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Mr. James Bezan (Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, CPC)

Oct/3/22 6:02:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for South Surrey—White Rock, the whip for the official opposition. I am honoured to be able to participate in the debate today and denounce the very crass move by the Russian Federation and President Vladimir Putin to annex both Donetsk and Luhansk, which have been at war with Russia for the last several years, and also now moving to annex Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. I want to say at the onset that Canada, Canadians and all of us here as parliamentarians will never accept Russia's claim to one square inch of Ukrainian territory, and that does not just mean Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. It also includes Crimea. Crimea will always be Ukraine, and as Ukrainian forces are currently demonstrating in the war against the Russian Federation, in this illegal, tyrannical invasion by Putin and his proxies, they will continue to stand against the Russians and continue to make gains in winning this war. We know that the Ukrainian forces have been able to do this because of the tenacity, the patriotism and the valour of the people of Ukraine who are serving in the armed forces, in their militias, and are fighting to protect their country as well as their citizens. I know that each and every one of us here are so impressed with what they have been able to accomplish. Ukraine will never accept the sham referendums, which were done at gunpoint. This goes beyond coercion. This is about military intervention going door to door forcing, at gunpoint, the people of the oblasts of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia to vote for the annexation. This is something that can never stand the test of time and must be denounced by every democratic nation around the world. I am glad that we are here adding our voices to this debate to make sure that the international community knows clearly where Canada stands, more importantly, that the people of Ukraine understand that we are standing with them, and that the Russian Federation and those who are sitting in the embassy right now in Ottawa watching this debate know that we will never accept any of this tyrannical, dictatorial way that Russia has invaded Ukraine and tried to steal Ukrainian territory. Here we are in 2022 and we are playing out old war games. A lot of people like to compare this to World War II or beyond, but it is unbelievable that it is happening in our lifetime. The Russian forces have been put on their back heel. They have lost, it is estimated, over 100,000 soldiers already. They have lost materiel, tanks, artillery and supply chains because of the tenacity and the skill of the Ukrainian armed services. A lot of what we did when we were in government under Stephen Harper and what has been carried on with the current government was, over the last eight years, started with Operation Unifier. In training Ukrainian soldiers up to NATO standards, along with our partners in the United States, the United Kingdom, Poland, Australia and others, we have made these professional soldiers into a formidable force going up against what was thought to be one of the great superpowers in the world. They have proven the world wrong in what Putin and his war machine was going to do to Ukraine. There is no question that we have witnessed war crimes. There is no question that there is a genocide being perpetrated upon the people of Ukraine, and that is why we have to continue to stand with Ukraine. We can never let down our guard on how the Russian Federation is behaving in the global sphere, especially within their spheres of influence in former Soviet states. That is why our role in NATO, our role in supporting Ukraine, can never weaken. The Ukrainian forces have also been able to get a lot of materiel from Canada and other nations. It is because they now have a lot of modern equipment, as well as the planes and tanks they had in service and the equipment they already had in place, that they have been able to take the fight to Russia. However, every time we hear President Zelenskyy, he asks us to send more, and we can send more. I know we have already sent over half a billion dollars' worth of materiel, including of lethal weapons and non-lethal weapons and of RADARSAT images that we have, which we used to provide under Stephen Harper and the Conservative government and which the Liberals cancelled but then reinstated after the war broke out on February 24. As a lot of nations are starting to see their own supplies dwindle, Canada has to step up and do more. As we hear from President Zelenskyy and from the minister of defence in Ukraine, they are asking the west to send more supplies, including more artillery shells as they are running out and more bullets as they are running out. They need more sniper rifles. Guess what we build in Canada, right in Winnipeg? We build sniper rifles at PGW Defence. They are already starting to build more sniper rifles for Ukraine. Some of those are sitting there, unable to move, because the government will not buy them and send them. Why is the government not buying them? They are there. It is a small chunk of change when looking at the big scheme of things. The Ukrainian forces are standing on the front line, stopping these Russian marauders, these barbarians, from coming further into Europe and destabilizing the whole world rule of law that we have come to accept as the norm. We need to send them more. They are asking for more armoured personnel carriers. Guess what we have in Canada? I just asked a question on the Order Paper about this: How many LAVs do we have available that we might be able to have in service that we can send to Ukraine? We are about to retire our entire fleet of armoured vehicles. The new Super Bisons that are to replace them are already built and sitting on a parking lot in London, Ontario, at GDLS. They just need to be certified by National Defence. I know that the 39 LAVs that were sent or are in the process of being sent to Ukraine are actually coming out of that inventory, and I thank the government for sending them. Let us make sure they are equipped the same way that we equip our LAVs here in Canada for fighting in places like Afghanistan, as we did in the past. Let us make sure they have the 25-millimetre machine guns on them and the heavy armoured plating to withstand IEDs as well as artillery shelling. Let us keep and protect as many Ukrainian soldiers as possible, as they are in this fight against these barbarians out of Russia. The government is saying it cannot do more. I asked a question on the Order Paper, which the parliamentary secretary responded to in the last couple of weeks. It was Question No. 705. They said that currently, in Canada, the older LAVs that we used in Afghanistan are still in service. There are 149 LAV II Coyotes and 140 M113s, which are the tracked LAVs and also the armoured personnel carriers that both the United States and Australia have now donated to Ukraine, so the Ukrainians already know how to operate these tracked LAVs. We can move these M113s over at any point in time. They can jump in and go. There are also 196 LAV II Bisons. The Coyotes, the Bisons and the M113s are all sitting here. It is a great inventory and all about to be replaced with brand new Super Bisons, the LAV 6s, coming out of GDLS in London, Ontario. Why are we not taking these now and getting them over to Ukraine as they have Russia on the back heel, retreating away from territory? Why are we not making sure they can win this war? The only way this ends well is if Ukraine wins this war. We have to push Russia out of every inch of the country, and we know that we need to also add to that. I have been calling on the government since this war broke out in February to send more of our medical hospitals. We have Role 3 hospitals in the Canadian Armed Forces. For the COVID-19 pandemic, the government purchased another dozen mobile hospitals, which are still sitting in containers. We should be shipping them over there to make sure we have triage capability for the soldiers who are getting injured on the front lines. The most critical time is to get them into the hands of a doctor and a medic in a good facility, who can save lives after soldiers have been traumatized through very bad battle wounds. Let us continue to support Ukraine. Let us make sure Ukrainians get the materiel they have asked for and the defensive weapons they need, and that we continue to stand together to make sure Ukraine is victorious.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 6:12:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is important to recognize that Canada is very much working with the allied countries. It is providing lethal weapons and the LAVs the member was talking about, and it is not being done in absolute isolation. We have to take into consideration what is happening with our allies and their contributions to Ukraine along with Canada's own needs. There are individuals who may be at a higher pay grade than the member opposite and myself who have to be held accountable for what Canada can actually contribute day in and day out, going forward. When doing a comparison with the allied forces, how important it is that Canada work with the allied forces to ensure that we continue to support Ukraine where it needs that support to the best of Canada's ability?

