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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Oct/3/22 3:50:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. During question period, I received word of the passing of Stephen Soll, a lawyer in my riding. I had the honour of being called to the bar in British Columbia on the same day as his son. I would like to recognize his distinguished career and his advocacy, and give his family and loved ones my best wishes. In terms of a comment, I would like to express gratitude to my colleague to my right for the advocacy he presents to the House, just as Mr. Soll presented for his clients.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis

Oct/3/22 3:50:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I agree there is so much more work that needs to continue to be done to stand with Ukraine, address this invasion and combat this unprecedented aggression. We will continue to call on the government to step up further and, in particular, condemn these referenda and cancel the sanctions waiver that was granted to the Gazprom turbines.

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Hon. Michael Chong (Wellington—Halton Hills, CPC)

Oct/3/22 3:51:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the referenda Russia conducted in Ukraine were a sham. The referenda held in the four eastern oblasts of Kherson, Donetsk, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia were a sham. First, they were only conducted in parts of those four eastern oblasts because Russian miliary forces only control parts of those four eastern oblasts. Second, these referenda were held under force and duress. Voters were coerced to vote. Armed Russian soldiers went door to door to collect the ballots. In many cases, ballots were filled out by Russian soldiers themselves instead of by the households that received them, and there was only vote given per household. In other words, many individuals in households where there were more than one adult were denied the right to vote. Clearly, the results of these four referenda are a sham. A real referendum, however, was held in these four eastern regions of Ukraine in 1991, and in that legitimate referendum of that year, these regions overwhelmingly voted to be independent of Russia and to be part of an independent Ukraine. Eighty-three per cent of people in Kherson in 1991 voted for independence, along with 83% of people in Donetsk, 90% of people in Luhansk and 90% of people in Zaporizhzhia. After these sham referenda were conducted by Russia in parts of these four regions, it illegally annexed these four regions exactly as it did with Crimea some eight years ago, in 2014. These illegal annexations and sham referenda have descended into farce. Today, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said that Russia does not know where Russia's international border is with Ukraine in eastern Ukraine only days after Vladimir Putin proclaimed the annexation of these four eastern oblasts. Let us think about that. It has annexed territory, on its own terms, that has no clearly defined boundary. This is even more of a farce because the Ukrainian army is actively liberating the very territory that Vladimir Putin claims to have annexed. The liberation of towns like Lyman the day after Putin annexed it shows how ridiculous these illegal referenda and annexations are. In fact, word is coming over social media and through news reports that parts of the Russian front in eastern Ukraine are in total collapse. These sham referenda and illegal annexations are actually indicative of something else. They are indicative of Vladimir Putin's complete and utter desperation. It is a sign of desperation that four referenda were held in the chaos of a collapsing front in eastern Ukraine. The front is collapsing as Russian soldiers flee back toward Russia. It is a sign of desperation that, in the middle of the chaos of the Russian army collapsing in eastern Ukraine, Putin proclaimed the annexation of these four eastern Ukrainian oblasts. It is a sign of desperation that Vladimir Putin has initiated a mass mobilization. It is clear that none of these things is going to help Vladimir Putin in eastern Ukraine, as the Ukrainian army, with the support of the west, is valiantly fighting the unjust and illegal war of Russia in Ukraine. It is clear that all Vladimir Putin has left is the threat of a nuclear war. Russia's nuclear doctrine has long reserved the right to use tactical nuclear weapons defensively, but this is a war of offence, not defence, no matter how Vladimir Putin tries to spin it. However, the Kremlin's inability to articulate and communicate a red line means that Ukraine will press on to retake the territory wrongfully taken from it in eastern Ukraine, the very regions that Russia has claimed to annex. It means that Russia's threats to go nuclear are unclear. It also means that we are, as the west, unable to respond to these nuclear threats. Because these threats are vague and unclear, it is not possible for western powers, in particular the great western power of the United States and others, to respond to them other than by capitulation to Vladimir Putin, a capitulation that would set a very dangerous precedent for the future. It would allow every future rogue leader or rogue state to use the threat of a nuclear strike to get their way and to undermine all the order and stability that have been built up over the last eight decades. This would essentially lead to a state of anarchy and a state where the world would be extremely unstable for decades to come. That is precisely why I encourage members to support the report by voting for the motion to concur it in. These referenda were a sham, these annexations were illegal, the mass mobilization is a sign of desperation and the nuclear threat that Vladimir Putin is directing to the world is not something that is possible for us to respond to. We need to take a stand as a House on the very serious and existential matter in front of us and indicate clearly that these referenda and these annexations were illegal, that they cannot be allowed to be recognized anywhere in the world, that the referenda, the annexations and the mass mobilization are a sign of desperation, and, finally, that the threat of going nuclear by President Putin is not a threat the west can do something with because it is vague and unclear as to where the red lines are. For all those reasons, I think this matter is serious enough for the House to be seized with and serious enough that it should go to a vote. The House should make its declaration of support of this report from the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

