SoVote

Oct/3/22 5:04:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comments. I completely agree with him. We are facing a truly difficult situation where we cannot continue having these discussions because the Russian leader will not. He will not have anything to do with them. What we are now seeing is that he is showing what may be his last card, the nuclear option. We know that we do not want to go there. If we say that diplomacy is not working, that discussions are not working, what can the international community do to support Ukraine, which is the only country that can deploy military force at this time so this does not escalate into an international conflict? I have no answer to that question. What can we do to prevent that from happening? My colleague was right in saying that Russia showed its intentions right from the start, but sadly, no amount of discussion was able to dissuade it. Faced with a nuclear threat, what can we do as a country? I unfortunately do not have an answer to that question.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Oct/3/22 5:06:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure to stand here today and share with my colleagues some of my thoughts on this report that has come from the foreign affairs committee. I am the New Democratic member on the foreign affairs committee and I am, of course, the critic for foreign affairs and international development. I am also the vice-chair of the Canada-Ukraine parliamentary friendship association, and it was very important to me when I was elected that I take on that role within that friendship group. I have to say that many people in the House will hear the name “Heather McPherson” and think that it is not particularly Ukrainian, but I am an Edmontonian and as members know, in Edmonton, we are all a little bit Ukrainian. We have an incredibly active and incredibly important diaspora community. I want to start by saying how proud and thankful I am for the so many members of the Ukrainian community in Edmonton who have opened their arms for Ukrainians and who have worked so hard, tirelessly in fact, to ensure that Ukrainians in Ukraine and those fleeing violence coming to Canada have the support and know that, as Edmontonians, as Albertans and as Canadians, we stand with them. I think we can all be incredibly moved by what we have seen Ukraine endure and what we have seen Ukraine accomplish since that horrible day, February 24, 2022, when Ukraine was invaded by the Russian Federation and by Vladimir Putin. One other thing I want to say before I get into the meat of my comments is just how proud I was last week to finally realize that I had been banned from Russia. The Russian Federation had finally sanctioned me. As someone who stood many times in the House and said how horrified I was by the actions of the Russian Federation, to be able to stand outside the Russian embassy in Ottawa with colleagues, friends and supporters of Ukraine and receive from them the thanks for my work was one of the best moments of my parliamentary career. There is nothing I am thankful to Vladimir Putin for, but perhaps that is one thing that I am thankful for. We are here today to denounce the sham referendums and the sham occupation of Ukrainian territory. I have been to Ukraine a number of times. I was part of two delegations, one in 2012 and one in 2019, observing elections within Ukraine. I have been to the region and I have some experience there. I have seen just how hard Ukrainians have worked to build and improve their democracy, and worked with their communities to make sure that people have the right to vote. It is interesting, because when there are elections in Ukraine, they happen on a Sunday and they are very festive. They are something that I think Canadians could learn from, because people get dressed in their very best clothes and there is a community feeling in going to vote. I remember going to polling booths where Ukrainian community members had so much pride in the fact that they were in charge of the voting station and were managing the voting station that they had decorated it with the Ukrainian flag, flowers and whatnot. I know what a real election looks like in Ukraine, and I can tell members that it does not look like Russian soldiers escorting people to the polling booth. That is not what a real election looks like in Ukraine. That is not what democracy looks like anywhere in this world. When we hear things out of Moscow such that it owns 15% of Ukraine within days, or when we hear things like 87% of Kherson voted yes or 93% voted yes, nobody in the House believes that. Nobody in the world believes that. Of course this is a sham. Of course we must condemn it and call it what it is. This is one of the last-ditch attempts by a very desperate man who is losing a war in Ukraine that he started. It is important that, as parliamentarians, we stand up and condemn what is happening there and that we actually make it very clear that at no point does Canada recognize what Russia is trying to do in annexing these parts of Ukraine. At no point do we accept that Ukraine is anything but the borders that have been identified and are very clear. That is Ukraine. That is not Russia. All parliamentarians should stand with that. That is what we are talking about today, but I want to talk a little bit more as well about some of the other things that we have heard about recently. I want to talk about the horrific stories that are coming out of these territories. One of the things that I find almost comical is the fact that, out of all the territory that Putin claims to now be Russian, the Ukrainian military has been able to take it over again. It has been able to go and take that territory back, although the Russians do not even seem to know which territory they are talking about. Some articles have come out saying that the Russians do not even know which territory they are claiming to annex. I want to talk about the things that were found in those communities. I want to talk about the horrific attacks on the Ukrainian people that happened in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine earlier in this war. I am certainly not going