44th Parl. 1st Sess.
October 3, 2022 11:00AM
- Oct/3/22 4:00:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, with respect, I disagree with the government's decision on the gas turbines. To be frank, both the Republic of Germany and Canada were duped by the Russians in being convinced to waive the sanctions to send the gas turbines back to Gazprom. The fact is that since the decision has been taken, Russia has proven the point. NATO has concluded that Russia was behind the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline through the Baltic Sea into Germany. Russia clearly has no interest in resurrecting this pipeline if it was willing to essentially blow up parts of it, which are leaking dangerous amounts of methane and gas into the atmosphere and the Baltic Sea.
It was the wrong decision taken by both the German and Canadian governments. I think in hindsight, as it was at the time, that is clear, since Russia itself, as NATO has concluded, has sabotaged the very pipeline that these turbines were purportedly going to keep open.
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- Oct/3/22 4:02:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from the Bloc Québécois for her question. In my opinion, diplomacy does not work with Russia. The only approach that works with Vladimir Putin is military action. That is clear. We used a lot of diplomacy before the war in Ukraine, but that did not work. Now, we are in a situation where military intervention is the only way to convince the Russians to end the war in Ukraine.
At this point, unfortunately, kinetic action as opposed to diplomacy is the only way forward to contain Vladimir Putin and his nuclear threats. Because he has been unclear in his nuclear threats, it is not possible for us to respond in any way, because he has not laid down the red lines for exactly what would constitute the trigger for using a tactical nuclear weapon.
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- Oct/3/22 4:04:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague and friend from Windsor West, in southwestern Ontario, for his question. We have worked on a number of things in this House together over the years.
My colleague is exactly right. It is not just the contributions we have had in building civil society and democratic capacity in Ukraine. It is also contributions we have made in building the capacity of the Ukrainian military over the last decade, which obviously have come to bear fruit in its campaign to oust Russia from Ukraine.
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- Oct/3/22 4:19:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is really important to recognize that what is taking place in Ukraine today goes far beyond the borders of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine are putting up a heroic effort in defending some of the fundamental principles of freedom, democracy and so many other things we in western society and many countries around the world truly value, and which are so important to the future not only of Ukraine but in fact the world.
In Canada, we have approximately 1.4 million people of Ukrainian heritage. People of Ukrainian heritage have played a critical role in who we are as a nation today, but the impact in Canada goes far beyond just the people of Ukrainian heritage. The people of Canada have recognized in a very real and tangible way that what is taking place in Europe is so critically important to all of us, each and every one of us.
My political career in the House has been somewhat limited, but I can recall 2014, when from my perspective we saw Ukraine take a significant pivot. It wanted to talk about trade and was looking to the European Union and countries like Canada and the U.S. to enhance those trade relations. The violent reaction that I saw being perpetrated from Russia ultimately led to a change in Ukraine's presidency back in 2015, when former president Poroshenko was elected. He came to Canada and spoke in the House of Commons, in Centre Block, in person, and talked about the special relationship between Canada and Ukraine.
At that time, I was on the opposition benches. Even back then, we talked about the important relationship between Canada and Ukraine. The parliamentary secretary just made reference to Canada's acknowledging Ukraine as an independent nation. We were the first country in the world to do so. We understand very much the heritage, and we have an appreciation for Ukraine's sovereignty and independence.
I can recall vividly being at the Maidan, or Independence Square, in Kyiv days afterward, where I witnessed a beautiful wedding ceremony and the sense of young people going into downtown Kyiv, recognizing how important it was that a change had taken place.
When Crimea was annexed by Russia, the red flags shot up. We argued then, as we are arguing for eastern Ukraine today, that those are territories that we as a nation identify as part of Ukraine. That has not changed. As referenced, the referendums are a sham. I do not think anyone who has a true appreciation of what has taken place recognizes those referendums as being valid. There is a sense of solidarity for Ukraine that goes far beyond the borders of Ukraine and I believe is well recognized here in Canada. It is a friendship that predates the Maidan. It goes back into the nineties and even before.
I think of constituents like the late Bill Balan, a dear friend of mine who passed. There are so many that, even though they might live here in Canada, their hearts can often be found in Ukraine. It is a part of the reason why we have organizations such as the Ukrainian Canadian Congress and many others that do such a wonderful job ensuring that elected parliamentarians here in Ottawa have a complete and comprehensive understanding of the situation that is taking place in Ukraine. That is why, over the years, we have seen substantial support for Ukraine's infrastructure.
