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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Oct/3/22 5:24:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I just want to bring to attention comments that the member made on January 31, when Conservatives were putting forth the idea that we should be giving weapons to the Ukrainians, something that had already been put in place back in 2014. The Harper government was going to arm the Ukrainians and that was stopped by the Liberal government. On January 31 of this year, this member spoke against that and said that we were bringing up all this war talk. I am just wondering what the member's comments are about that in light of what we know today.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:25:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what we saw in January changed very drastically in February. February 24, when the Russian Federation invaded Ukraine, I think we could all agree, changed what was happening on the ground. I would hope that every member in this place recognizes that we must fight for peace as long as there is even a hope that peace is available. We must fight for peace as long as possible to ensure that there is less bloodshed and less violence against children and against civilians. The Russian Federation made a decision with that invasion and that changed the reality for all us.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Oct/3/22 5:26:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think we all agree on the content of the report and its main recommendation. That said, I would like us to take this thought process even further. Once we say that we reject these new borders, what is the next step? The Russians will not back down. They are not going to say, “Oh, you're right. Sorry”, and go home. What is the next step? Does my colleague have any suggestions?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:26:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at the beginning, I think we all thought that in some way we needed to negotiate with Russia. It is very clear that this is not what we need to do right now and that, in fact, the fundamental principle of international law that we need to look at is distinct geographical sovereignty for countries. We have to support Ukraine as Ukrainians do their own work to defend their own borders. However, there are things we can do. We can help Ukraine with its rebuilding efforts. That is going to be a massive thing that needs to be done. It needs to be done in addition to our other commitments and to international aid, not instead of. We need to be looking at things like demining in Ukraine and how Canada's experts can work on demining. The member's colleague brought up the idea of UN reform. We need to look at the fact that Russia has a seat on the Security Council and has a veto. How do we fix that? How do we reform the United Nations and other multilateral institutions to ensure that countries have to adhere to the rule of law, to international law and to international human rights law?

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Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

Oct/3/22 5:28:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to echo the member's calls around the need to strengthen our sanction regime. I thank her for her incredible work on this. Whether it is turbines or oligarch yachts, the government has not been strong, consistent and transparent. I also want to mention the incredible work of the local Ukrainian Cultural Centre in my region and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress in Victoria. Many Ukrainians have fled their country and landed in our city. Many organizations have been vital to supporting these individuals and families as they settle here, but these organizations are actually calling for more support from the government. The Ukrainians arriving after fleeing Putin's violent war have the same needs as refugees, but they are not given the same supports. I wonder if the member can speak to this.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:29:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague has done so much work for the Ukrainian community in her riding as well, and I am very proud to be in the same caucus as her. Yes, there is a problem. We have a government announcing that an unlimited number of Ukrainians will be welcomed to Canada, and of course they should be; of course that should be the case. However, we need to make sure that we are providing support once they get here. By not saying they are refugees, they are not able to access the same level of support that other refugees would be able to access. This is compounded a bit because, as I am sure members know, many women came as single parents because the men in their families stayed to fight in Ukraine. Many of them are single parents with children who may have been traumatized by what they have seen. I was in Poland just this March meeting with people who had fled the violence in Ukraine. I saw how terrified and scared families were. Obviously they are going to require additional supports, so the government can do more. I applaud members of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress and the work they have done to support refugees across this country, but they also need support from their government. Much more needs to be done at that level.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Oct/3/22 5:30:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise here in the House today. I just wonder how the speNDP-Liberal coalition feels about the returning of the turbines to Gazprom, especially now that gas is not flowing and it appears that the Russian regime is actually blowing up its own pipelines in light of what is happening. How does that make Canada look on the world stage?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Oct/3/22 5:31:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am a bit perplexed, because I did bring that up in my speech. It was actually my motion at the foreign affairs committee to take on a study of that and have emergency meetings during the summer. I am appalled that the government has not cancelled the waiver on the turbines. I wrote a letter immediately. I have met many times with the Ukrainian ambassador, many times with the German ambassador and many times with different stakeholders about this particular issue. From my perspective, I cannot comprehend why at this point, when it is so very clear that the Russian Federation is weaponizing energy, the waiver has not been cancelled and why we have not nullified it. There is no way to justify it. I have been outraged about this for some time. I thought I brought that up in my speech, but maybe the member missed it.