to use a prop today but I want colleagues to know that in my desk I keep a small piece of metal. It is a piece of shrapnel that was given to me by a member of Parliament from Ukraine. It was given to me by a female member of Parliament from Ukraine, who came to Canada and showed me what had flown across her community, the community that her eight-year-old daughter lives in. This piece of metal shrapnel that went across her community and ripped through the bodies of Ukrainian people, I keep in my desk because I need to always be reminded of why we have to continue to stand in solidarity with Ukraine, why we cannot stop supporting Ukraine and why we have to continue to do what we can, whether it is through sanctions, through humanitarian aid or through helping Ukraine continue to win this war. I keep that piece of shrapnel in my desk for that. Over the last several weeks we have heard about what has been done to prisoners of the Russian Federation in Ukraine in the cities and towns that have recently been liberated. We have heard about things like mass graves and torture chambers. The Associated Press reports: The first time the Russian soldiers caught him, they tossed him bound and blindfolded into a trench covered with wooden boards for days on end. Then they beat him, over and over: Legs, arms, a hammer to the knees, all accompanied by furious diatribes against Ukraine. Before they let him go, they took away his passport and Ukrainian military ID—all he had to prove his existence—and made sure he knew exactly how worthless his life was. “No one needs you,” the commander taunted. “We can shoot you any time, bury you a half-meter underground and that’s it.” That brutal encounter was just the start of the torture that this man endured, that so many Ukrainians have endured. There are war crimes that have been perpetrated against children, sexual assaults against children, crimes of humanity and theft of children. The recent report of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine concluded that war crimes had been committed in Ukraine. It reports that: The Russian Federation’s use of explosive weapons with wide area effects in populated areas was a source of immense harm and suffering for civilians. Witnesses provided consistent accounts of ill-treatment and torture carried out during unlawful confinement. The Commission had found that some Russian Federation soldiers committed sexual and gender-based violence crimes, and had further documented cases in which children had been raped, tortured, unlawfully confined, killed and injured in indiscriminate attacks with explosive weapons. The Commission would continue its investigations, making recommendations regarding criminal accountability and other dimensions of accountability. This is horrifying. It is horrifying for all of us to listen to. It is horrifying to have to say. It is with that in mind that we must continue our support for Ukraine. I was so proud I was able to move the motion in this House, with the support of every member of the House of Commons, to declare a genocide was being committed against the people of Ukraine. I was so proud on April 27 to be able to bring that motion. I was proud that, on April 4, we were able to have a motion on what happened with those initial and horrific reports coming out of Bucha with the mass graves and the crimes against humanity that were happening there. Again, there was unanimous support in the House. Even before February 24 when the war began, or I guess we can say “renewed”, I brought forward a motion at the foreign affairs committee to study what was happening in Ukraine because Ukrainians were telling us this was coming. We had people here saying that it was not, that it would be okay and that Putin was just doing exercises in Belarus. We knew better. We knew better at that time, so I brought forward the motion at the foreign affairs committee to examine that. I do feel, when I stand in this place, that we have the support of all parties to support Ukraine, but there is a moment in time where we need to look at how effective we have been and we need to be able to ask what more Canada needs to do. The Speaker will not be surprised that I have some concerns about our humanitarian aid. The Government of Canada has committed a dollar figure to help the people of Ukraine, or it has announced it. The problem is that it has not gone out the door. It has not gone to help Ukrainians. It has not been allocated. It has not been spent. Frankly, it is October, and winter is coming. We need that humanitarian support to get to Ukrainians now. No, scratch that. We needed that support going to Ukrainians months ago. That should have been in place months ago. One of the things I wonder if the Government of Canada has done is whether it has summoned Russian diplomats like the Europeans are doing. What is the state of this diplomacy in Canada right now? Has the minister spoken to the diplomats? Has the minister asked for this meeting? Has this been moved? I have deep concerns about our failing diplomatic core in this country. Increasingly, it appears our foreign policy is dictated by whim and trade, and that we do not have a meaningful role to play in the world anymore. I need to know the minister is moving on that. I want to understand why we still have not ended the waiver for the turbines going back to Russia. I want to understand why we have not stopped the waiver of our sanctions regime. We have now seen sabotage on the Nord Stream 1 and 2. Why are we still, in this House, pretending it is okay to send turbines back to Russia and that it is going to act in good faith and is not weaponizing energy and food? Why is that still happening? This seems like a very low bar to me. I need to understand how our sanctions regime is working. I have asked many times in this House. I have asked questions during question period. I have asked questions during debate and I have asked questions on the Order Paper. In fact, I was so bothered by the response I received from the questions on the Order Paper I brought in a point of privilege to the Speaker to ask why members of this House, members of this Parliament, cannot get the answers we need