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Hon. Robert Oliphant (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 3:59:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his speech. I thought it was thoughtful and important and added to the dignity of this House. In the member's closing remark, he talked about the importance of ensuring that no country in the world accepts the illegal annexation of those four territories. Is he then implying that it would be important for us to maintain our links with allies on everything to ensure that we are in concert with all our allies on issues? I raise the issue of Gazprom on that point and making sure that we are working in concert with our allies not only on the non-recognition of these illegally annexed territories, but on every other issue that we need to share our energy on.

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/3/22 4:00:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, with respect, I disagree with the government's decision on the gas turbines. To be frank, both the Republic of Germany and Canada were duped by the Russians in being convinced to waive the sanctions to send the gas turbines back to Gazprom. The fact is that since the decision has been taken, Russia has proven the point. NATO has concluded that Russia was behind the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline through the Baltic Sea into Germany. Russia clearly has no interest in resurrecting this pipeline if it was willing to essentially blow up parts of it, which are leaking dangerous amounts of methane and gas into the atmosphere and the Baltic Sea. It was the wrong decision taken by both the German and Canadian governments. I think in hindsight, as it was at the time, that is clear, since Russia itself, as NATO has concluded, has sabotaged the very pipeline that these turbines were purportedly going to keep open.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Oct/3/22 4:01:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when it comes to holding a referendum where people are cheated, that is always an extremely sensitive subject, especially for us. With respect to President Putin's nuclear threat at a time like this when our environment is already not faring so well, the member said that we are unable to respond. We need to respond, not with a nuclear threat, but in other ways. I would like to know what diplomatic means could bring the allies together to prevent the disastrous use of nuclear weapons.

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/3/22 4:02:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from the Bloc Québécois for her question. In my opinion, diplomacy does not work with Russia. The only approach that works with Vladimir Putin is military action. That is clear. We used a lot of diplomacy before the war in Ukraine, but that did not work. Now, we are in a situation where military intervention is the only way to convince the Russians to end the war in Ukraine. At this point, unfortunately, kinetic action as opposed to diplomacy is the only way forward to contain Vladimir Putin and his nuclear threats. Because he has been unclear in his nuclear threats, it is not possible for us to respond in any way, because he has not laid down the red lines for exactly what would constitute the trigger for using a tactical nuclear weapon.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/3/22 4:03:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member has been here long enough to remember that Canadian members of Parliament, such as Dave Christopherson, went to Ukraine to help build a voting system. I want to recognize that and have him briefly reflect on it, because I do not think a lot of people remember how many members of Parliament actually went to help build Ukraine's democracy, which has now been proven to be a sham in some regions with Russia's vote.