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Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 5:32:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to join this debate. I will be sharing my time with the member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount. In 2014, Russia twice invaded Ukraine, first in Crimea and then in eastern Ukraine. After occupying these Ukrainian lands, Russia held sham referendums to try to legitimize the annexation of those territories. In 2014 and 2015, the world condemned these referendums and refused to recognize the annexation of Crimea, the Donbass and eastern Ukraine. However, in 2014, the world did not do enough. It did not do everything possible to support Ukraine, deter the invasion and deter the annexation. We did not provide Ukraine with military support. We did not impose significant sanctions on Russia and Russia did not face a significant enough cost. Many people have commented in recent months that if the world had stepped up to do more then and we had supported Ukraine and imposed costs on Russia, then Russia would not have invaded Ukraine on February 24 of this year and we would not have seen what we are seeing today. I agree with them. Fast-forward to the last week or two, and Russia has run sham referendums in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine. It has predetermined the results of these referendums, just as it did in Crimea. Not only that, but Russia resorted to coercive tactics, such as sending armed soldiers and police door to door to collect votes from Ukrainian citizens to secure those very predetermined results. The reason they are doing this is very transparent. They are desperately trying to legitimize the occupation and annexations of the territories they have seized from Ukraine. What they are also trying to do is weaken international support for Ukraine and limit Ukraine's surging counteroffensives. We have seen what Ukraine has been capable of on the ground militarily over the past number of weeks, and this is exactly what Vladimir Putin is trying to stop. He is trying to legitimize the occupation or annexation of these territories through sham referendums so he can argue that these territories are now Russian territories and that any attempt by the Ukrainians to retake them is an attack on Russia. These were arguments that worked in 2014 with Crimea. We cannot allow them to work again. What should we do about it? Well, a few days ago, the House unanimously passed a motion I put forward that talked about what we should do about it. I am proud that I received unanimous support from all members of the House, but also grateful to all members of the House for their support and their unity. In the motion we all passed together, we called for a number of things. We condemned, in the strongest possible terms, these sham referendums. We made it clear that we do not and will never recognize the legitimacy of these referendums. We reaffirmed that Ukraine's territory is that which was recognized at the time of the Budapest memorandum in 1994. It includes Crimea, the Donbass and eastern Ukraine, which Russia illegally invaded in 2014. In that motion we passed unanimously, we also urged the Government of Canada to “continue to provide additional support to Ukraine until all of Ukraine's territory is once again under the sovereign control of the government of Ukraine”. We said the government should do that by “imposing more severe economic sanctions against Russia and providing Ukraine with more military, financial and humanitarian aid.” The first thing I want to say here is that support for Ukraine is obviously not a partisan issue. It is something that all members of the House support. I think this motion underlines that. This is one of a number of examples. I think it is also important to make something very clear, and this is not about those in the House, obviously, because we all supported this motion. There are some who might say that these sham referendums change things, that we should somehow reduce our support for Ukraine or heed Putin's warning. To those who say that, I say this: Do not fall into Vladimir Putin's trap. This is exactly what he would want people to do. This is exactly what he did in 2014 and we saw how that turned out. Remember what happened in 2014. We did not support Ukraine enough, and the world did not impose adequate costs on Russia. Vladimir Putin was then emboldened and we see what he has done since February 24. Let us learn the lessons of 2008 in Georgia and 2014 in Ukraine, and not only maintain our support for Ukraine, but increase it. Let us support the Ukrainian people more. Let us impose even greater costs on Russia. That is what the motion said, and that is what I am confident will work, because it is so important that we signal to Vladimir Putin not only that we symbolically, in words, do not recognize these referendums, but that he will face a cost for continuing to refuse to withdraw from Ukraine. Canada has taken many steps to support the Ukrainian people in this fight. Canada has provided over $800 million in military aid and weapons. This includes rockets, howitzers, 20,000 rounds for those howitzers, anti-tank weapons, machine guns, hand grenades and much more. Another thing that is important to remember about Canada's contribution to what is happening on the ground right now in Ukraine is that Canada, through Operation Unifier, which was launched in 2015, trained over 33,000 Ukrainian soldiers. They were trained by Canadian Armed Forces personnel over the course of years. Those soldiers are now on the front lines. They are the ones taking the fight to the Russians. I think it is really important we remember that. When we see Ukrainian soldiers advancing and the counteroffensives working, and when people comment on the sophistication, the communications ability and some of the skills Ukrainian soldiers have, let us remember that Canada and other countries contributed to that through that training and that support over the course of years. We provided a $1.25-billion loan to help the Ukrainian government meet urgent financial needs and an additional $620 million in loans to help Ukraine financially. We have provided close to $300 million in humanitarian aid and much more, so Canada has taken very significant steps. Canada is one of the leaders in supporting Ukraine, and I think it is important that we acknowledge that. That said, we have to do more. We have to continue to do more, just as that motion we all passed spoke to. This is not just about the Ukrainian people; this is about all of us. This is a war that affects everyone in Canada, and frankly it is touching people around the world. It is, of course, an existential crisis for Ukrainians, but it is also a humanitarian disaster, and we have an obligation to act. There are 12 million Ukrainian refugees alone, but hundreds of millions of people around the world are now facing starvation and food shortages, because Russia has cut off food exports from Ukraine. Across the world, at least 400 million people get fed by Ukrainian food every year. That is 400 million people who have not had access until very recently, and even that was a very small amount, so this is causing great harm to hundreds of millions of people around the world. It is a threat to our security and to global security, but it is also one of the key reasons the cost of living is so high. We spend so much time here in this House talking about affordability, the cost of living, the rising cost of food and the rising cost of fuel and energy. Why are food and energy going up in price so much? The primary reason is Russia's invasion of Ukraine. When we think about all of these consequences, Ukrainians are not just fighting for themselves. That is reason enough to support them, because it is the right thing to do, but they are also fighting for us, our security, our quality of life and our democracy, so we need to continue to fight for them, and we have been fighting for them, as I outlined. We can and should be very proud of what Canada has done and the leadership we have shown on the international stage, but to me, we need to continue doing more and more until Ukraine has a decisive victory. When I say “decisive victory”, I mean that Crimea, Donbass and all the territories Russia has invaded, occupied and tried to legitimize the occupation of throughout these sham referendums are once again under the control of the Government of Ukraine, because anything short of all of Ukraine's territory being part of Ukraine once again is a victory for Russia. They will destroy and commit genocide. They will have destroyed so much of Ukraine, caused so much harm, threatened the international rules-based order and imposed so many costs to just go back to the 2014 boundaries, so we must ensure Ukraine has a decisive victory and we must do everything possible to support Ukraine until it wins. We must do this, not only because this would be a victory for Ukraine and not only because it is the right thing to do, but because we are all in this fight, so we have to do this until Ukraine wins and we all win.