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Mr. James Bezan

Oct/3/22 6:13:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for Winnipeg North and I know all too well that there are definitely things that we can do in Canada and things that we cannot. I am speaking to the things that we can do to supplement what our allies have already done for Ukraine. They are under pressure as well and depleting their own stocks, especially in the United States and the U.K. Nobody has done more for Ukraine than the United States, the United Kingdom and Poland have. We can continue to say that we are working in a coalition in support of Ukraine, but let us not forget that we are one of Ukraine's biggest friends. In Winnipeg, as we said, we have the sniper rifles we should be building and then sending to Ukraine, paid for by the Government of Canada. We also have Peerless Garments in Winnipeg. What does it build? It builds uniforms and winter kit. Winter is coming, and Ukraine is asking for more winter gear. We should be sending that as well.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Oct/3/22 6:14:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the annexation of Crimea and the last four elections, all of which were illegal, are causing other countries, other areas surrounding Russia and other places that also once “belonged” to the U.S.S.R. to fear the worst. What is being done and what should be done to be more proactive and prevent these areas from also falling to Russian annexation?

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Mr. James Bezan

Oct/3/22 6:15:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with the member that more needs to be done, especially on the diplomatic front. I am always worried about some of those eastern European countries, former members of the Soviet Union, that are not members of NATO. They do not have the luxury of an attack on one being an attack on all. Article 5 does not apply to places such as Moldova and Georgia. I have already seen nefarious actions from Russian players, whether from the state itself or individuals who continue to undermine their own democracies and economies. We need to continue to stand with those countries and find ways to strengthen them, knowing that right now the west is spread pretty thin in trying to deal with the Russian threat as well as what is going on in the South China Sea. We will have to continue to work collaboratively to find ways to support all member countries. Right now, the best thing we can do is defeat Russia in Ukraine. Then it would not be that big of a threat to all the rest of the nations in the region.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Oct/3/22 6:16:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this is my first opportunity to enter into this debate having listened to it all afternoon. I want to thank the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman and many members of this place, such as the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and the member for Etobicoke North. We heard many strong denunciations. The member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount spoke too. We, here, are quite united in condemning what Putin has done. There seems to be some uncertainty and cautions are being expressed about who committed the sabotage under the Baltic Sea in three separate places of the Nord Stream pipeline, which led to methane releases. Does the hon. member have any conclusive areas to point us to in explaining that sabotage?