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Hon. Michael Chong

Oct/3/22 4:04:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague and friend from Windsor West, in southwestern Ontario, for his question. We have worked on a number of things in this House together over the years. My colleague is exactly right. It is not just the contributions we have had in building civil society and democratic capacity in Ukraine. It is also contributions we have made in building the capacity of the Ukrainian military over the last decade, which obviously have come to bear fruit in its campaign to oust Russia from Ukraine.

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Hon. Robert Oliphant (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 4:04:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Winnipeg North. It has been over 200 days since Russia's President Putin launched his illegal, unjustifiable and despicable invasion of Ukraine. With each day that passes, the number of civilians, including children, killed and wounded, now in the thousands, continues to climb. On a global scale, the consequences of Russia's military aggression are being felt by all. The war has contributed to rising food costs. The world is concerned about food supplies and energy insecurity. We see the consequences on populations, especially in the global south, which are the most vulnerable and the most affected. At the same time, Russia continues to weaponize its energy resources as tools for coercion. In Ukraine, as the battle continues, we are witnessing human rights violations, conflict-related sexual violence and the aftermath of brazen atrocities, including the recent discovery of mass graves in Izium. The ongoing destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure, including its energy grid and civilian infrastructure such as schools and hospitals, is of grave concern. However, the brave and resilient Ukrainian people continue to fight with extraordinary courage, passion and dignity for their country, their communities and their families. As has been said often in this House, Canada's ties with the people of Ukraine are historical, deep and important. That is why we were the first western country to recognize Ukraine's independence just over 30 years ago, and it is why we have been increasingly engaged in supporting its fragile democracy as it grows into and becomes the democratic country that we are now seeing emerge. We have also developed a strong diplomatic relationship fuelled by a passionate and engaged Ukrainian diaspora of over 1.4 million people in Canada. In 2014, thousands of Ukrainians stood up for a democratic future during the revolution of dignity. Canada supported the many activists, human rights defenders and civil society organizations that fought tirelessly for a free and democratic future. We continue to work with them today in response to Putin's brutality. Canada condemns the sham referendums that Russia organized in the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, which were used as a basis for Putin's illegal annexation. They will not be respected, they are not valid and they are unjust. They are shams. These are phony exercises with predetermined results and have zero legitimacy. Ukraine's borders will not change. Let me be clear. Donetsk is Ukraine. Luhansk is Ukraine. Zaporizhzhia is Ukraine. Kherson is Ukraine. Crimea is Ukraine. Canada is clear. I think all of us in this House can agree on that, and we will continue to fight for that recognition around the world. Russia's sham referendums are a sign of Russia's weakness and proof of Ukraine's successful counteroffensive. They do not reflect the will of Ukrainian people. They are selective, they are illegal and they are a grave violation of international law. We reject Putin's attempts to rob Ukraine of its territory, of its history, of its sovereignty, of its democracy and of its independence. In response, Canada and the international community are ensuring that President Putin and his enablers answer for their actions. We are working around the clock to deliver comprehensive military, financial, humanitarian, stabilization and developmental assistance in support of Ukraine and its people. This year alone, Canada has committed over $3.4 billion in support to Ukraine, including $626 million in military assistance committed or delivered, with training to Ukrainian forces; $1.95 billion in new loan resources to support Ukraine's economic resilience; $320 million in humanitarian assistance; $96 million in development assistance; and over $41.5 million in security and stabilization programming to enhance Ukrainian resilience and resistance, including vital support for demining, countering disinformation and initiatives to advance accountability and justice for human rights violations. There is not only money in our support for Ukraine. Canada is also stepping up through its comprehensive immigration response, which offers Ukrainians and their family members extended temporary status; an expedited plan for permanent residency through a family sponsorship program; and support for the International Criminal