on the sanctions regime. Realistically, right now we have actually seized $120 million of Russian assets. That is barely the couch on one of those yachts. Where are the rest of the seizures? Where are the rest of the sanctions? Where are we enforcing that? Why can we not get the information about it? We are seeing the same thing right now with Iran. It is vitally important that the horrific murderers who are committing the crimes in Iran against women are sanctioned and that those sanctions are enforced, but we do not know how well the sanctions are being enforced anywhere in the word, in Ukraine or anywhere. We need to have that information. We need to make sure that we are able to ensure our sanctions are accurate. I am going to finish by saying that, right now, Ukrainian forces are liberating their country. They are doing things that I do not think very many people around the world imagined they could. Their heroic actions to take back their country, to defend their country, have been nothing short of stupendous, amazing, incredible. We all must be proud of that. We all must be proud of what they have been achieving. More than that, more than standing with them, more than showing our support, we have to be there for Ukraine. We have to be there until the end. We cannot change the channel. We cannot look away. Part of that is making sure that Russia knows that we will never accept the annexation of Ukraine's territory. Ukraine will win. Ukraine is winning. Canada must stand with Ukraine and with the heroic Ukrainians who are defending their country and defending all of us, defending human rights, international law and democracies around the world.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 5:22:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I just want to pick up on the member's comments in regard to human rights, which is important, as we have seen over the last 200-plus days now. We have heard, and there have been documents, so it has been well-established that there were many human rights violations, whether it involved, torture, rape or any of a fairly long list. It is very important that the Russian authorities are held accountable for those violations. Could we get the member's thoughts on that?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:23:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, clearly, Canada could play a really important role here. We need to involve the ICC. That needs to be part of this. We need to ensure that we are providing support for forensic reports, so that we are helping Ukraine document the crimes that are happening against humanity. Of course we need to stop those crimes from happening, but we also need to ensure that justice is done as we go forward, that the International Criminal Court is involved and that we do have the work on forensics. One of the things that we heard at the subcommittee on international human rights was how important it was that we identify not just the remains of Ukrainians but the remains of Russian soldiers who have been left on the ground and who have been left behind. Those soldiers also have mothers. Canada has an important role to play.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Oct/3/22 5:24:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I just want to bring to attention comments that the member made on January 31, when Conservatives were putting forth the idea that we should be giving weapons to the Ukrainians, something that had already been put in place back in 2014. The Harper government was going to arm the Ukrainians and that was stopped by the Liberal government. On January 31 of this year, this member spoke against that and said that we were bringing up all this war talk. I am just wondering what the member's comments are about that in light of what we know today.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:25:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what we saw in January changed very drastically in February. February 24, when the Russian Federation invaded Ukraine, I think we could all agree, changed what was happening on the ground. I would hope that every member in this place recognizes that we must fight for peace as long as there is even a hope that peace is available. We must fight for peace as long as possible to ensure that there is less bloodshed and less violence against children and against civilians. The Russian Federation made a decision with that invasion and that changed the reality for all us.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Oct/3/22 5:26:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think we all agree on the content of the report and its main recommendation. That said, I would like us to take this thought process even further. Once we say that we reject these new borders, what is the next step? The Russians will not back down. They are not going to say, “Oh, you're right. Sorry”, and go home. What is the next step? Does my colleague have any suggestions?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:26:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at the beginning, I think we all thought that in some way we needed to negotiate with Russia. It is very clear that this is not what we need to do right now and that, in fact, the fundamental principle of international law that we need to look at is distinct geographical sovereignty for countries. We have to support Ukraine as Ukrainians do their own work to defend their own borders. However, there are things we can do. We can help Ukraine with its rebuilding efforts. That is going to be a massive thing that needs to be done. It needs to be done in addition to our other commitments and to international aid, not instead of. We need to be looking at things like demining in Ukraine and how Canada's experts can work on demining. The member's colleague brought up the idea of UN reform. We need to look at the fact that Russia has a seat on the Security Council and has a veto. How do we fix that? How do we reform the United Nations and other multilateral institutions to ensure that countries have to adhere to the rule of law, to international law and to international human rights law?