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Mr. James Bezan

Oct/3/22 6:17:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is no evidence yet to determine who did it. There are only a few countries that have the capabilities to fire upon a pipeline that deep in the sea. As the member said, it was in three places. It would not surprise me if it was a false flag operation done by Russia itself. It has already rejected the turbines from Canada. They were erroneously provided back to Gazprom and have been able to pump more natural gas from Russia into Germany and the rest of Europe. I would not be surprised if Vladimir Putin, who is famous for doing false flag operations, actually orchestrated this one as well.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay (South Surrey—White Rock, CPC)

Oct/3/22 6:18:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will begin my remarks with a message for Vladimir Putin. It is the same message that the Right Hon. Stephen Harper delivered when he met with Mr. Putin at the G20 in November 2004, following the annexation of Crimea. The message is this: “You need to get out of Ukraine.” At the time, Vladimir Putin denied the presence of Russia in Crimea. Now, almost eight years later, there certainly can be no denial. Canada did not buy his lies then, and in the wake of sham referendums last week, we do not buy them now. I want to thank the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development for their fourth report. It is a brief report but carries great significance. It reads as follows: That the committee condemns any attempts to hold referendums in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine; any such referendums have no legitimacy, the committee maintains its belief that Ukrainian national boundaries recognized at the time of the Budapest Memorandum remain Ukraine’s national boundaries today, and the committee report this motion to the House. I fully endorse the report from the committee and call upon every member of the House to do the same. We must send a strong and clear message from the Canadian House of Commons that Russian aggression in Ukraine is not acceptable. We must be unified in condemning the sham referendums held by Russia in the illegally occupied regions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. For our part, Conservatives will not now nor ever recognize these regions as Russian territory. Rather, these referendums have only served to redouble our commitment to Ukraine sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity. It should be noted that these referendums took place amid a collapsing western front as Ukrainians continue the brave defence of their homeland once again. However, the Russians are doubling down and are sticking to their dangerous military doctrine, namely the doctrine to escalate to de-escalate. The Russians have already raised the stakes by threatening the use of nuclear weapons should they be attacked in these occupied regions. These threats are not acceptable. The world has known the horrors of nuclear warfare and must not be subjected to it ever again. NATO has indicated that conventional forces will be used in response to such an attack in Ukraine. The Putin regime is even targeting its own civilians by sharpening repression at home, including conscription of minority communities. This sounds a lot like actions I learned about in Soviet studies courses during my undergraduate time. This territorial grab harkens back to, pick one, the Soviet days or the Russian imperial days. I have already been banned from Russia, something I wear as a badge of honour, so I will speak freely. The destruction that Vladimir Putin has inflicted upon Ukraine is nothing short of genocide. The horrific scenes of what Russia has left behind as Ukraine forces advance are nothing short of chilling. I recall bringing my father-in-law, a man of Ukrainian descent, to the Human Rights Museum in Winnipeg. I vividly remember the look on his face when he saw the statue of the starving child, representing the millions who starved because of Joseph Stalin, the dictator who engineered a food shortage in Soviet Ukraine in the 1930s. His goal, like Vladimir Putin's, was to destroy Ukrainian ambitions for independence and ensure Ukrainian subservience. As a result, millions of Ukrainians experienced desperate hunger and died. Today we are witnessing the same aggression we saw from Stalin during the Holodomor, and it must be blunted. Russia intends on using the so-called referendum results as justification for further aggression. They would have the world believe that they are defending what is theirs. However, Russia is the aggressor; Ukraine is the defender. Canada will always stand against dictatorial aggressors and stand with those defending themselves. Canada must do more to support Ukraine. In the short term, we must ensure that Ukraine is well armed and has the weapons it needs to defend itself. President Zelenskyy has asked for more arms, and Canada should be a reliable partner. We need to help Europe isolate Russia by supplying them with Canadian energy. We also need to remove our own domestic barriers to help Europe become energy independent from Russia. We should replace Russian oil and gas with a Canadian product that is produced with the highest environmental standards and respect for human rights. The Prime Minister violated his own sanctions against Putin by sending back a turbine so that the Russians could continue to pump gas into Germany, so while the Liberals are against pipelines in Canada, they are in favour of maintaining the turbines for Russian pipelines that fund Putin's war. Meanwhile, we have 1,300 trillion cubic feet of natural gas that could be used to free Europe from its dependency on Putin. Plus, we have the ability to produce it cleaner than anywhere else in the world. We should use our resources to help our security partners in Europe. We should also ensure that our