delaying implementing legislation on a digital services tax, and I am curious if the member would speak to his commitment to ensuring that the web giants truly pay their fair share.
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Mr. Speaker, every company has to pay their fair share. I look forward to engaging more with NDP members, as I think all members on this side of the aisle do, on that matter to get their thoughts. I know where they stand, but let us collaborate, let us listen and let us work toward a fair playing environment, if I can put it that way, in terms of the digital creators the member is so concerned about.
Here, we are talking about Bill C-11. It is a good bill. I know the NDP supports it, and I appreciate that.
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- Jun/20/22 11:45:48 p.m.
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Before we close, I just want to say that as Speaker, when I find out what people were doing in 1991, it starts to upset me just a bit. I think I am a little older than some of the folks who were speaking tonight.
It being 11:46 p.m., pursuant to order made on Monday, June 13, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the third reading stage of the bill now before the House.
The question is on the amendment.
If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the amendment be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the chair.
The hon. member for Perth—Wellington.
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- Jun/20/22 11:47:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think you will find consent to adopt it on division.
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- Jun/20/22 11:47:12 p.m.
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The hon. member for Winnipeg North.
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- Jun/20/22 11:47:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I suspect not. I request a recorded division.
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Pursuant to order made on Thursday, November 25, 2021, the recorded division stands deferred until Tuesday, June 21, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.
The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader has a point of order.
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- Jun/20/22 11:47:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I suspect if you were to canvass the House, you would find unanimous consent to call it midnight so the House can adjourn.
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- Jun/20/22 11:47:58 p.m.
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Is it agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
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