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Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

Oct/3/22 5:28:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to echo the member's calls around the need to strengthen our sanction regime. I thank her for her incredible work on this. Whether it is turbines or oligarch yachts, the government has not been strong, consistent and transparent. I also want to mention the incredible work of the local Ukrainian Cultural Centre in my region and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress in Victoria. Many Ukrainians have fled their country and landed in our city. Many organizations have been vital to supporting these individuals and families as they settle here, but these organizations are actually calling for more support from the government. The Ukrainians arriving after fleeing Putin's violent war have the same needs as refugees, but they are not given the same supports. I wonder if the member can speak to this.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:29:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague has done so much work for the Ukrainian community in her riding as well, and I am very proud to be in the same caucus as her. Yes, there is a problem. We have a government announcing that an unlimited number of Ukrainians will be welcomed to Canada, and of course they should be; of course that should be the case. However, we need to make sure that we are providing support once they get here. By not saying they are refugees, they are not able to access the same level of support that other refugees would be able to access. This is compounded a bit because, as I am sure members know, many women came as single parents because the men in their families stayed to fight in Ukraine. Many of them are single parents with children who may have been traumatized by what they have seen. I was in Poland just this March meeting with people who had fled the violence in Ukraine. I saw how terrified and scared families were. Obviously they are going to require additional supports, so the government can do more. I applaud members of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress and the work they have done to support refugees across this country, but they also need support from their government. Much more needs to be done at that level.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Oct/3/22 5:30:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise here in the House today. I just wonder how the speNDP-Liberal coalition feels about the returning of the turbines to Gazprom, especially now that gas is not flowing and it appears that the Russian regime is actually blowing up its own pipelines in light of what is happening. How does that make Canada look on the world stage?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:31:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am a bit perplexed, because I did bring that up in my speech. It was actually my motion at the foreign affairs committee to take on a study of that and have emergency meetings during the summer. I am appalled that the government has not cancelled the waiver on the turbines. I wrote a letter immediately. I have met many times with the Ukrainian ambassador, many times with the German ambassador and many times with different stakeholders about this particular issue. From my perspective, I cannot comprehend why at this point, when it is so very clear that the Russian Federation is weaponizing energy, the waiver has not been cancelled and why we have not nullified it. There is no way to justify it. I have been outraged about this for some time. I thought I brought that up in my speech, but maybe the member missed it.

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Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 5:32:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to join this debate. I will be sharing my time with the member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount. In 2014, Russia twice invaded Ukraine, first in Crimea and then in eastern Ukraine. After occupying these Ukrainian lands, Russia held sham referendums to try to legitimize the annexation of those territories. In 2014 and 2015, the world condemned these referendums and refused to recognize the annexation of Crimea, the Donbass and eastern Ukraine. However, in 2014, the world did not do enough. It did not do everything possible to support Ukraine, deter the invasion and deter the annexation. We did not provide Ukraine with military support. We did not impose significant sanctions on Russia and Russia did not face a significant enough cost. Many people have commented in recent months that if the world had stepped up to do more then and we had supported Ukraine and imposed costs on Russia, then Russia would not have invaded Ukraine on February 24 of this year and we would not have seen what we are seeing today. I agree with them. Fast-forward to the last week or two, and Russia has run sham referendums in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine. It has predetermined the results of these referendums, just as it did in Crimea. Not only that, but Russia resorted to coercive tactics, such as sending armed soldiers and police door to door to collect votes from Ukrainian citizens to secure those very predetermined results. The reason they are doing this is very transparent. They are desperately trying to legitimize the occupation and annexations of the territories they have seized from Ukraine. What they are also trying to do is weaken international support for Ukraine and limit Ukraine's surging counteroffensives. We have seen what Ukraine has been capable of on the ground militarily over the past number of weeks, and this is exactly what Vladimir Putin is trying to stop. He is trying to legitimize the occupation or annexation of these territories through sham referendums so he can argue that these territories are now Russian territories and that any attempt by the Ukrainians to retake them is an attack on Russia. These were arguments that worked in 2014 with Crimea. We cannot allow them to work again. What should we do about it? Well, a few days ago, the House unanimously passed a motion I put forward that talked about what we should do about it. I am proud that I received unanimous support from all members of the House, but also grateful to all members of the House for their support and their