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Mr. Colin Carrie (Oshawa, CPC)

Oct/3/22 5:42:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for consistently bringing forward the issues related to what is going on in Ukraine. I want to say in the House that I agree with him that we need to do more, and I was wondering if he could comment on Canada's role in the world right now, because we have this opportunity with our farmers. He is talking about the food shortages. Perhaps we could support our farmers with affordable energy and the nitrogen fertilizer they need to increase their yields. Perhaps we could increase the liquefied natural gas, oil and energy we could provide over there. Would he be supportive of Canada's taking leadership roles in those regards, to really help not only Ukrainians, but our other allies in Europe?

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Oct/3/22 5:43:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we should do everything we can to help our allies obtain the energy sources they need and, in fact, I believe we are doing that. During Chancellor Scholz's visit to Canada a number of weeks ago, what became apparent is that Germany's needs, for example, are immediate. It is not the only country that needs energy, but it certainly is the largest consumer of Russian energy at the moment in Europe. It was clear it needed short-term help to get the energy it lost because of Russia shutting off the gas. We are not going to rely on Russia. Canada is doing that. We are doing that by pumping more gas, which is going into the United States because we do not have export capacity directly to Europe. It is helping the global market obtain more gas, which can then be used. We are also helping Germany with hydrogen and many long-term solutions as well.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/3/22 5:44:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Canada clearly has as a starting point for helping Ukraine beyond even this situation, and it is cybersecurity. I would like to hear from the member what more we could do. I have attended a number of different conferences. Ukraine has to deal with a lot of Russian threats, but those are threats that go beyond just Ukraine. I would like to hear more about what Canada's role could be in cybersecurity, not only for right now, but also for the future. One of the attractive elements of rebuilding Ukraine is a strategic investment in cybersecurity for all of us.