own national security is fortified. Russia's extraterritorial target right now is Ukraine. What will Canada do when Russian turns its sights even further onto our Arctic and puts its 40 polar icebreakers against our one? Russia is aware that Canada has let its northern warning systems lapse, and NORAD modernization has to be elevated to urgent status, with the funds necessary to combat and detect modern warfare tactics and equipment. Canada has chronically underfunded NATO, something that should be corrected immediately. We are well below the 2% commitment made years ago, and repeated currently. This is another case of too much talk and not enough action. European countries such as Germany, Sweden and Finland have moved swiftly to deal with present threats, and Canada needs to do likewise. We need to do likewise now. Only now that Ukraine, especially its eastern oblasts, and parts of Europe are under threat is Canada starting to take its funding commitments seriously. These funding commitments mean better military equipment for our armed forces and mean helping with our flailing recruitment and retention. These funding commitments mean that Canada can continue to be counted on for the security of our own citizens as well as internationally. Right now, our allies are questioning our commitments and abilities. The Liberal government must get to work on these priorities right away. The path to greater support is clear. The only thing lacking is willingness. Although the government's foreign affairs minister has stated that Canada is just a middle power that is good at “convening”, Canadians know that we are also proud and fierce fighters, trainers and peacekeepers. We have shown our mettle internationally since Confederation, particularly during the last century when we were called up to go above and beyond. Today, many Ukrainians fighting for their country and their families credit the Canadian Armed Forces for the calibre of critical military training they learned under Operation Unifier. History will tell a very different story about Vladimir Putin than the one he tells himself. His legacy is one of lies, destruction, genocide and suffering. The world is uniting against him in a way not seen in a generation, demanding that he must withdraw from Ukraine and pay for his crimes. In the meantime, the House will condemn the sham referendums in Ukraine and give voice to those suffering under Putin's aggression. Slava Ukraini.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Oct/3/22 6:27:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have been listening very closely to the debate today on this critically important issue of the concurrence motion coming from the standing committee. To be very clear, the Government of Canada has been, in every way, very supportive in working with our allied countries and doing whatever we can to support Ukraine during these very difficult and trying times. I do not want to underestimate the importance of what we are witnessing overseas. It is very horrific. Ukraine is really paying a price. However, it is demonstrating to the world that through its heroes, it has been able to fight back against Russia. In good part, providing Canadian resources, financial and others, through programs such as Operation Unifier has made a difference. Other allied countries have done likewise, particularly the United States. Would the hon. member not agree that the coalition, the solidarity for Ukraine around the world and the support for our Ukrainian heroes fighting in the war have ultimately turned it around so that there is hope we will, in fact, be able to overcome it and that it is only a question of time?

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/3/22 6:28:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I absolutely agree that it is the coalition of the willing coming together and standing united against Russia's aggression that is helping Ukraine do what it is doing, but we can never underscore enough the bravery, the commitment and the heart of the Ukrainian people who are fighting, as I said, for their homeland and their families. We should be doing whatever we possibly can. My colleague mentioned more medical equipment and facilities. There is more that we can do. When I met with Ukrainian members of Parliament, they know what we can do and they are asking us to do even more.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Oct/3/22 6:29:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. This debate is important because of the risk this situation involves. I will make three comments. My colleague can respond to any of them. The current threat is not a reason to abandon the fight against climate change. Those are not my words but the words of UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres. Then my colleague talked about her experience in her Soviet studies courses. When I was younger, I studied the Chernobyl accident and its effects. The risks of the nuclear threat are not to be trifled with. Finally, I will conclude by reminding her of the importance of the coalition, as well as the importance of tackling disinformation, the kind of rhetoric that circulates, particularly in Russia, against the west. This kind of rhetoric is dangerous. As a former journalism student, I am particularly concerned about what is coming out in the media and the messaging coming from President Putin.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/3/22 6:30:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have lots of urgent issues facing our world and what we are talking about tonight is the threat of Russia against Ukraine, the genocide that is happening there, the cruelty and aggression that Russia has adopted. For Ukrainian people, it is about what they need right now. They need to win this war. They cannot lose this war for themselves or for all western democracies. They must win it, and we must do everything we can to make sure that happens.