Court, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine, the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe's Moscow mechanism, and Ukraine's case against Russia at the International Court of Justice in order to hold Russia accountable. Pursuing accountability and justice for victims, as well as supporting investigations into war crimes and crimes against humanity, is part of our ongoing work, and we are announcing a $1-million contribution to the International Criminal Court to support its investigation into the sexual violence and conflict-related crimes against children. These are non-partisan issues. This is the way we as Canadians want to support Ukraine, want to stand up to a bully named Putin and want to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. In addition to direct support to Ukraine and its people, Canada is focused on holding Putin, his regime and those abetting him accountable and placing economic and political pressure on them to stop the war. We have imposed sanctions since just February on over 1,400 individuals and entities in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, and we were the first among our partners on the seizure and forfeiture of the assets of sanctioned individuals and entities. We announced our most recent round of sanctions just last week in response to Russia's sham referendums and the annexation efforts. Never has the community of democracies, NATO allies and others who support our endeavours and efforts in Ukraine been stronger. We are indivisible, strong, united and concerted, and I hope the House continues to stay that way as well. Canada and our partners are making a principled response to Russia's war of choice because we need to uphold the rules-based international system, and Canada is working to maintain and maximize a high level of multilateral unity within the broader international community. We are recognized as leaders in this field. We will continue to do it. We will continue to call like-minded and not so like-minded countries together so we can endeavour to hold Russia accountable as we continue to support Ukraine and its people. Ukraine is a brave and strong country, and it is resilient, but it needs help. It will continue to be free, prosperous and independent with the world guarding its back and keeping it in mind at every step. We will also work with our allies and across the international community to protect the systems and structures that we have all protected and strengthened for decades. These are the cornerstones, not only of democracy but of our security and the way we need to act as a world of like-minded countries. Together with the international community, and working with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, we continue to call on President Putin to end this war, to get out of Ukraine, to stop the violence and to respect humanity, borders and the people of Ukraine. We call on him to withdraw his troops and equipment from Ukraine and to turn to good-faith diplomacy. We recognize that there are limits to diplomacy, and that is why we continue to help the military operations in Ukraine through equipment, support and training. However, we also know that our world is best served by diplomatic solutions, by working the ways of peace and by engaging as Canadians would have us engage in the world. Today we stand, I believe, united in condemning Russia and supporting Ukraine. Today we stand united in refusing to recognize these fake, false and sham-like referenda, and we will continue to stand with the people of Ukraine this day and every day. It is not only because we support Ukraine; these are Canadian values at work in our world, and we will continue to do that.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Oct/3/22 4:14:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I share the aspirations of the parliamentary secretary for unity in support of Ukraine. Of course, in pursuit of that end, the official opposition will continue to challenge the government in areas where it is falling short with respect to providing the necessary supports for Ukraine. It is not just the official opposition that has raised these concerns; other long-time allies of the government have been similarly critical of it in the last few months for not doing enough. For example, Boris Wrzesnewskyj, who served in this House as a Liberal MP and served in caucus with the parliamentary secretary up until 2019, said of the decision to grant a waiver of sanctions that it was “a Canadian betrayal of Ukraine and of Canadian values” when the decision was made to lift sanctions on the Siemens turbines. It is not just the official opposition; there are many other voices saying the government is falling behind and making big mistakes with respect to not being consistently principled when it comes to holding the line on our sanctions regime. Would the parliamentary secretary recognize, now that gas is still not flowing through the Gazprom pipelines because the turbines have not been used, that granting the sanctions waiver was a mistake? The government said it was a revokable permit. Is the government prepared to recognize this mistake now and revoke the permit?