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Oct/3/22 5:44:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think about cybersecurity, and there are many elements that I would love to have a longer discussion with the member about, to be honest. Briefly, what we need to be doing is shoring up as much as possible our own security so we can protect ourselves from those cyber-threats. Some of that is in government, but some of that is in the private sector as well and working with the private sector to make sure it is protected. I also think it is important that we work closely with our allies to do that because one thing that has become clear is that we need to unite in standing in the face of imperialism and threats like this. Cybersecurity is just one of those threats, but standing together with our allies and continuing to buffer our protection both in the private sector and the public sector is the way to go.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Oct/3/22 5:45:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his logical, sensible and sensitive speech. My problem is how Canada handles foreign policy. We have not exactly excelled in that department in recent years, unfortunately. The issue here is the illegal annexation of territory. Everyone, government and opposition alike, is against that. I would like to ask my colleague if he sees a diplomatic solution here. What is done is done. Is there no going back? Can we explore other diplomatic pressure tactics?

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Mr. Yvan Baker

Oct/3/22 5:46:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his important question. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the Bloc Québécois members for their support. We disagree on many issues and topics in the House, but on this one, we are of the same mind. I thank them for that. Getting back to the question, I think we need to work through other diplomatic channels to ensure that Ukraine's territories come back under the Ukrainian government's control. There is not just one solution to the problem, but rather a whole range of things. That is what the world is trying to do. Canada, the United States and European countries are doing that. One positive thing that has come out of all this is working with other countries in a unified way. It is important to—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/3/22 5:47:32 p.m.
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I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member. I was trying to give him enough time to wrap up, but we have to move on to resuming debate. The hon. member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount.