unity. In the motion we all passed together, we called for a number of things. We condemned, in the strongest possible terms, these sham referendums. We made it clear that we do not and will never recognize the legitimacy of these referendums. We reaffirmed that Ukraine's territory is that which was recognized at the time of the Budapest memorandum in 1994. It includes Crimea, the Donbass and eastern Ukraine, which Russia illegally invaded in 2014. In that motion we passed unanimously, we also urged the Government of Canada to “continue to provide additional support to Ukraine until all of Ukraine's territory is once again under the sovereign control of the government of Ukraine”. We said the government should do that by “imposing more severe economic sanctions against Russia and providing Ukraine with more military, financial and humanitarian aid.” The first thing I want to say here is that support for Ukraine is obviously not a partisan issue. It is something that all members of the House support. I think this motion underlines that. This is one of a number of examples. I think it is also important to make something very clear, and this is not about those in the House, obviously, because we all supported this motion. There are some who might say that these sham referendums change things, that we should somehow reduce our support for Ukraine or heed Putin's warning. To those who say that, I say this: Do not fall into Vladimir Putin's trap. This is exactly what he would want people to do. This is exactly what he did in 2014 and we saw how that turned out. Remember what happened in 2014. We did not support Ukraine enough, and the world did not impose adequate costs on Russia. Vladimir Putin was then emboldened and we see what he has done since February 24. Let us learn the lessons of 2008 in Georgia and 2014 in Ukraine, and not only maintain our support for Ukraine, but increase it. Let us support the Ukrainian people more. Let us impose even greater costs on Russia. That is what the motion said, and that is what I am confident will work, because it is so important that we signal to Vladimir Putin not only that we symbolically, in words, do not recognize these referendums, but that he will face a cost for continuing to refuse to withdraw from Ukraine. Canada has taken many steps to support the Ukrainian people in this fight. Canada has provided over $800 million in military aid and weapons. This includes rockets, howitzers, 20,000 rounds for those howitzers, anti-tank weapons, machine guns, hand grenades and much more. Another thing that is important to remember about Canada's contribution to what is happening on the ground right now in Ukraine is that Canada, through Operation Unifier, which was launched in 2015, trained over 33,000 Ukrainian soldiers. They were trained by Canadian Armed Forces personnel over the course of years. Those soldiers are now on the front lines. They are the ones taking the fight to the Russians. I think it is really important we remember that. When we see Ukrainian soldiers advancing and the counteroffensives working, and when people comment on the sophistication, the communications ability and some of the skills Ukrainian soldiers have, let us remember that Canada and other countries contributed to that through that training and that support over the course of years. We provided a $1.25-billion loan to help the Ukrainian government meet urgent financial needs and an additional $620 million in loans to help Ukraine financially. We have provided close to $300 million in humanitarian aid and much more, so Canada has taken very significant steps. Canada is one of the leaders in supporting Ukraine, and I think it is important that we acknowledge that. That said, we have to do more. We have to continue to do more, just as that motion we all passed spoke to. This is not just about the Ukrainian people; this is about all of us. This is a war that affects everyone in Canada, and frankly it is touching people around the world. It is, of course, an existential crisis for Ukrainians, but it is also a humanitarian disaster, and we have an obligation to act. There are 12 million Ukrainian refugees alone, but hundreds of millions of people around the world are now facing starvation and food shortages, because Russia has cut off food exports from Ukraine. Across the world, at least 400 million people get fed by Ukrainian food every year. That is 400 million people who have not had access until very recently, and even that was a very small amount, so this is causing great harm to hundreds of millions of people around the world. It is a threat to our security and to global security, but it is also one of the key reasons the cost of living is so high. We spend so much time here in this House talking about affordability, the cost of living, the rising cost of food and the rising cost of fuel and energy. Why are food and energy going up in price so much? The primary reason is Russia's invasion of Ukraine. When we think about all of these consequences, Ukrainians are not just fighting for themselves. That is reason enough to support them, because it is the right thing to do, but they are also fighting for us, our security, our quality of life and our democracy, so we need to continue to fight for them, and we have been fighting for them, as I outlined. We can and should be very proud of what Canada has done and the leadership we have shown on the international stage, but to me, we need to continue doing more and more until Ukraine has a decisive victory. When I say “decisive victory”, I mean that Crimea, Donbass and all the territories Russia has invaded, occupied and tried to legitimize the occupation of throughout these sham referendums are once again under the control of the Government of Ukraine, because anything short of all of Ukraine's territory being part of Ukraine once again is a victory for Russia. They will destroy and commit genocide. They will have destroyed so much of Ukraine, caused so much harm, threatened the international rules-based order and imposed so many costs to just go back to the 2014 boundaries, so we must ensure Ukraine has a decisive victory and we must do everything possible to support Ukraine until it wins. We must do this, not only because this would be a victory for Ukraine and not only because it is the right thing to do, but because we are all in this fight, so we have to do this until Ukraine wins and we all win.