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Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP)

Oct/3/22 6:31:38 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as many Ukrainians are fleeing this Russian war and entering Canada, so many in my riding of Nanaimo—Ladysmith are welcoming Ukrainians with open arms. Central Vancouver Island Multicultural Society is one such organization that is offering so many supports for those entering Canada. I am wondering if the member could share her thoughts on the importance of wraparound services and supports for Ukrainians entering Canada, so that they not only have barrier-free access to Canada for safety but also have the supports they need once they are here.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/3/22 6:32:26 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree that we should be doing everything we can to support Ukrainians who have come to Canada. There are many of them, but there could be more. Most of them do not want to stay in Canada, as much as they feel welcome here. They want to go home and have a peaceful country to rebuild and live in again.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Oct/3/22 6:33:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is my privilege to join in this debate today to condemn the referendums that have been held in the occupied territories of Ukraine. One of the things I want to get on the record is about natural gas or, as we call it, the “freedom energy” that Canada can provide to the world. We have seen over the years how the Liberal government has stood in the way of the production of Canadian natural resources and the export of natural gas around the world, the export of our freedom energy, as it were. Now we see the impacts of that when it comes to Europe, with its dependence on Russian gas and its somewhat hampered ability to provide aid to Ukraine because the Russians hold them ransom with natural gas. Also, there is the fact that the sale of natural gas funds the war. The sale of natural gas funds the Russian war machine. As Russian energy is sold around the world, that money comes back to Russia and that is what is allowing the Russians to maintain their war against Ukraine. That is what I wanted to get on the record here today: the fact that Russia is the aggressor in this instance and that Russia needs revenues in order to be able to maintain this war. I come from a part of the country that is well endowed with natural gas. I remember that before I was elected, in 2013 or 2014, Canada was talking about LNG. There was big support for LNG on both ends of the country. We could have been a first mover in that, and we could have led the world in that technology. We would have been able to provide both Europe and Asia with LNG. Unfortunately, due to government inaction, we have been unable to approve these projects and we have been unable to provide the world with the freedom energy that comes from the promised land, as I like to call it, in northern Alberta. Here we are today. We heard from the member for Etobicoke Centre about how Ukrainians feed 400 million people in the world, and that food is not getting to the rest of the world at this time. Canada has the opportunity to step up and provide more food to the world, but at the very time when the world is looking for more food, the Liberal government is talking about reducing the use of fertilizer in this country. Do members know what happens when we reduce the use of fertilizer? We lose food production. The use of fertilizer multiplies our food production by a factor of about three, so if we took away all the fertilizer we use, we would only get a third of the food production in this country. A warning to the world, in terms of the use of fertilizer, is the country of Sri Lanka. It has abolished the use of fertilizer and has basically destroyed its economy and starved its own people, so I would recommend that Canada does not go down that way. We can feed the world, and we can provide it with the freedom energy it needs.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/3/22 6:36:22 p.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House. The question is on the motion. If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division, or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair. The hon. member for South Surrey—White Rock.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay

Oct/3/22 6:37:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I request a recorded division.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Oct/3/22 6:37:07 p.m.
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Pursuant to an order made on Thursday, June 23, the division stands deferred until Tuesday, October 4, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions. The House will now resume with the remaining business under Routine Proceedings.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Oct/3/22 6:37:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am honoured to rise today to present two petitions. The first petition is e-3932, which calls on the government to address period poverty and to address the barriers vulnerable people in Canada have in accessing menstrual necessities and products. This petition calls for funding to be provided to provinces to administer free access to menstrual necessities and to ensure the provinces provide equal and accessible services for menstrual necessities. I am proud to table this petition in the House.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Oct/3/22 6:38:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the second petition is on a guaranteed livable income. This petition, e-3987, calls for the federal government to begin negotiations with the Government of P.E.I. to develop and implement a guaranteed livable income in P.E.I. and ensure that all federal transfers that support current provincially funded services and programs remain in place during these negotiations. I am proud to table it in the House.

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