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Hon. Marc Garneau (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 5:47:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is an honour to follow my colleague from Etobicoke Centre, who is deeply invested in this incredibly important issue and has spoken very eloquently on this in the past. Let me start by saying that Canada condemns, in the strongest terms, President Putin's illegal, unprovoked and unjustifiable war against Ukraine, its people and its democratically elected government. With each day that passes, we witness the further devastation caused by his cruel disregard for human life and rejection of international law. Let me remind everyone that President Putin's war is a clear contravention of article 2, section 4 of the UN Charter. It is also an attack on democracy, freedom and human rights. Any pretense to the contrary was completely discarded by the sham referenda and illegal attempt at annexation that Moscow just organized. Putin is bent on military conquest, pure and simple, a delusional desire for imperial expansion, regardless of the wishes of the Ukrainian people or the human costs. Canada rejects these fictional referenda results and rejects Russia's attempt to annex Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, just as we continue to reject Russia's attempt to annex Crimea. The unfolding humanitarian crisis has brought growing numbers of civilian casualties, damage to civilian infrastructure and evidence of war crimes and other atrocities. With thousands of casualties and millions displaced, this tragedy will only worsen so long as Putin persists in pursuing a path of violence and aggression. Ever since before President Putin's invasion, Canada and the international community have been united. We offered Putin's regime every opportunity to engage in good-faith dialogue over our mutual security concerns. At the same time, we made clear that Canada and our partners would impose consequences and costs in response to any further aggression, and this is what we have done. Let me be clear. Canada's response has been swift and firm. There must be accountability, and Canada is doing its part. In coordination with our like-minded partners, Canada has imposed a broad range of sanctions and other economic measures that are increasing the pressure on the Putin regime. Our sanction regimes can support numerous objectives, such as facilitating a path to peace or putting an end to impunity for foreign officials and states responsible for atrocities, human rights violations or acts of significant corruption. We are bringing their full weight to bear in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Canada's priority is to hold President Putin and his accomplices, including officials from Belarus, accountable for their actions. We are accomplishing this in close coordination with trusted partners, including the U.S., the U.K., the EU, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. Collective action has been key to putting effective and impactful economic measures in place. Since January 2022, Canada has announced severe and hard-hitting sanctions against over 1,400 individuals and entities in Belarus and Russia under the Special Economic Measures Act. In total, since 2014, we have sanctioned more than 1,800 individuals and entities. We have implemented numerous restrictions in the trade, finance, defence, transport and energy sectors. We have also banned the provision of vital services to key sectors of the Russian economy. In response to President Putin's unilateral recognition of independence of the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics, two integral regions that belong to Ukraine, the Prime Minister announced our first round of sanctions against all members of the Russian State Duma who voted in support of this action. We also imposed prohibitions on certain transactions and activities in these regions. Following the September 2022 annexation votes, we have extended these measures to the remainder of the Russian-occupied regions and imposed further sanctions, including against the so-called leaders of the puppet regimes Russia has put in place. Immediately following President Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Canada increased the pressure by sanctioning key members of Putin's inner circle and close associates who also benefited from his regime. Canada also stopped the issuance of new export permit applications and cancelled valid permits for controlled military, strategic and dual-use items to Russia. As Russia continued its military attack against Ukraine, Canada expanded our sanctions, including sanctioning President Putin himself, his family members and his business, military and political allies. This includes the defence minister, foreign minister and all members of the Russian Security Council. It also includes Russian oligarchs, financial elites and their family members as well as major Russian energy companies such as Gazprom and Rosneft. As a result of Belarus's clear complicity in Russia's unacceptable actions, Canada has expanded our sanctions against the Lukashenko regime. To date, Canada has listed 159 individuals and 39 entities under the Belarus regulations. To limited President Putin's ability to fund his war and Russia's access to the global financial system, we sanctioned core Russian banks and financial institutions, and Canada announced a dealings ban on the Russian central bank, the Russian National Wealth Fund and the Russian Ministry of Finance. Canada also sanctioned the major Russian banks and worked with our like-minded partners to remove them from the SWIFT payment system. Together with the U.S., U.K., EU and others, we are further isolating Russia economically. This will significantly restrict its ability to send money in and out of the country and effectively pause Russia's major imports and exports. We have also worked together to restrict the export of advanced goods and technology to Russia, which will degrade its long-term capabilities. We continue to expand this list. Canada has implemented a ban on various Russian petroleum products, including crude oil. We have also prohibited all Russian-owned or registered vessels from entering Canadian waters and docking in our ports. In coordination with several European countries, Canada closed its airspace to Russian and Belarusian aircraft operators. Last but not least, we removed Russia and Belarus from the most-favoured-nation tariff treatment, effectively imposing a 35% duty on virtually all imports from these two countries. Canada is united with our partners and allies and we will continue to work in coordination to sanction targets that have the greatest impact on the Russian government. We consult with Ukraine, the G7 and other partners to jointly identify further targets. We are committed to building on existing economic measures for as long as President Putin persists with his unjustifiable war and until a peaceful solution is reached. We will continue to use every opportunity to press Russia to leave Ukrainian soil. Our actions will undermine the Russian regime's means to finance this senseless war, weaken its military capacity to fight it and further isolate it from international communities. Canada will continue to support Ukraine as it defends itself against President Putin's aggression. Sanctions are only one of the tools we are using, but they are an important one and we will continue to use them to maximum effect. The brave people of Ukraine have the right to live in peace and the right to conserve their history, identity, freedoms and democracy.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Oct/3/22 5:57:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. We can see the expertise he gained while serving as foreign affairs minister. I would like his thoughts on what the Canadian government has done, or not done, with respect to welcoming refugees. For example, one of the measures on the table is the idea of considering these people not as refugees, but as something along the lines of foreign workers. A medical exam is required, but some of these people currently do not have an income. Of course they get help from the government, but they arrive here and have to get a medical exam. These exams are not available in regions like Abitibi—Témiscamingue, so they have to drive six to eight hours away. Is that fair? Could the government have thought about that and about how to welcome people from other countries properly, especially in a tense climate such as a war?

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Hon. Marc Garneau

Oct/3/22 5:58:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question. I know that Canada is in the process of accepting a large number of refugees from Ukraine and rightly so. I also know that there is a process that must be followed and that sometimes there are challenges associated with that process. We have a limited number of resources to do the work that is needed to welcome refugees. We can do better, and we are trying, but problems arise sometimes, as my colleague just mentioned.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/3/22 5:59:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague, who was formerly the foreign affairs minister and the transport minister, for his thoughtful intervention. If he feels the sanctions are working the way they should be, I would like to ask him if there are lessons to be learned about sanctions for other despots and other regimes after going through this. The world has moved to put sanctions on Russia, but there have been other circumstances in the past where they could have been more robust, especially in the financial sector. I am really concerned about a number of different loopholes, about tax havens and about a series of options that enable billionaires and oligarchs, not only in Russia but in general. I am wondering what his thoughts are on lessons learned and on perhaps putting more muscle against those types of systems, which are working against people across the globe.

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