44th Parl. 1st Sess.
December 6, 2022 10:00AM
Madam Speaker, I wonder if the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan would like to talk to all the people in his riding who got CERB benefits or CEBA loans and were able to get through the pandemic, and if he would then say it was irresponsible spending. I wonder if he would be prepared to do that.
Quite frankly, we are seeing a primary contrast in this House. When we support Canadians, the Conservatives say it is a waste of money. We are investing in Canadians. We got them through the pandemic. We did the right thing. We got supports to people who needed them the most.
If we are talking about getting to the fall economic statement, and if the Conservatives would actually have substantive debate on the issue, perhaps we could continue, but their number one objection is to the short title of the bill. It is absurd; it is dilatory, and we need to move on and get supports to Canadians.
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Mr. Speaker, I hold my colleague from Rimouski‑Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques in high regard and I thank him for his question.
To start, I am going to have to go back and read what I said. If, by any chance, I indicated that only young people benefited from CERB, I apologize. However, I do not believe that is what I said.
I still hear stories about the situation that occurred and that left a strong impression on many entrepreneurs and young people as well. Unfortunately, they did not have the pleasure and pride of working their first summer job and earning a living. No, they stayed home and received CERB. While it is true that some young people benefited from this money, they were not the only ones. Honestly, I do not think I went that far, but if I said they were the only ones, I apologize.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to raise the issue of what the civil service has been able to put together over the last couple of years. At a time when we had a worldwide pandemic, the development of the CERB program came from virtually nowhere, as we all know. When we take a look at issues such as employment insurance, we have seen a number of modifications to support Canadians to get them through our current situation. The minister herself has already indicated that we are looking at ways to make some additional changes to EI.
Would the member not agree that at the very least we have seen significant changes to date and that new programs have been there to support Canadians in a very real and tangible way? The CERB program helped over nine million Canadians.
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- Dec/6/22 2:22:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, today the Auditor General showed that there was terrible waste. According to her, the government wasted at least $4.6 billion. Moreover, it is believed that another $27 billion was wasted, and that should be investigated. The government even paid 1,500 inmates with CERB money.
Why did the government waste that money and cause massive inflation on the backs of Canadians?
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- Dec/6/22 2:23:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the government is now exposed for having wasted massive sums over the last several years. According to the Auditor General, there is $4 billion of known waste and another $27 billion of suspected waste. There is $60 million of spending that is under criminal investigation. There were 190,000 people who quit their jobs and therefore were not eligible to receive the CERB benefit but did anyway. They even sent the CERB to 1,500 prisoners.
Why did the government waste so much and make Canadians pay the price?
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- Dec/6/22 2:23:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General found, very clearly, that CERB and our individual benefits achieved their intended goals of getting money to Canadians quickly, of allowing Canadians to stay home safely and of avoiding severe social and economic consequences.
We, as a Parliament, approved an attestation-based approach. We knew from the beginning that there would be postpayment verification. We are working methodically through that, and I can assure all Canadians that we are on top of this.
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- Dec/6/22 2:25:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the government is delivering for inmates. It sent CERB cheques to 1,500 inmates who were serving time in prison for committing crimes. They were not eligible for the CERB. The Liberals also gave the CERB to 190,000 people who had voluntarily left their jobs and were not eligible. The government wasted $30 billion, and we also know that criminal investigations are under way.
Will the government finally launch an investigation to recover the money that Canadians lost?
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- Dec/6/22 2:34:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will get to the hon. member's question in a moment.
I want to add my voice to that of the Minister for Women and Gender Equality and others in the House today on this 33rd anniversary of École Polytechnique. I was a 19-year-old student at the U of A when word got to us that 14 women were gunned down at École Polytechnique. It became worse when we realized it was motivated by hate and misogyny. We must do everything in the House to protect women and end violence against women.
On the substantive question the hon. colleague asked, millions of mothers who received CERB benefits did not cause inflation, and neither did the businesses that took supports so they could keep their doors open.
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- Dec/6/22 2:38:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, our approach is based on compassion, responsibility and fiscal prudence.
If we look at the facts, millions of mothers who received CERB did not create inflation, and neither did the thousands of businesses that took wage subsidies.
If the Conservatives truly, from the bottom of their hearts, want to help Canadians get through these difficult times, they can do the right thing and vote for Bill C‑32, which will benefit Canadians.
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- Dec/6/22 3:00:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, let me state once again that we thank the Auditor General for her report and that we respect her work, but let us look at what her report said. The pandemic benefits prevented an increase in poverty that would almost have doubled without our investments, and they helped the economy bounce back from the effects of the pandemic. CERB allowed 8.9 million Canadians to be supported through the depths of the pandemic, and the wage subsidy kept 5.38 million people on the payroll.
We have already recuperated $2.3 billion. The system will continue to work, and we will continue to have the backs of Canadians.
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- Dec/6/22 3:06:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we thank the Auditor General for her report and we have great respect for her work. Let us look at a few facts from that report. The supports provided during the pandemic prevented an increase in poverty. The CERB program supported 8.9 million Canadians and the wage subsidy kept more than 5.3 million people employed. It was the compassionate thing to do. We did it for Canadians, and it was the right thing to do.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my wonderful colleague for his question, which allows me to elaborate on my comments.
The $23 billion that the Auditor General mentioned is likely money that could be allocated to the various programs we were talking about earlier.
What worries me even more is that, at the moment, the government is checking whether CERB was paid out to the right people. People are being asked to pay the government back, then the government realizes that it was correct after all and gives the money back to them. Meanwhile, the Titanic is headed for the iceberg.
During the pandemic, we suggested that the government should be careful about handing out the CERB. It has access to the annual income of anyone who pays taxes, so it could have easily directed supports to where they were needed most, and we would not have the problems we are facing today. We would be much further ahead.
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