One of the things that comes to my mind, right offhand, is the Canadian Forces and how we have been able to utilize members of our Canadian Forces in Ukraine.
Ukraine has some incredible members of its Ukrainian military who have been trained, at least in part, by members of the Canadian Forces. I think it was estimated to be just over 30,000 or something of that nature. We are seeing some of the training that we were able to provide years ago actually being used today.
There are things that Canada has been doing. We could talk about the trade agreement, which was started under Stephen Harper and finalized under the current Prime Minister. I remember the minister responsible for trade and the Prime Minister flying over to sign off. I remember it was something that former president Poroshenko, when he spoke to us in the House of Commons, live, talked about wanting to see. Those are some of the things that we did prior.
We had a real hero, President Zelenskyy, appear on our virtual screens and, therefore, on the floor of the House of Commons. Again, he talked about the important role the allied countries and Canada can play to continue to support Ukraine.
When, just over 200 days ago, Russia illegally invaded Ukraine, there was an immediate response. There were many people that thought Ukraine was just going to roll over and Russia would be able to finish that invasion. However, the heroes of Ukraine, they stood up. I remember the one quote that was attributed to President Zelenskyy. It was in regard to being offered a way to leave, that maybe he should be leaving the country. He said something to the nature of, “I need ammunition, not a ride.”
It is those sorts of words that have inspired so many Ukrainian heroes. It is truly amazing how the people of Ukraine have responded. It is important, as the Parliament here in Canada, that we tell our brothers and sisters in Ukraine that we have been there for them, and we will continue to be there for them in very real and tangible ways.
We can talk about the sanctions, the military lethal weapon aid and support that we have provided or the humanitarian aid, whether it is coming from the government or from the people of Canada. I am always amazed at how many Ukrainian flags we will see flying, whether it is in my constituency of Winnipeg North or when I am driving into the Interlake. Throughout our country, we will see Ukrainian flags.
I believe, as I said before, it is because there is a solidarity here in Canada to support Ukraine that is worldwide. We will continue to be there and recognize the referendums as a sham.
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- Oct/3/22 4:32:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is critical with what is going on that we continue to call out Russia's war crimes and crimes against humanity. We need to continue to support refugees and visa-free travel for people from Ukraine. Lives are on the line.
Watching the news and with the growing concern of escalating nuclear threats, the need for global nuclear disarmament is more important than ever. I would ask the member why his government, in the face of a catastrophic nuclear threat, still has not signed on to or ratified the international Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons.
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- Oct/3/22 4:44:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member made reference to a very interesting point when he talked about differentiating between the Government of Russia and the people of Russia. My understanding is that there are literally thousands of Russian residents who are wanting to flee Russia. However, given all the propaganda tools that are out there in the hands of the Russian regime, I am still not convinced that the people of Russia have a full understanding of what is actually taking place.
Can the member provide his thoughts on the importance and impact of social media that might actually be at play?
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- Oct/3/22 5:04:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comments. I completely agree with him. We are facing a truly difficult situation where we cannot continue having these discussions because the Russian leader will not. He will not have anything to do with them. What we are now seeing is that he is showing what may be his last card, the nuclear option.
We know that we do not want to go there. If we say that diplomacy is not working, that discussions are not working, what can the international community do to support Ukraine, which is the only country that can deploy military force at this time so this does not escalate into an international conflict?
I have no answer to that question. What can we do to prevent that from happening? My colleague was right in saying that Russia showed its intentions right from the start, but sadly, no amount of discussion was able to dissuade it. Faced with a nuclear threat, what can we do as a country? I unfortunately do not have an answer to that question.
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- Oct/3/22 5:26:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at the beginning, I think we all thought that in some way we needed to negotiate with Russia. It is very clear that this is not what we need to do right now and that, in fact, the fundamental principle of international law that we need to look at is distinct geographical sovereignty for countries. We have to support Ukraine as Ukrainians do their own work to defend their own borders.
However, there are things we can do. We can help Ukraine with its rebuilding efforts. That is going to be a massive thing that needs to be done. It needs to be done in addition to our other commitments and to international aid, not instead of. We need to be looking at things like demining in Ukraine and how Canada's experts can work on demining.
The member's colleague brought up the idea of UN reform. We need to look at the fact that Russia has a seat on the Security Council and has a veto. How do we fix that? How do we reform the United Nations and other multilateral institutions to ensure that countries have to adhere to the rule of law, to international law and to international human rights law?