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Hon. Robert Oliphant

Oct/3/22 4:15:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is the second speech from the member, and I am very pleased to be able to respond to it. Canada made the very difficult decision to make a waiver on returning the first of a few turbines that needed to go to keep energy flowing to Europe. We are an internationalist, multilateral government, and we listen to our allies. We make difficult decisions to ensure that we are at one, in unity with our allies, and we will continue to do that. I have huge respect for Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, who was a member of this place. However, at the same time, I would say that Canada made an important, difficult decision, and we will continue to review it every day as we look at the best ways to support Ukraine and also keep the unity of our alliance together.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Oct/3/22 4:16:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, with diplomatic tensions running high and a war being fought between two countries, one of which is a major power, it is especially important to be careful and to strike the right balance. No one here, or anywhere else in the world, I am sure, wants to be plunged into a third world war. I would like my colleague to comment on what is being done here and around the world to maintain a certain balance and prevent violence from erupting globally.

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Hon. Robert Oliphant

Oct/3/22 4:17:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. I think it is very important to have a discussion about the meaning and importance of unity among allies and organizations like NATO. I will continue to talk about the fact that NATO and our allies who are engaged in this conflict are doing it with a great sensitivity, very much aware that missteps could make the conflict broader and even more difficult than it is. We are finding ways to support Ukraine by providing equipment, by providing training and by ensuring that Ukraine has the tools it needs to engage in this war without it becoming a third world war. That is very much a sensitivity that we have on this side, and it is a fine line to make sure that we support, hold up, empower and even embolden Ukraine in its own defence, while also limiting the scale of this horrendous war.

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The Deputy Speaker

Oct/3/22 4:18:44 p.m.
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Here is where I give my nightly reminder to all members of this wonderful House to try to shorten up the questions and answers so that everybody gets to participate in this debate. Continuing debate, the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 4:19:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is really important to recognize that what is taking place in Ukraine today goes far beyond the borders of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine are putting up a heroic effort in defending some of the fundamental principles of freedom, democracy and so many other things we in western society and many countries around the world truly value, and which are so important to the future not only of Ukraine but in fact the world. In Canada, we have approximately 1.4 million people of Ukrainian heritage. People of Ukrainian heritage have played a critical role in who we are as a nation today, but the impact in Canada goes far beyond just the people of Ukrainian heritage. The people of Canada have recognized in a very real and tangible way that what is taking place in Europe is so critically important to all of us, each and every one of us. My political career in the House has been somewhat limited, but I can recall 2014, when from my perspective we saw Ukraine take a significant pivot. It wanted to talk about trade and was looking to the European Union and countries like Canada and the U.S. to enhance those trade relations. The violent reaction that I saw being perpetrated from Russia ultimately led to a change in Ukraine's presidency back in 2015, when former president Poroshenko was elected. He came to Canada and spoke in the House of Commons, in Centre Block, in person, and talked about the special relationship between Canada and Ukraine. At that time, I was on the opposition benches. Even back then, we talked about the important relationship between Canada and Ukraine. The parliamentary secretary just made reference to Canada's acknowledging Ukraine as an independent nation. We were the first country in the world to do so. We understand very much the heritage, and we have an appreciation for Ukraine's sovereignty and independence. I can recall vividly being at the Maidan, or Independence Square, in Kyiv days afterward, where I witnessed a beautiful wedding ceremony and the sense of young people going into downtown Kyiv, recognizing how important it was that a change had taken place. When Crimea was annexed by Russia, the red flags shot up. We argued then, as we are arguing for eastern Ukraine today, that those are territories that we as a nation identify as part of Ukraine. That has not changed. As referenced, the referendums are a sham. I do not think anyone who has a true appreciation of what has taken place recognizes those referendums as being valid. There is a sense of solidarity for Ukraine that goes far beyond the borders of Ukraine and I believe is well recognized here in Canada. It is a friendship that predates the Maidan. It goes back into the nineties and even before. I think of constituents like the late Bill Balan, a dear friend of mine who passed. There are so many that, even though they might live here in Canada, their hearts can often be found in Ukraine. It is a part of the reason why we have organizations such as the Ukrainian Canadian Congress and many others that do such a wonderful job ensuring that elected parliamentarians here in Ottawa have a complete and comprehensive understanding of the situation that is taking place in Ukraine. That is why, over the years, we have seen substantial support for Ukraine's infrastructure. One of the things that comes to my mind, right offhand, is the Canadian Forces and how we have been able to utilize members of our Canadian Forces in Ukraine. Ukraine has some incredible members of its Ukrainian military who have been trained, at least in part, by members of the Canadian Forces. I think it was estimated to be just over 30,000 or something of that nature. We are seeing some of the training that we were able to provide years ago actually being used today. There are things that Canada has been doing. We could talk about the trade agreement, which was started under Stephen Harper and finalized under the current Prime Minister. I remember the minister responsible for trade and the Prime Minister flying over to sign off. I remember it was something that former president Poroshenko, when he spoke to us in the House of Commons, live, talked about wanting to see. Those are some of the things that we did prior. We had a real hero, President Zelenskyy, appear on our virtual screens and, therefore, on the floor of the House of Commons. Again, he talked about the important role the allied countries and Canada can play to continue to support Ukraine. When, just over 200 days ago, Russia illegally invaded Ukraine, there was an immediate response. There were many people that thought Ukraine was just going to roll over and Russia would be able to finish that invasion. However, the heroes of Ukraine, they stood up. I remember the one quote that was attributed to President Zelenskyy. It was in regard to being offered a way to leave, that maybe he should be leaving the country. He said something to the nature of, “I need ammunition, not a ride.” It is those sorts of words that have inspired so many Ukrainian heroes. It is truly amazing how the people of Ukraine have responded. It is important, as the Parliament here in Canada, that we tell our brothers and sisters in Ukraine that we have been there for them, and we will continue to be there for them in very real and tangible ways. We can talk about the sanctions, the military lethal weapon aid and support that we have provided or the humanitarian aid, whether it is coming from the government or from the people of Canada. I am always amazed at how many Ukrainian flags we will see flying, whether it is in my constituency of Winnipeg North or when I am driving into the Interlake. Throughout our country, we will see Ukrainian flags. I believe, as I said before, it is because there is a solidarity here in Canada to support Ukraine that is worldwide. We will continue to be there and recognize the referendums as a sham.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, CPC)