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Mr. Colin Carrie (Oshawa, CPC)

Oct/3/22 5:42:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for consistently bringing forward the issues related to what is going on in Ukraine. I want to say in the House that I agree with him that we need to do more, and I was wondering if he could comment on Canada's role in the world right now, because we have this opportunity with our farmers. He is talking about the food shortages. Perhaps we could support our farmers with affordable energy and the nitrogen fertilizer they need to increase their yields. Perhaps we could increase the liquefied natural gas, oil and energy we could provide over there. Would he be supportive of Canada's taking leadership roles in those regards, to really help not only Ukrainians, but our other allies in Europe?

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Oct/3/22 5:43:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we should do everything we can to help our allies obtain the energy sources they need and, in fact, I believe we are doing that. During Chancellor Scholz's visit to Canada a number of weeks ago, what became apparent is that Germany's needs, for example, are immediate. It is not the only country that needs energy, but it certainly is the largest consumer of Russian energy at the moment in Europe. It was clear it needed short-term help to get the energy it lost because of Russia shutting off the gas. We are not going to rely on Russia. Canada is doing that. We are doing that by pumping more gas, which is going into the United States because we do not have export capacity directly to Europe. It is helping the global market obtain more gas, which can then be used. We are also helping Germany with hydrogen and many long-term solutions as well.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/3/22 5:44:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Canada clearly has as a starting point for helping Ukraine beyond even this situation, and it is cybersecurity. I would like to hear from the member what more we could do. I have attended a number of different conferences. Ukraine has to deal with a lot of Russian threats, but those are threats that go beyond just Ukraine. I would like to hear more about what Canada's role could be in cybersecurity, not only for right now, but also for the future. One of the attractive elements of rebuilding Ukraine is a strategic investment in cybersecurity for all of us.

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Oct/3/22 5:44:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think about cybersecurity, and there are many elements that I would love to have a longer discussion with the member about, to be honest. Briefly, what we need to be doing is shoring up as much as possible our own security so we can protect ourselves from those cyber-threats. Some of that is in government, but some of that is in the private sector as well and working with the private sector to make sure it is protected. I also think it is important that we work closely with our allies to do that because one thing that has become clear is that we need to unite in standing in the face of imperialism and threats like this. Cybersecurity is just one of those threats, but standing together with our allies and continuing to buffer our protection both in the private sector and the public sector is the way to go.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Oct/3/22 5:45:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his logical, sensible and sensitive speech. My problem is how Canada handles foreign policy. We have not exactly excelled in that department in recent years, unfortunately. The issue here is the illegal annexation of territory. Everyone, government and opposition alike, is against that. I would like to ask my colleague if he sees a diplomatic solution here. What is done is done. Is there no going back? Can we explore other diplomatic pressure tactics?

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Oct/3/22 5:46:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his important question. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Bloc Québécois members for their support. We disagree on many issues and topics in the House, but on this one, we are of the same mind. I thank them for that. Getting back to the question, I think we need to work through other diplomatic channels to ensure that Ukraine's territories come back under the Ukrainian government's control. There is not just one solution to the problem, but rather a whole range of things. That is what the world is trying to do. Canada, the United States and European countries are doing that. One positive thing that has come out of all this is working with other countries in a unified way. It is important to—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/3/22 5:47:32 p.m.
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I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member. I was trying to give him enough time to wrap up, but we have to move on to resuming debate. The hon. member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount.

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