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- Oct/3/22 5:59:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague, who was formerly the foreign affairs minister and the transport minister, for his thoughtful intervention.
If he feels the sanctions are working the way they should be, I would like to ask him if there are lessons to be learned about sanctions for other despots and other regimes after going through this. The world has moved to put sanctions on Russia, but there have been other circumstances in the past where they could have been more robust, especially in the financial sector. I am really concerned about a number of different loopholes, about tax havens and about a series of options that enable billionaires and oligarchs, not only in Russia but in general.
I am wondering what his thoughts are on lessons learned and on perhaps putting more muscle against those types of systems, which are working against people across the globe.
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- Oct/3/22 6:14:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the annexation of Crimea and the last four elections, all of which were illegal, are causing other countries, other areas surrounding Russia and other places that also once “belonged” to the U.S.S.R. to fear the worst.
What is being done and what should be done to be more proactive and prevent these areas from also falling to Russian annexation?
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- Oct/3/22 6:15:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with the member that more needs to be done, especially on the diplomatic front. I am always worried about some of those eastern European countries, former members of the Soviet Union, that are not members of NATO. They do not have the luxury of an attack on one being an attack on all. Article 5 does not apply to places such as Moldova and Georgia. I have already seen nefarious actions from Russian players, whether from the state itself or individuals who continue to undermine their own democracies and economies.
We need to continue to stand with those countries and find ways to strengthen them, knowing that right now the west is spread pretty thin in trying to deal with the Russian threat as well as what is going on in the South China Sea. We will have to continue to work collaboratively to find ways to support all member countries. Right now, the best thing we can do is defeat Russia in Ukraine. Then it would not be that big of a threat to all the rest of the nations in the region.
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- Oct/3/22 6:17:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is no evidence yet to determine who did it. There are only a few countries that have the capabilities to fire upon a pipeline that deep in the sea. As the member said, it was in three places.
It would not surprise me if it was a false flag operation done by Russia itself. It has already rejected the turbines from Canada. They were erroneously provided back to Gazprom and have been able to pump more natural gas from Russia into Germany and the rest of Europe. I would not be surprised if Vladimir Putin, who is famous for doing false flag operations, actually orchestrated this one as well.
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- Oct/3/22 6:33:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is my privilege to join in this debate today to condemn the referendums that have been held in the occupied territories of Ukraine.
One of the things I want to get on the record is about natural gas or, as we call it, the “freedom energy” that Canada can provide to the world. We have seen over the years how the Liberal government has stood in the way of the production of Canadian natural resources and the export of natural gas around the world, the export of our freedom energy, as it were. Now we see the impacts of that when it comes to Europe, with its dependence on Russian gas and its somewhat hampered ability to provide aid to Ukraine because the Russians hold them ransom with natural gas.
Also, there is the fact that the sale of natural gas funds the war. The sale of natural gas funds the Russian war machine. As Russian energy is sold around the world, that money comes back to Russia and that is what is allowing the Russians to maintain their war against Ukraine. That is what I wanted to get on the record here today: the fact that Russia is the aggressor in this instance and that Russia needs revenues in order to be able to maintain this war.
I come from a part of the country that is well endowed with natural gas. I remember that before I was elected, in 2013 or 2014, Canada was talking about LNG. There was big support for LNG on both ends of the country. We could have been a first mover in that, and we could have led the world in that technology. We would have been able to provide both Europe and Asia with LNG. Unfortunately, due to government inaction, we have been unable to approve these projects and we have been unable to provide the world with the freedom energy that comes from the promised land, as I like to call it, in northern Alberta.
Here we are today. We heard from the member for Etobicoke Centre about how Ukrainians feed 400 million people in the world, and that food is not getting to the rest of the world at this time. Canada has the opportunity to step up and provide more food to the world, but at the very time when the world is looking for more food, the Liberal government is talking about reducing the use of fertilizer in this country. Do members know what happens when we reduce the use of fertilizer? We lose food production.
The use of fertilizer multiplies our food production by a factor of about three, so if we took away all the fertilizer we use, we would only get a third of the food production in this country. A warning to the world, in terms of the use of fertilizer, is the country of Sri Lanka. It has abolished the use of fertilizer and has basically destroyed its economy and starved its own people, so I would recommend that Canada does not go down that way.
We can feed the world, and we can provide it with the freedom energy it needs.
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