Oct/3/22 4:29:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of commonalities in the positions taken by the official opposition and the government. We have been working in tandem on different opportunities on the question of the referendums. What I have been saying to constituents, obviously, because of my background, as someone born in communist Poland, is that these have all the legitimacy of a thief who breaks into a bank and applies for a line of credit during the theft they are committing, which is basically what the terrorist state of Russia is doing. I wonder if the member could perhaps comment on what other steps the government should be immediately taking to provide arms, logistical support and the means for Ukrainians to reach the Russian Federation's true border, the international border that we recognize and is internationally recognized, to ensure this war comes to an early end with a minimal number of casualties.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Oct/3/22 4:30:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the most important thing we can do is to continue to be steadfast in supporting Ukraine in whatever way we can, working with our allied countries. It is the allied forces, the U.S.A. in particular, that have been there to support Ukraine in a very tangible way so that the heroes in Ukraine are in a better position to get back their land, the territories that will always be part of Ukraine. Whatever we can do to support that, we should. That is what the government, working with opposition parties, is doing.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

Oct/3/22 4:31:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the parliamentary secretary for his speech. I would like him to talk about next steps with regard to Ukraine's application to join NATO, which has been an ongoing matter for several years. What can we now do to try to improve and resolve this situation in the near future? How can we ensure that Russia will not succeed in getting what it wants with its aggression?

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Oct/3/22 4:31:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, NATO allied forces are in fact working on that particular point as they have been looking at other memberships to NATO. I see that continuing. One of the biggest concerns I have right now is that winter is quickly approaching and the impact that will have in Europe. I would like more dialogue to take place on that, on what it is we can do to help. As I say, there has been so much devastation in Ukraine it is virtually impossible to describe the horrors in words. We can talk about human rights or cities being completely demolished. There is so much need and winter is around the corner. Like many, if not all, Canadians, I am very concerned about that.

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